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      10-13-2017, 06:02 PM   #529
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This will differ vastly based on who you ask in the US. I am more of a libertarian so I personally believe that the only functions of the US government should be homeland protection and infrastructure. The aid programs, most laws, etc should be left up to the individual states. I also believe we should not be meddling in all of the worlds affairs, it hasn't worked out for us so well in the past few decades.

I believe our government is already broken based on what it should be and how it was originally described. I believe we need to get out of our 2 party system because at this point they are pretty much the same thing with slightly different views on how to spend more money and make the federal government bigger.

The laws are a little more difficult, I feel like some of them are overarching and some are band aids. Seat belts for instance, I think wearing it should be your decision, although with the insurance angle I can see how it is an easy lever to reduce liability if you require people to wear them. I think it is silly to require people to wear seat belts in cars but not require motorcyclist to wear helmets and not have seat belts in children's school buses. Licensing of cars is more of a tax, you pay for registration to be able to use publicly maintained roads. If talking about driver's license, I agree with those and believe (similar to my thoughts on gun licenses) that you should need to take an operating test as well as the written test. I believe our speed limits would work better if our cops worked more like those in Germany, where they actually enforce the rules and target all dangerous drivers more than those just speeding (based on my limited time and knowledge of their system). I can't make it to work (~15 minute drive) without seeing at least 20 people on their phone while driving, and we even have a law saying it is illegal, it is just not enforced.

I realize that you may not think a tyrannical government is a possibility since your military "are people too", but history has shown multiple times that it can still happen.
Some pretty sound stuff in there. We know seat belts save lives though. Iím sure we can all point towards isolated instances where thatís not The case but on the whole they reduce lives lost.

In Australia we get 12 license points, getting caught on your mobile will cost you $400 and 4 demirrit points and trust me our cops take it very seriously. It used to be a swerving car meant a drunk driver, now it means iPhone or Samsung! And Iíll confess Iíve been guilty of this from time to time.

Itís funny because as soon as you start talking about other subjects everything seems totally normal and logical within reason And in line with the rest of your western buddies but the conversation on guns - itís jist another matter entirely.

IF you could get all the guns off the crims would you still want or feel the need to carry or own them?

If your answer to that is yes, then itís just as simple that and there will be no changing your minds. For better or worse.

If that scenario, realistic or not, changes your mind then I think thereís hope to disarm the population and reduce gun related homicide in The future.
If all of the guns were permanently removed from criminal hands then I wouldn't feel a need to conceal carry anymore, however I would still own guns. I live in a state which is mostly forest. I hunt so I need rifles for that. There's a chance that while I'm hunting a bear or wild hog comes after me so I carry handguns while I'm hunting too. But the 2nd Amendment is not about concealed carry or hunting, it is about being able to resist a tyrannical government, and for that you most certainly need the best weapons you can get your hands on, which are guns in this case. So in the scenario you posed, I would still own guns but I may not necessarily carry them with me in public.
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      10-13-2017, 06:12 PM   #530
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Originally Posted by sleeprequired View Post
Some pretty sound stuff in there. We know seat belts save lives though. Iím sure we can all point towards isolated instances where thatís not The case but on the whole they reduce lives lost.

In Australia we get 12 license points, getting caught on your mobile will cost you $400 and 4 demirrit points and trust me our cops take it very seriously. It used to be a swerving car meant a drunk driver, now it means iPhone or Samsung! And Iíll confess Iíve been guilty of this from time to time.

Itís funny because as soon as you start talking about other subjects everything seems totally normal and logical within reason And in line with the rest of your western buddies but the conversation on guns - itís jist another matter entirely.

IF you could get all the guns off the crims would you still want or feel the need to carry or own them?

If your answer to that is yes, then itís just as simple that and there will be no changing your minds. For better or worse.

If that scenario, realistic or not, changes your mind then I think thereís hope to disarm the population and reduce gun related homicide in The future.
The license system works different here based on what state you are in. A lot of states have points... mine is more of a relaxed version. You have to be pretty bad to lose your license.

If we could get guns away from all of the criminals I would not feel the need to carry my own. I would still own and practice with my rifles because that is a different topic all together (unless we are considering the politicians criminals... which isn't too far from the truth most of the time)
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      10-14-2017, 12:53 AM   #531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeprequired View Post
Some pretty sound stuff in there. We know seat belts save lives though. Iím sure we can all point towards isolated instances where thatís not The case but on the whole they reduce lives lost.

In Australia we get 12 license points, getting caught on your mobile will cost you $400 and 4 demirrit points and trust me our cops take it very seriously. It used to be a swerving car meant a drunk driver, now it means iPhone or Samsung! And Iíll confess Iíve been guilty of this from time to time.

Itís funny because as soon as you start talking about other subjects everything seems totally normal and logical within reason And in line with the rest of your western buddies but the conversation on guns - itís jist another matter entirely.

