'Aztlan': The End Of America

Originally Posted by Scarabeo

And you live in Costa Mesa, California...hmmmm, how did it get that Spanish name I wonder....also, I am pretty sure that most economists will agree that the "illegals" add almost 2 billion dollars to the California economy yearly.....and btw, when my Italian grandparents emigrated to the US, they faced this same bigoted bile that you are now spewing all over this forum....

What does the name of the city I live in have to do with this? LMAO!

With regard to your rather bold statement that illegal aliens "add almost 2 billion dollars to the California economy yearly," pease supply references to back that up. Take all the time you want. I'm really sorry your Italian grandparents suffered when they immigrated to this country. Did they come here illegally, or legally? Did they crawl through tunnels, cross the border under the cover of darkness or come accross stuffed into a spare tire?

"Bigoted bile," eh? Wow, you sound like you're carrying around some major resentments. Maybe you need a meeting?

Originally Posted by shimshimhada

America. After my parents legally immigrated here, I was born in NY. I'm all for legal immigration, which has been said by a lot of people 1000000000x already. But some people can't seem to differentiate between illegal and legal.

We have enough poor legal citizens here already, we don't need more coming through our borders with no permission.

Obviously our friend Scarabeo doesn't understand the difference. That's pretty clear!

Originally Posted by Scarabeo

I would not lose any sleep over this issue - the genie is out of the bottle and there is no going back...in the grand scheme of things - so what? I hate to go down the metaphysical/existential road, but some day you will be dead - and you will have spent your whole life worrying about such a trivial issue...put yourself in their shoes for a moment...pretty sobering...

Wow, I just put myself in their shoes for a moment! Oh my God! All of the sudden I want to give the country away to poor and uneducated Illegal Aliens! Now I see what you mean! What was I thinking? And spewing all that "bigoted bile" everywhere, shame on me!

[ska///235i]

Dude...the city you're living in right now belongs to the spanish people
You're the illegal immigrant fool

If this really bothers you...then do something about it. Go start your own movement...dont just start a thread like this and piss ppl off

Originally Posted by CMD

What does the name of the city I live in have to do with this? LMAO!

[canucklion]

it's not cool to GENERALIZE, he is calling you a biggot because you generalize a whole group of people, anyways, aren't you a MD, aren't you suppose to be somewhat edumacated?

[canucklion]

anyways, I'm just here to stir some shit, it's your problem, not in Canada, so it's all good to me whatever you guys want to do

[shimshimhada]

The Great Wall it is!

[DLJJ3399]

CMD your signature really is in poor taste.

If you're really that frustrated. Try to fix your issue with the problem in a constructive and positive way.

Calling everyone that's illegal a criminal isn't fair or right.

Until we've walked in someone elses shoes we should reserve our comments and treat each other with respect and like human beings.

You should know better!

[Scarabeo]

Originally Posted by DLJJ3399

CMD your signature really is in poor taste.

If you're really that frustrated. Try to fix your issue with the problem in a constructive and positive way.

Calling everyone that's illegal a criminal isn't fair or right.

Until we've walked in someone elses shoes we should reserve our comments and treat each other with respect and like human beings.

You should know better!

Well said...:rocks: My friends, where is your compassion for the down trodden, people who have lost all hope and see the US as a beacon of light, as so many of our ancestors have? Shame on you....and US foreign policy, for making a mess in Latin America...

Originally Posted by Scarabeo

America is the land of plenty - are they taking food from your mouth? Me thinks not...trust me, if this illegal immigration were not needed, the borders would have been shut down a long time ago....a lot of these poor people toil in backbreaking jobs, fight our wars - I will close by quoting a Rolling Stones song - "Let's drink to the hard working people, let's drink to the salt of the earth"....

Illegals are "needed" by Big Business which exploits them for huge profits. Otherwise, they are definitely not needed. It's our government, under the direction of Big Business that allows this bullshit to continue.

Originally Posted by shimshimhada

I bet Mexico has WMDs, only one way to deal with them.

Shim, Mexico does have WMDs, they're coming here by the thousands every night under the cover of darkness!

Originally Posted by canucklion

everyone in North American is an immigrant, just because your European ancestors bullied the Natives first, doesn't give you the right to call it 'your home and no one else's"

Like Scarabeo said, there are more serious matters to worry about

Yeah, you're right, screw national borders. You Canadians don't mind either, do you?

Originally Posted by Scarabeo

If I recall correctly, most of the southern US did belong to Mexico before it was taken away from them in a land grab....

The United States purchased the land from Mexico. It was not a land "grab." So, no, you don't recall correctly.

Originally Posted by needforspeed

Mate - what is this all about? - I'm pretty new to this forum and I have already seen you post 3 things about illegal (and legal) immigrants.

