My E90 M3 Dedicated Track build (with pix!)

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

Going to be bouncing around your neck of the woods since they are still letting us Texans in for now

ahhhhhh riiiiiiight. I forgot about that.

[dogbone]

(I figured out how to give ABS to the M3 GT2 on the AC server. Yay! So the cars will have ABS in the races.)

[dogbone]

Week 1 of the July 2020 Dogbone Racing Series is complete! Visited COTA. It was a night marked by restarts. Normally, I don't restart races......buuuuut, two race restarts were required. The first restart came from someone logging into the server 4 turns into the race. We all decided to start over to include him so we restarted. Then after the second start, during the middle of the race, the game server mysteriously booted 4 out of the 6 people from the race....never saw that happen before.....so we restarted for a third race, but with less laps. We got through the 3rd race.

The M3 E92 GT2 is new to us and is an interesting platform to drive. When I first started driving it, I hated it---especially with no ABS. Once ABS was added onto the car, I was liking it a whole lot more. I'm fine with it now.

tsk94 continues to drive solidly. He won both qualifying and the race.

(Ti-Jean got disqualified by the game because he cut the last corner and didn’t have time to slow down to serve the penalty before the finish line. I’m giving him 6th place points because we had so many restarts, who knows if that would have happened in an earlier race.)



(I’m considering moving the results of the online racing results to a new thread over in the Sim sub-forum.)

[WhiteM3EMC]

Originally Posted by dogbone

There is a certain ride height that I attempt to achieve regardless of what springs are on the car. The ride height itself is not based on super science, but it's one that has worked well for me, so whenever we change something like springs or the weight of the car, we try to get it back there as much as is reasonable. With new springs, there seems to be a small bit of settling that occurs after "breaking" the springs in over a day or two. So, we watch that too.

As far as camber goes, I ALWAYS run with max camber--basically as far as I can slam inwards--on the Vorshlag camber plates. What degree of camber that ends up being is not important to me. The more camber I put, the more I can save the front tire edges. It ends up measuring between -3.9 and -4.1º of camber in the front. (I run about -2.2º rear.) I run such fat front tires, that I always have good braking grip, so I'm not worried much about camber there, and tons of camber seems to stick very nicely in turns. But, the first time on the stiff springs, I had not re-aligned the car. So, I had an alignment done to make sure the settings were where I wanted them. It didn't help at all.

I have my own nitrogen rig, so I can accurately adjust nitrogen pressure in the JRZ remote canisters. With the stiffer springs, I lowered the nitrogen pressure to allow the damper to move more easily. Did not help.

Then, of course, there is the Rebound and Compression settings. You're doing a lot of fighting when a car feels both understeer in the front AND at the same time feels edgy in the rear. Basically, go slow and the rear wants to step out; go fast and the front understeers away from you. I was fighting multiple battles at the same time more than I was with the softer springs.

I decided to concentrate most of my effort on trying to solve the understeer at high speeds. I figured I could manage the throttle enough to deal with low speed step-outs from the rear. But I needed the car to stick on high speed cornering stuff. There's no "adjusting" your driving inputs if the car won't turn at high speed.....you just gotta slow down.

I was trying many things, but mainly, I was gradually backing the rebound down on all 4 corners (more in the front) trying to reduce the edginess/jitteriness. And I was lowering compression in the front more than the rear. So, I was reducing the settings overall, but more in the front. I would try several rounds of adjustment. The lower I went, the more grip I seemed to regain. So, it worked to some extent and I got a bit more speed back on Riverside, but an unpleasant floaty feel appeared. It started to give me a "disconnected" feeling which I did not like at all. I am used to the JRZ giving me a very connected feeling. This connected feeling was reduced as I slowed the dampers down. And, the side effect of trying to solve the understeer at high speeds is that I was making the low speed oversteer possibilities even worse.....so, the whole thing was just not working out....I still wasn't as fast in Riverside at Buttonwillow and I didn't like the feel.

