Insurance salvage experience

[TomHudson]

This thread is to gather experience from Canadian car owners who have had reacquired their vehicle as bonded salvage from the Insurance company.

I have some insurance adjusters and owners who have seen the salvage title retained by the original owner, I would like to see more examples for my case.

At the very least, it will define which Insurance companies are more flexible and friendly to owners.

As you know, my car was undervalued at $24 grand.

They tried to remove my car from impound without settlement on numerous occasions, so I had to pay the bill to have the car moved to a private location.

They also told me they will only pay 2 days of storage fees, the rest is on me.

Their contract with salvage rights is priority over me, and I’m not allowed to buy the car...

Anything I take off the car, they look up retail used valuations and will deduct from my claim, dispute no valuation for brembo brakes, custom interior etc.

Without ever having an “at fault” claim in 40 years, and paying for every insurance option, I’m a bit staggered that as a customer, I’m being treated very disrespectfully.

If there’s experiences that can benefit me as an example, I would love to hear from you.

I have my broker looking into their contract claims, but I’m not giving up yet.

[m3_tristan]

What insurance company are you with? Would be good to know for us Canadians to stay away from.

[TomHudson]

I’m st the second level and just met with my broker that I’ve dealt with for 25 years.

If that fails, I will then post the Insurance company, and detail the correspondence so other members can judge for themselves about quality and customer service.

To be clear, I have full coverage and every option available to me that I could purchase, including winter tire discount.

I’ve never had an “at fault” claim in almost 40 years, and never lost any points on my license.

[6ixSpd]

You can take them to arbitration if you want to dispute the value. I had to do this for a family member's Porsche which was hilariously undervalued by almost 20%. They also stopped covering his rental car because apparently because they made an offer, the rental has to be finished. Oh, and this accident was not his fault whatsoever, yet they still didn't give a shit. And that's not getting into the horrendous communication and lack of consistency with their agents...

They wouldn't budge so I looked up a reputable arbitrator and took them to court and recovered the argued disparity in valuation successfully. Fuck insurance companies.

Their treatment (only paying for 2 days storage, etc) of you is an attempt to strong arm you into taking their bullshit offer. Don't give up yet.

The stickler in your situation is if the modifications or nature of the build was never disclosed to the insurer. That might be the dagger, as in order to claim that your car is worth more, you have to have it appriased/disclosed when shopping for the policy so they will adjust the premium accordingly.

I've a hunch you're with The Personal...

Having learned from the Porsche experience, it's well worth it to pay a little more and be with a premium brand than the outright less expensive one.

[M_Chronos]

If they are paying you the value of a stock M3 they should not get the benefit of receiving a stock M3 plus tens of thousands of extras added to it to then sell in salvage. You may not get them to budge on paying out undisclosed value but you might get an arbitrator to side with you on the first point and give you the right to the salvage title at stock M3 salvage prices.

[TomHudson]

They are aware of the visible aftermarket items. Brakes, suspension, interior etc..

Their view is I can put what I want in the car, but the acquisition of the vehicle, as insured, had brakes, suspension, engine etc...

If I remove a V8 engine, they will deduct retail used value of it, despite that’s not the salvage value.

Obviously, they have a lucrative deal with salvage that Trumps me as a customer to purchase the salvage vehicle.

I have had a few contacts with adjusters and owners who have retained salvage value.
I need examples to make an argument.

I may have to acquire used parts to substitute for the aftermarket options, they won’t insure me for.

Brakes, exhaust, V8 engine, Seats, interior, steering wheel etc..

[6ixSpd]

If you can swap stock parts on, you can definitely pull your mods off. Many have done this in our market. As long as you're not just ripping parts off without replacements, you're good.

I legitimately do not understand how they are able to simply deny you your right to buy it back. That sounds highly illegal.

[TomHudson]

They’re mincing words carefully and quoting contract and Ontario legislation to make some justification.

I need to look at my contract to determine if their right to acquire my vehicle is mandatory or a choice.
For example, I have the “right” to an independent valuation, that doesn’t mean it’s mandatory.

I believe they’re being selective and opportunistic at my expense.
As has been mentioned, they’ve been excessively heavy handed through out the process.

[SAMM3Y]

I'd consult with a lawyer..

[tdott]

I've never had to deal with not being able to buy back your salvage car.

With a heavily modded car, it's always advisable to have an agreed value policy or ensure every mod is covered to avoid them valuing it as a stock car.

[xander_g]

insurance companies are scum and dealing with them on a daily basis, the only truth is - they are looking out for the shareholders and not the policyholders.