And now I see that you feel the need to make a comment on this in all your posts by including an extremely bigoted and stereotyped reference to illegal immigrants in your sig.

This is supposed to be a car forum - I know this is the off topic section, but I still don't think this is the right place for you to publicise your rather narrow views.

You live in the richest country in the world. By an accident of birth (or because you are an immigrant yourself) you have found yourself in an incredibly fortunate position. If you are not an immigrant - then I can be sure that your recent ancestors were - everyone in the USA is an immigrant.

So now you have everything - yet you don't seem to understand why poor non-americans want to move to your country for a chance of a better life.

The situation isn't fair - but recognise this - the argument against immigration is simple. Those who have everything - don't want to lose any of it by sharing it with those who have little.

I'm not saying this is wrong or right - but the immigration issue is fundamentally an immoral one.

Why not find an alternative outlet for your immigration posts and post some jokes or car stuff here instead.

I think you need to start over, we're talking ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION here. NOT immigration. There is a HUGE difference, in case you were not aware.

Originally Posted by ska

Dude...the city you're living in right now belongs to the spanish people
You're the illegal immigrant fool

If this really bothers you...then do something about it. Go start your own movement...dont just start a thread like this and piss ppl off

ska, you don't need to read this thread or view the video link I posted. If you disagree with me, then ignore the thread.

All I did is POST A FREAKING LINK, and everyone is all over me calling me a bigot.

I posted a link, people.

Originally Posted by canucklion

it's not cool to GENERALIZE, he is calling you a biggot because you generalize a whole group of people, anyways, aren't you a MD, aren't you suppose to be somewhat edumacated?

The group of people I'm generalizing are ILLEGAL ALIENS. What, exactly, is bigoted about that. Splain that to me Lucy.

Originally Posted by BadBob

That photo is freaking hilarious!

[NFS]

Originally Posted by CMD

I think you need to start over, we're talking ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION here. NOT immigration. There is a HUGE difference, in case you were not aware.

I understand that you are talking about illegal immigration, but the difference between this and legal immigration is not so great.

America is a great place to live and anyone fortunate enough to be an american citizen is hugely lucky.

Lots of poor people all over the world want a part of that good fortune and most have no chance at all of entering the USA legally.

That's why you have a problem with illegal immigrants - it's not because these people are bad or that they are criminals in a moral sense, it is simply that they want to improve their lives and the only way they can is to break a law.

So long as the american dream and high standard of living remains - the USA will have a problem with illigal immigrants. There is no legislative or political solution to this.

I'm pleased you've changed your sig to make it less stereotypical, but still don't get why you are so 'hung up' on this issue.

IMO most people who LEAD a campaign against immigration are inherently racist, that is to say that they believe that their personally held stereotypes about a race of people are a true representation of that race. These people use statistics and emotive argument to play on less bigotted peoples fears convincing them that immigration (legal and illegal) threatens their way of life and personal wealth. These people FOLLOW the racists, but are not necessarily racists themselves - just scared.

That's how the BNP operate in the UK and it's something I find very sad.

Anyway - you are entitled to your views I'm just troubled by the fact that this one issue seems to occupy you so much. Illegal immigrants are not waiting on every corner to take your job. However, they are being exploited and by opportunists who make extra money by getting them to do the jobs no-one else wants for less than the minimum wage. If you want to compaign against THOSE people you have my support.

[e90rocks]

I found it interesting to find out that in Canada, immigration is not exactly cheap. I don't have a problem with this, but I think it's a bit hypocritical to suggest that entry into US should be free to all when one charges their home and native land.

http://www.matrixvisa.com/pages/a_zo...mmigration.htm


Personally, I don't actually have a "great solution", though I favor some sort of deadline with amnesty for current immigrants (illegal and legal) and then stricter border controls, especially in the interests of national security. This would apply to all immigrants and travelers.

I work in medicine and find that the economic draw of America leads to the legal immigration of tremendously gifted individuals from all over the world. This is indeed what makes America great. There is a system for getting citizenship, and I don't see why Chinese and Indians have to have such a difficult time compared with Mexicans. (I have known Mexican Americans who have made great contributions as well). Everyone should be required to go through the same (albeit irritating) visa and citizenship rules. Actually, what I mean is that we should enforce these rules, somehow. We have a really long border with lots of holes. Understanding that 100% effectiveness is not feasible is not the same thing as decontrolling the border.

Finally, I have read CMD's posts for several months. I don't think it's fair to call him a bigot just because he opposes illegal immigration. I have read nothing which supports that accusation, and think he is owed an apology.

[Scarabeo]

Originally Posted by CMD

The United States purchased the land from Mexico. It was not a land "grab." So, no, you don't recall correctly.

CMD - A little history lesson for you...this passage is from Encarta:


The Mexican War was a straightforward land–grab.