I had hoped that by increasing front and rear spring rates by exactly the same percentage that the car would retain some of it's balance, but it was just an unwieldy beast. Riverside at Buttonwillow is my high speed rounder test. I know the speeds and the feel there. It was ugly entering Riverside and it was just as ugly at apex and ugly again after the apex. The car was just ignoring my steering inputs. I'm like, ok---we're running out of track here....you better turn soon car!

Anyway, returning to the 600 lbs springs in the front was absolutely the right thing to do for me. It was magical when I put them back on. And I'm glad to have 100 lbs more rate in the back. Going from 800 to 900 lbs in the rear is a fairly subtle change, but I like it. I get just a little bit more support back there. I think the 900's hold up a bit better under the wing's downforce and the car feels good on acceleration, so I believe this is where I'll stay for the foreseeable future with spring rates.

Sorry to dig up such an old post, but I saw this and was curious.

Do you give any consideration to what your toe does when you slam the plates? Obviously adjusting camber has an effect on toe, so I've found myself hesitant to slam the camber plates all the way in. I guess in the spirit of experimentation, the obvious answer would be to just give it a shot and see what happens.

For background, I'm on NT01s, stock suspension, no aero, and no blower. So quite a big difference in car setup. As of right now, my alignment is about -2.5 degrees up front with slight toe in (I think, don't have the alignment sheet in front of me)

Do you still think I'd see benefit from just slamming the plates over to max camber? I haven't noticed any increased wear on the shoulder of my tires, but, I would definitely do it if there wouldn't be any extreme adverse effects from the change in toe and I could gain some grip for the corners.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by WhiteM3EMC

Sorry to dig up such an old post, but I saw this and was curious.

Do you give any consideration to what your toe does when you slam the plates? Obviously adjusting camber has an effect on toe, so I've found myself hesitant to slam the camber plates all the way in. I guess in the spirit of experimentation, the obvious answer would be to just give it a shot and see what happens.

For background, I'm on NT01s, stock suspension, no aero, and no blower. So quite a big difference in car setup. As of right now, my alignment is about -2.5 degrees up front with slight toe in (I think, don't have the alignment sheet in front of me)

Do you still think I'd see benefit from just slamming the plates over to max camber? I haven't noticed any increased wear on the shoulder of my tires, but, I would definitely do it if there wouldn't be any extreme adverse effects from the change in toe and I could gain some grip for the corners.

I was at a laser alignment shop years ago, and I asked the tech if he could align the car with max camber, and then once the alignment was finished, if he could go to minimum camber so we could see the toe change. He did it. The change in toe was very minimal—-something like 0.02 change. So when the car was still a street driven car, I would have the alignment done for the max camber track setting, and then when the car was in “street mode”, I would just pull the camber plates to minimum camber. Who cares what the toe is for street driving anyway? I didn’t. This always worked well for me. I saved the outer tire edges on track, and it saves my inner tire edges on the street.

I like the crispness of the sharp turn in with high camber. And braking never has been an issue for me with max camber, so I never saw any downsides to it. I used to take two floor jacks with me to the track so I could change the camber at the track so that I didn’t punish the street tires driving 250 miles to the track and back. (Track tires were in the back seat.) I’m actually back to doing this with my E92. Been to the track twice in the last couple weeks with the E92.

[WhiteM3EMC]

Originally Posted by dogbone

I was at a laser alignment shop years ago, and I asked the tech if he could align the car with max camber, and then once the alignment was finished, if he could go to minimum camber so we could see the toe change. He did it. The change in toe was very minimal—-something like 0.02 change. So when the car was still a street driven car, I would have the alignment done for the max camber track setting, and then when the car was in “street mode”, I would just pull the camber plates to minimum camber. Who cares what the toe is for street driving anyway? I didn’t. This always worked well for me. I saved the outer tire edges on track, and it saves my inner tire edges on the street.