IF you could get all the guns off the crims would you still want or feel the need to carry or own them?

If your answer to that is yes, then itís just as simple that and there will be no changing your minds. For better or worse.

If that scenario, realistic or not, changes your mind then I think thereís hope to disarm the population and reduce gun related homicide in The future.
Me personally, I wouldn't carry. I do collect historic arms and enjoy the range. I would not want to loose that. However, I'm a big strapping dude. I could see where a woman or elderly person would want one for protection. A tazer is an option but what if there's more than one assailant. I don't know if that's stretching it but I bet quite a few Scandinavian women wish they had been carrying something.
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      10-14-2017, 03:38 AM   #532
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Me personally, I wouldn't carry. I do collect historic arms and enjoy the range. I would not want to loose that. However, I'm a big strapping dude. I could see where a woman or elderly person would want one for protection. A tazer is an option but what if there's more than one assailant. I don't know if that's stretching it but I bet quite a few Scandinavian women wish they had been carrying something.
Dual wield tazers! Yeah if they worked on Technology like that so that you could have a ranged 6 shooter it might help.

So basically you guys carry purely for protection? And then there’s hobby shooting/hunting.

I reckon the issue comes in with Things getting heated and people just happen to have a gun. Like concealed carrying and getting pissed at the pub. I wonder what the statistics are on intoxication and shootings.... that would be interesting.
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      10-14-2017, 03:54 AM   #533
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Me personally, I wouldn't carry. I do collect historic arms and enjoy the range. I would not want to loose that. However, I'm a big strapping dude. I could see where a woman or elderly person would want one for protection. A tazer is an option but what if there's more than one assailant. I don't know if that's stretching it but I bet quite a few Scandinavian women wish they had been carrying something.
Dual wield tazers! Yeah if they worked on Technology like that so that you could have a ranged 6 shooter it might help.

So basically you guys carry purely for protection? And then there’s hobby shooting/hunting.

I reckon the issue comes in with Things getting heated and people just happen to have a gun. Like concealed carrying and getting pissed at the pub. I wonder what the statistics are on intoxication and shootings.... that would be interesting.
Agreed, guns and alcohol don't mix. Here (and I'm sure other states as well) it's a BIG no-no to carry one in a pub or bar. Go directly to jail. Also If you have to use it in self defense and you've been drinking, even in your home, you're going to have a much harder time justifying your case and it may all go south on you.
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      10-14-2017, 10:49 PM   #534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeprequired View Post
Dual wield tazers! Yeah if they worked on Technology like that so that you could have a ranged 6 shooter it might help.

So basically you guys carry purely for protection? And then thereís hobby shooting/hunting.

I reckon the issue comes in with Things getting heated and people just happen to have a gun. Like concealed carrying and getting pissed at the pub. I wonder what the statistics are on intoxication and shootings.... that would be interesting.
As he said above, bars, banks, and government buildings are prohibited carry zones.
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      10-14-2017, 10:55 PM   #535
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have seen quite a few videos getting around of dudes carrying while playing drinking games and shit in their homes... just seems like a bad idea right from the get go.

the reply from the guy carrying is usually along the lines of "freedom / my right / fuck you commie..." which is pretty simplistic and retarded. Are there actual laws for carrying while under the influence anywhere in the US? or would it be more like... something goes bad, someone gets shot. shooter smells of booze. jail?
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      10-14-2017, 11:00 PM   #536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breno_Piece View Post
have seen quite a few videos getting around of dudes carrying while playing drinking games and shit in their homes... just seems like a bad idea right from the get go.

the reply from the guy carrying is usually along the lines of "freedom / my right / fuck you commie..." which is pretty simplistic and retarded. Are there actual laws for carrying while under the influence anywhere in the US? or would it be more like... something goes bad, someone gets shot. shooter smells of booze. jail?
yes, it is unlawful to carry while under the influence of alcohol or controlled substances in most (maybe all) US states.
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      10-15-2017, 02:25 AM   #537
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Yeah I get all that but not many murders with guns are taking the law into account. I was sort of getting at I can see where the trouble would start.
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      10-15-2017, 11:17 AM   #538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breno_Piece View Post
have seen quite a few videos getting around of dudes carrying while playing drinking games and shit in their homes... just seems like a bad idea right from the get go.

the reply from the guy carrying is usually along the lines of "freedom / my right / fuck you commie..." which is pretty simplistic and retarded. Are there actual laws for carrying while under the influence anywhere in the US? or would it be more like... something goes bad, someone gets shot. shooter smells of booze. jail?
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Originally Posted by sleeprequired View Post
Yeah I get all that but not many murders with guns are taking the law into account. I was sort of getting at I can see where the trouble would start.
I carry in bars and prohibited areas. But i haven't consumed alcohol in 23 years and i'm the first one out the door if there are signs of trouble.