There was ample reason for that suspicion. While Polk compromised with Britain on the Oregon boundary, he stood adamant against Mexico on the question of Texas. Mexico warned that it would consider the annexation of Texas by the United States a declaration of war. A Texas convention voted to join the Union on July 4, 1845. Polk and a Congress strongly favoring annexation not only offered to take Texas into the Union, they also set the southern boundary of the new state at the Rio Grande—150 miles south of what most people had agreed was the Texas–Mexico border. The new boundary gave Texas far more Mexican land (including much of present-day New Mexico and Colorado) than the Texas Revolution had given it. Polk knew that the additional territory would provide a gateway to New Mexico and California, territories of northern Mexico that he and other expansionists coveted along with Texas. While annexing Texas, Polk offered to buy New Mexico and California from Mexico for $30 million in late 1845—an offer that the Mexicans angrily refused. Polk then provoked a war with Mexico in which he would win all that he had offered to buy.

As Mexico prepared for war, Polk sent troops into the disputed area north of the Rio Grande. Mexico sent troops north of the Rio Grande and in spring 1846 fought a skirmish in which the Americans suffered more than a dozen casualties. Congress declared war on Mexico that May. Near–unanimous congressional support for the declaration hid the fact that most Whigs and many Northern Democrats were deeply suspicious of a Southern war to annex new territory for slavery.

In the war the Americans launched a three–pronged offensive. General Zachary Taylor invaded northern Mexico from Texas, capturing the city of Monterrey in September 1846. A second American army under General Stephen Kearny occupied Santa Fe in August of that year. Kearny then sent part of his force to join Taylor at Monterrey and marched the rest of his army west to California, where American settlers had already established an independent “Bear Flag Republic.” At the same time, the U.S. Navy seized California ports.

Having lost Texas, California, New Mexico, and large portions of Chihuahua and Sonora in northern Mexico, the Mexicans marched toward Taylor’s army near Monterrey. Taylor held off determined attacks by a Mexican army about three times as large as his own and won the Battle of Buena Vista in February 1847. The next month the third prong of the U.S. offensive was launched when General Winfield Scott landed at Veracruz. Five months later he had fought his way to Mexico City.

As happened in much of the war, the Mexican army was larger and fought bravely, but the Mexican government and high command were divided and often incompetent, and the Americans were better armed and better led. In particular, the Mexicans had no answer to American artillery. After a series of bloody battles in September 1847, Scott’s army occupied Mexico City, and the war was over.

The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848 ceded Texas (with the Rio Grande boundary), California, and New Mexico to the United States, which agreed to pay Mexico $15 million. The Mexican Cession gave the United States present–day west Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California, Nevada, Utah, most of Colorado, and part of Wyoming. The northern third of Mexico had become the southwestern quarter of the United States.

The Mexican War was a straightforward land–grab. The ease with which the United States won and the arrogance with which it behaved created a distrustful and sometimes violent southern border area for the country. More immediately, the lands ceded by the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo became the object of contest and resentment between the slave and free states—a conflict that would widen into the American Civil War 13 years later.

[Scarabeo]

Originally Posted by e90rocks

I found it interesting to find out that in Canada, immigration is not exactly cheap. I don't have a problem with this, but I think it's a bit hypocritical to suggest that entry into US should be free to all when one charges their home and native land.

http://www.matrixvisa.com/pages/a_zo...mmigration.htm


Personally, I don't actually have a "great solution", though I favor some sort of deadline with amnesty for current immigrants (illegal and legal) and then stricter border controls, especially in the interests of national security. This would apply to all immigrants and travelers.

I work in medicine and find that the economic draw of America leads to the legal immigration of tremendously gifted individuals from all over the world. This is indeed what makes America great. There is a system for getting citizenship, and I don't see why Chinese and Indians have to have such a difficult time compared with Mexicans. (I have known Mexican Americans who have made great contributions as well). Everyone should be required to go through the same (albeit irritating) visa and citizenship rules. Actually, what I mean is that we should enforce these rules, somehow. We have a really long border with lots of holes. Understanding that 100% effectiveness is not feasible is not the same thing as decontrolling the border.

Finally, I have read CMD's posts for several months. I don't think it's fair to call him a bigot just because he opposes illegal immigration. I have read nothing which supports that accusation, and think he is owed an apology.

Excuse me, did you happen to read his sig?

[e90rocks]

Originally Posted by Scarabeo

Excuse me, did you happen to read his sig?

If you mean "criminals by definition", I believe it means

"Illegal" => noncompliant with law=> "criminal".

It doesn't refer to race at all, although I will admit that the language is deliberately inflammatory. Perhaps there was a previous sig to which you are referring? I think that once you change your sig on this forum it changes everywhere and retroactively on all posts.

Personally I find the implication (that I am mentally unstable) in BadBob's sig to be inflammatory.