I like the crispness of the sharp turn in with high camber. And braking never has been an issue for me with max camber, so I never saw any downsides to it. I used to take two floor jacks with me to the track so I could change the camber at the track so that I didn’t punish the street tires driving 250 miles to the track and back. (Track tires were in the back seat.) I’m actually back to doing this with my E92. Been to the track twice in the last couple weeks with the E92.

Good to know! The car really doesn't get driven on the street but once a week to keep the fluids moving, and I tow it to the track. I actually sold the street ZCP wheels so now the car permanently sits on the NT01s.

I am impressed with the back seat capacity of this car! (275) width tires in the back seat side by side, which is how I used to go to and from the track. Picked up a truck and trailer once the half cage went in, no way 4 tires were going in the back with a full X in the main hoop and rear brace.

I think I'll jam the camber plates over all the way next time I go to the track and see how I like it. I did it once for a few laps a while back but I was being overly paranoid about the change in toe. Very nice to hear that the camber change is that minimal. Thanks for your response, thorough as always.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by WhiteM3EMC

Good to know! The car really doesn't get driven on the street but once a week to keep the fluids moving, and I tow it to the track. I actually sold the street ZCP wheels so now the car permanently sits on the NT01s.

I am impressed with the back seat capacity of this car! (275) width tires in the back seat side by side, which is how I used to go to and from the track. Picked up a truck and trailer once the half cage went in, no way 4 tires were going in the back with a full X in the main hoop and rear brace.

I think I'll jam the camber plates over all the way next time I go to the track and see how I like it. I did it once for a few laps a while back but I was being overly paranoid about the change in toe. Very nice to hear that the camber change is that minimal. Thanks for your response, thorough as always.

Let us know how it goes!

Here‘s my E92 last weekend at Pikes Peak Int’l Raceway. You can see one jack in the foreground and the jack pole of the second jack behind the car.

It’s funny to be back to the good ‘ole days of tracking.

[WhiteM3EMC]

Originally Posted by dogbone

Let us know how it goes!

Here‘s my E92 last weekend at Pikes Peak Int’l Raceway. You can see one jack in the foreground and the jack pole of the second jack behind the car.

It’s funny to be back to the good ‘ole days of tracking.

Love it! I'd so love to be back to tracking. Military is being very cautious with letting us go out and do basically anything. Trying to keep the mission preserved and all that. Hoping to get to Roebling Road in September.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by WhiteM3EMC

Love it! I'd so love to be back to tracking. Military is being very cautious with letting us go out and do basically anything. Trying to keep the mission preserved and all that. Hoping to get to Roebling Road in September.

Yeah, I can understand why they're limiting your outside activities. Crazy times out there. One of my composers got it.......nasty. Was video chatting with him in the hospital for several days while he had oxygen forced up his nose.

What I'm doing with the E92 now is how I started with the E90 in 2012. With the E92, it's nostalgic to be back to driving to the track with a set of wheels in the back seat. High Plains Raceway is only an hour away. I can go in the AM----don't even have to leave super early to get there for the driver meeting. Then drive on track for half the day and be back home before 2PM. These days with my E90, it's a plane flight from CO to CA to fetch the rig, and then straight to a race shop to do maintenance and tires, then multiple days of hotels and a bunch of hours driving the trailer, then wrapping everything up and flying back to CO. Don't get me wrong----I do enjoy doing my thing with the E90. It's just funny to see how much lower commitment the local E92 is. I think I'll head out to High Plains next week again because it's just so easy!

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by dogbone

[

High Plains Raceway is only an hour away. I can go in the AM----don't even have to leave super early to get there for the driver meeting. Then drive on track for half the day and be back home before 2PM.

This is how i feel about NYST, and therefore resist the expansion into other tracks 4 or more hours away. 1hr to the east - LRP, 1hr to the west - NYST. Not sure I need anything else for now.

[WhiteM3EMC]

Originally Posted by dogbone

Yeah, I can understand why they're limiting your outside activities. Crazy times out there. One of my composers got it.......nasty. Was video chatting with him in the hospital for several days while he had oxygen forced up his nose.