Surely you've heard of the squeaky wheel gets the oil, right? We'll just like all the bad stuff in the world, these idiots are the only ones you hear about. You won't here me on video in a bar admitting that i'm carrying. You won't hear me or other people in videos, news clips, etc... stating how carrying a firearm is a huge responsibility and should trouble arise (bar fights, etc...) i'm the first headed towards the door, BECAUSE i'm carrying a firearm. I don't want any part of it. The MAJORITY of the concealed carriers in this county don't want any part of trouble when it breaks out. We carry for that .0001% chance we're confronted by someone intent on take our lives of the lives of our loved ones. Simple as that. None of us want to shoot someone. We all know our lives change forever the moment we shoot someone.

A concealed firearm is for the very last resort. Only but a handful of situations would i ever draw it to avoid confrontation. There are few situations where it's lawful to draw a firearm and even fire a warning shot to deescalate a situation. They are few and while the chances of being in them might be greater than running into someone who wants to take our lives, it's still in the .001% chance range.
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      10-15-2017, 11:33 AM   #539
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I carry in bars and prohibited areas. But i haven't consumed alcohol in 23 years and i'm the first one out the door if there are signs of trouble.

Surely you've heard of the squeaky wheel gets the oil, right? We'll just like all the bad stuff in the world, these idiots are the only ones you hear about. You won't here me on video in a bar admitting that i'm carrying. You won't hear me or other people in videos, news clips, etc... stating how carrying a firearm is a huge responsibility and should trouble arise (bar fights, etc...) i'm the first headed towards the door, BECAUSE i'm carrying a firearm. I don't want any part of it. The MAJORITY of the concealed carriers in this county don't want any part of trouble when it breaks out. We carry for that .0001% chance we're confronted by someone intent on take our lives of the lives of our loved ones. Simple as that. None of us want to shoot someone. We all know our lives change forever the moment we shoot someone.

A concealed firearm is for the very last resort. Only but a handful of situations would i ever draw it to avoid confrontation. There are few situations where it's lawful to draw a firearm and even fire a warning shot to deescalate a situation. They are few and while the chances of being in them might be greater than running into someone who wants to take our lives, it's still in the .001% chance range.
How about when you're biking? Are we going to see a headline "biker shot himself in the ass in a collision" one day?
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      10-15-2017, 12:04 PM   #540
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Do you carry a gas mask also?
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      10-15-2017, 02:32 PM   #541
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How about when you're biking? Are we going to see a headline "biker shot himself in the ass in a collision" one day?
Don't worry, i won't do anything to harm the booty.
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      10-15-2017, 02:35 PM   #542
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Don't worry, i won't do anything to harm the booty.
Glad to hear. I was worried.
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      10-16-2017, 03:08 PM   #543
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Itís funny because as soon as you start talking about other subjects everything seems totally normal and logical within reason And in line with the rest of your western buddies but the conversation on guns - itís jist another matter entirely.
That's because other topics don't concern Constitutionally protected rights and/or the ability of the populace to retain their freedom(s).

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeprequired
IF you could get all the guns off the crims would you still want or feel the need to carry or own them?

If your answer to that is yes, then itís just as simple that and there will be no changing your minds. For better or worse.
I'll take it a step further and say that IF we could go back in time and prevent firearms from ever being invented and/or proliferating then sure, we would probably live in a 'better' world now - but we can't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeprequired
If that scenario, realistic or not, changes your mind then I think thereís hope to disarm the population and reduce gun related homicide in The future.
I don't understand the fascination with gun-related homicide. Shouldn't we be trying to prevent ALL homicide? As sad and terrible as all these events are, I'm of the opinion that firearms do more to preserve innocent lives than they do to harm them.

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Originally Posted by sleeprequired View Post
I reckon the issue comes in with Things getting heated and people just happen to have a gun. Like concealed carrying and getting pissed at the pub. I wonder what the statistics are on intoxication and shootings.... that would be interesting.
It's illegal to consume alcohol while carrying here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Breno_Piece View Post
the reply from the guy carrying is usually along the lines of "freedom / my right / fuck you commie..." which is pretty simplistic and retarded. Are there actual laws for carrying while under the influence anywhere in the US? or would it be more like... something goes bad, someone gets shot. shooter smells of booze. jail?
Yes, and in most states it's even stricter than drinking and driving laws.

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Originally Posted by sleeprequired View Post
Yeah I get all that but not many murders with guns are taking the law into account. I was sort of getting at I can see where the trouble would start.
But that's just the thing, licensed concealed carriers are among the most law-abiding class of citizen we have. These are people who do take the laws into account and thus take steps to avoid the scenario you've envisioned entirely.
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      10-17-2017, 11:26 PM   #544
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Well said. ^^
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