What I'm doing with the E92 now is how I started with the E90 in 2012. With the E92, it's nostalgic to be back to driving to the track with a set of wheels in the back seat. High Plains Raceway is only an hour away. I can go in the AM----don't even have to leave super early to get there for the driver meeting. Then drive on track for half the day and be back home before 2PM. These days with my E90, it's a plane flight from CO to CA to fetch the rig, and then straight to a race shop to do maintenance and tires, then multiple days of hotels and a bunch of hours driving the trailer, then wrapping everything up and flying back to CO. Don't get me wrong----I do enjoy doing my thing with the E90. It's just funny to see how much lower commitment the local E92 is. I think I'll head out to High Plains next week again because it's just so easy!

That's crazy! One day I'd love to pick up another E9X car. I'll probably do the opposite of you. I have a DCT E92 that I'm well into converting to a full track car, but I'd like to get a 6MT E90 and do some small track mods (coilovers/camber plates) and have that.

I can see how it would be a much bigger burden when your car is in a completely different state, as well. My car is sitting in my garage, so, even though it's trailered to the track, I always have access to it and can do whatever I need to do pre/post track in the coming weeks before the event.

As far as the activities limiting, I understand it, but it's frustrating because I know that I can go to a track day and be within 6 feet of absolutely nobody for the entire weekend. Though, I understand the Navy's blanket stance, allowing exceptions becomes a slippery slope. If anything, its saving me some money in the mean time. Also means that once its track season, I'm probably gonna toss a bunch of parts at the car at once.

[TMANN]

Originally Posted by dogbone

...
What I'm doing with the E92 now is how I started with the E90 in 2012. With the E92, it's nostalgic to be back to driving to the track with a set of wheels in the back seat. High Plains Raceway is only an hour away. I can go in the AM----don't even have to leave super early to get there for the driver meeting. Then drive on track for half the day and be back home before 2PM. These days with my E90, it's a plane flight from CO to CA to fetch the rig, and then straight to a race shop to do maintenance and tires, then multiple days of hotels and a bunch of hours driving the trailer, then wrapping everything up and flying back to CO. Don't get me wrong----I do enjoy doing my thing with the E90. It's just funny to see how much lower commitment the local E92 is. I think I'll head out to High Plains next week again because it's just so easy!

Dogbone - Somewhere in these 87 pages I missed the part where you shared that you have a SPARE E92 to use for occasional track days! Its funny because my wife is constantly dinging me for my using my E92 daily as my SPARE track car; primary is a trailered E36 M3 which as with any track car, can break once a season or so, hence the back-up!

For me, both of my M3's put up similar lap times, but get there in very different ways. The E36 is much more engaging and hard work, but ultimately is more fun, for now. People always come over to look under the hood, and surprised to see that little OLD S50 sitting in there. The E92 gets rave reviews for the noise it makes. Love them both for different reasons, alas I continue to be undecided on my path.

My question is, can you opine on the differences between your built E90 and daily E92? No need to go deep technically, just share how you feel on track. Is it X times more fun, is it worth the years and $$ investment? For all of us considering the full-prep route, there's the ever-present fun-to-$ quotient factor that might sway a decision on just how much to push the dial towards track prep.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by TMANN

Dogbone - Somewhere in these 87 pages I missed the part where you shared that you have a SPARE E92 to use for occasional track days!

My question is, can you opine on the differences between your built E90 and daily E92? No need to go deep technically, just share how you feel on track. Is it X times more fun, is it worth the years and $$ investment? For all of us considering the full-prep route, there's the ever-present fun-to-$ quotient factor that might sway a decision on just how much to push the dial towards track prep.

hehe yeah——I have a 2009 DCT E92 M3. It has a used set of JRZ RS Pro, my old Stillen AP Racing brakes from my track car and a set of track wheels with Pirelli DH scrubs. I just replaced the rod bearings in it at 91000 miles. I haven’t posted about it yet.

Regarding the differences between the E90 and the E92—man, they are REALLY different. The E90 is SO MUCH faster than the E92. If you want to put in the fast lap times, doing a proper build is the only way. For me the full build has been TOTALLY worth the time and effort.

-E92–no harness, no neck restraint, just seat belts. Holy cow. I feel like I’m floating.
-E92 is NA at 5000ft altitude. E90 supercharged at sea level. Uh yeah......that’s not the same experience.
-E92 is full weight. E90 is around 400lbs lighter than the E92. Very different for braking and cornering.
-E92 has no aero. E90 has full aero. Big difference in cornering.

hehe everything in the E92 sort of feels like it’s in slow motion compared to the E90. I’ve never been close to spinning in the E92. It’s so easy to catch by comparison.

So—-does that mean the E92 is no fun? Heck no!!! It’s fun as hell!!! The E9x M3 platform is super fun to drive. At PPiR, there was a C7 Corvette on Pirelli DH. The event was an SCCA time trial. Only the last two sessions counted for the competition. Once I finally learned the track, I beat the C7 in 98°F temps! Should my E92 be faster than a C7 on DH? No. But the point is the car can turn some good laps if you’re willing to toss it around. Good times!!

hehe—-because there’s no harness in the E92, I brace my left leg against the door for stability. This bruises the outside of my left knee. So, I wear a volleyball knee pad to protect the knee. I learned this tidbit years ago with my E90 before it had harnesses. It’s funny to be back doing that again. The last couple track days I keep forgetting it in the first session and then my knee is all sore in the first session. I don’t forget it in the 2nd session!!

[WhiteM3EMC]

Originally Posted by dogbone

So—-does that mean the E92 is no fun? Heck no!!! It’s fun as hell!!! The E9x M3 platform is super fun to drive. At PPiR, there was a C7 Corvette on Pirelli DH. The event was an SCCA time trial. Only the last two sessions counted for the competition. Once I finally learned the track, I beat the C7 in 98°F temps! Should my E92 be faster than a C7 on DH? No. But the point is the car can turn some good laps if you’re willing to toss it around. Good times!!

I'd be willing to bet that a decent amount of that C7 beating came down to the fact that you have a TON of seat time in the E9X platform. No disrespect at all to the E9X, I love mine, and also beat cars that I probably shouldn't, but let's not forget the fact that you're quite the experienced driver.

[HotM3x]

just happened onto your post as i am considering going down the rabbit hole with my e92 m3 and making it a more focused track toy. I have to say your e90 is impressive. I Can't imagine the money you have invested in it, but I can guess I don't have your budget. I don't think i have to stomach to gut mine like yours either , but I love the idea. even your E92 has better suspension and brakes than mine, but I'm looking at putting in a seat for the left knee issue like you have, and ive got a set of maxxis rc-1's ready when the federal rs-rr's are done. After that we will see what I can gather up for used stuff and upgrade on the "cheap" (ya right) if I can over time.

[TMANN]

Originally Posted by dogbone

...Regarding the differences between the E90 and the E92—man, they are REALLY different. The E90 is SO MUCH faster than the E92. If you want to put in the fast lap times, doing a proper build is the only way. For me the full build has been TOTALLY worth the time and effort.

So does that mean the E92 is no fun? Heck no!!! It’s fun as hell!!! The E9x M3 platform is super fun to drive...

hehe because there’s no harness in the E92, I brace my left leg against the door for stability. This bruises the outside of my left knee. So, I wear a volleyball knee pad to protect the knee...

Thanks for the insight, and the pro tip!

For me I'm just trying to be ready to make a decision if/when my old S50 in the E36 finally grenades. Whether to, as I did on the E36, repeat the multi-year track prep investment towards the E92? Or just throw a S54 into the E36 and call it a day? Good "problems" to have I know...

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by TMANN

Thanks for the insight, and the pro tip!

For me I'm just trying to be ready to make a decision if/when my old S50 in the E36 finally grenades. Whether to, as I did on the E36, repeat the multi-year track prep investment towards the E92? Or just throw a S54 into the E36 and call it a day? Good "problems" to have I know...

Having gone from an E36 M3 race car myself to now an E92, my vote is the E92.

Was debating the same thing, upgrade the E36 with an S54 or move onto a new car. Decided it was time for something new and went with the E92 - good decision. The only downside to the E92 coming from the E36 was the weight, it's heavier (quite a bit heavier) but you can run much bigger tires and the power is there compared to a S50. S54 E36 would be similar power to weight but coming from the S50 it will be a noticeable bump in power and torque. Overall the E92 platform is superior, better suspension geometry, better aero and an awesome engine.

That's my 2 cents at least

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by WhiteM3EMC

I'd be willing to bet that a decent amount of that C7 beating came down to the fact that you have a TON of seat time in the E9X platform. No disrespect at all to the E9X, I love mine, and also beat cars that I probably shouldn't, but let's not forget the fact that you're quite the experienced driver.

hehe yup, I conceded right away that my car shouldn't be faster than a C7 on DH. I simply brought it up because I was just at PPIR and had that experience. Obviously, the driver is a large part of the equation. The C7 guy in this case knew the track very well---has been going there for years. However, I heard he crashed a car there a couple years ago, so I'm sure that has to be in the back of his head. For my part, I had never been there. So, I was picking things up as fast as I could. And then boy did it get hot. There I was running my fastest times in the 98ºF heat simply because I was getting the track down. I would like to see what I could do in the early AM with some nice cool weather.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by HotM3x

just happened onto your post as i am considering going down the rabbit hole with my e92 m3 and making it a more focused track toy. I have to say your e90 is impressive. I Can't imagine the money you have invested in it, but I can guess I don't have your budget. I don't think i have to stomach to gut mine like yours either , but I love the idea. even your E92 has better suspension and brakes than mine, but I'm looking at putting in a seat for the left knee issue like you have, and ive got a set of maxxis rc-1's ready when the federal rs-rr's are done. After that we will see what I can gather up for used stuff and upgrade on the "cheap" (ya right) if I can over time.

yeah----I know the idea of gutting a car is extreme....especially doing it to a car you love. But I wanted the safety of a cage. And I didn't want to start over with another car, so for me, it was the logical choice. And a whole new world of possibilities opened up once the car was no longer a street car--things you just wouldn't do to a street car. But I totally understand why it's not the route for everyone. I won't go that route with the E92.

I'll tell ya what the line in the sand was for me in the E90: No aero unless full safety is in the car. And I wanted aero. As far as I'm concerned, aero makes the car faster at the most dangerous part of the track----the corner. I did not want to make the car faster in corners without the safety.

I always loved learning the "feel" of different tires. It's amazing how different the car acts on different rubber. Report back to us!

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by TMANN

Thanks for the insight, and the pro tip!

For me I'm just trying to be ready to make a decision if/when my old S50 in the E36 finally grenades. Whether to, as I did on the E36, repeat the multi-year track prep investment towards the E92? Or just throw a S54 into the E36 and call it a day? Good "problems" to have I know...

I'm glad tsk94 came on here and shared his experiences with both platforms. He and his dad have been quite active with both and they are hands on with their builds----literally doing everything.

I enjoy the E9x platform, but there is no doubt a sub-2500lbs E36 with tuned S54 power and full aero is a formidable track machine. No E9x can get near that weight. And a tuned S54 can get close to the E9x stock power. But as tsk94 mentioned, suspension geometries and other stuff factor into the equation as well.

Check back in let us know what you decide to do!

[dogbone]

I've been a bit behind. But I was finally able to put the results together of weeks 2+3 and things are very tight! First place to third place is separated by only two points! tsk94 missed week #2, and that has opened the door to Ti-Jean and Stevosport.lee.



Tomorrow concludes this 4 weeks series. We visit Spa. Should be interesting!

[Bartledoo]

Well, Tesla released another fastest four door at Laguna Seca record claim. Clearly they haven't heard of The Dogbone. Instead they just compare to production cars on street tires, even though their car is neither production nor on street tires.