FYI

[6ixSpd]

Originally Posted by TomHudson

I believe they're being selective and opportunistic at my expense.

Absolutely, this is a fact of all businesses.

I'd definitely lawyer up as this sounds like it's not something you're going to be able to resolve directly without another authority on your side thrown into the mix.

[TomHudson]

The insurance company has said that with branded vehicles are not sold back to customers.
The only exception would be vehicles that are not branded, but just too expensive to fix.
The owner can opt to fix it at their expense, without having a salvage title that I have.

I looking for parts that would be stock on an E90 platform, that would suffice to appease the insurance valuation and expectations of auction.

I think we all know what parts I’m looking for....

[TomHudson]

Originally Posted by tdott

I've never had to deal with not being able to buy back your salvage car.

With a heavily modded car, it's always advisable to have an agreed value policy or ensure every mod is covered to avoid them valuing it as a stock car.

I agree, and should have done that.

However, the expectation is they insured a vehicle with stock brakes, stock interior etc...I can meet their expectations by having stock items with the car for auction.
I just need to acquire them..

[TomHudson]

Insurance is saying that there are basically 3 types of brands on cars from accidents.

1) is damage that is excessive of repair. In these instances, some insurance companies will allow the owner to retain the vehicle, but the extra expense to fix is theirs.

2) the damage is significant enough to be branded salvage. The motor vehicle body will have the brand. Car cannot be roadworthy unless inspected as such by the MTO.
These cars go to auction to be sold to licensed scrappers.

3) car needs to be destroyed, cannot be fixed.

With my car branded as salvage, they will not sell it to me. It must go to suction fir them to recoup what they can.

I keep arguing, but even my broker isn’t siding with me on this.

[s0ldats]

Originally Posted by TomHudson

Insurance is saying that there are basically 3 types of brands on cars from accidents.

1) is damage that is excessive of repair. In these instances, some insurance companies will allow the owner to retain the vehicle, but the extra expense to fix is theirs.

2) the damage is significant enough to be branded salvage. The motor vehicle body will have the brand. Car cannot be roadworthy unless inspected as such by the MTO.
These cars go to auction to be sold to licensed scrappers.

3) car needs to be destroyed, cannot be fixed.

With my car branded as salvage, they will not sell it to me. It must go to suction fir them to recoup what they can.

I keep arguing, but even my broker isn’t siding with me on this.

there's a motor for sale on the socal classifieds for 8.5k USD. but i'm sure you could probably find a local option for same or less. or ebay!

fight it! insurance knows your car will pull a lot at auction with all the parts on it...


edit: also your broker is not a lawyer. get a lawyer

[TomHudson]

Yes, I need a lawyer consultation...

The initial conversation with the first adjuster was I couldn’t have the car for “liability”.
I thought it was a safety issue, so I told him I would keep some parts, deduct those scrap values, and settle the claim.

The new adjuster said that if I keep the engine, for example, they will deduct the “retail” value of a used engine from my claim....
So, theoretically they would deduct 8000 or more, just from the motor, without even knowing it’s condition.

I’m not sure how that’s legal, since their claim would be arbitrary.

[14_deltaM3]

There’s a lot of nuance here between what’s required by the law, what’s required by their policy, and what is not defined in any document and left silent (giving them room to make a decision either way)

For example, a few scenarios:
- insurance could be trying to enforce an internal policy that could be supported by or contrary to applicable law
- they could be taking a position on a discretionary matter, and actually have room to flex
- they could be flying by the seat of their pants.

I say get a lawyer - spending 1500 on a consult and obtaining a demand letter is a small investment here.

[SYT_Shadow]

what a nightmare Tom... I'm sorry

[TomHudson]

I’ve started the search for capable, experienced legal advice.

I have the sense they’re “spinning” this to create fear and uncertainty, knowing I don’t understand contract law or Ontario law.

[xander_g]

Originally Posted by 14_deltaM3

There’s a lot of nuance here between what’s required by the law, what’s required by their policy, and what is not defined in any document and left silent (giving them room to make a decision either way)

For example, a few scenarios:
- insurance could be trying to enforce an internal policy that could be supported by or contrary to applicable law
- they could be taking a position on a discretionary matter, and actually have room to flex
- they could be flying by the seat of their pants.

I say get a lawyer - spending 1500 on a consult and obtaining a demand letter is a small investment here.

Or the adjuster knows exactly what kind of car is in his PD file and is currently making a deal on getting it into the hands of a salvage guy "he deals with", sorry i meant a preferred service provider.

[MaximusB]

Sorry to hear.

Will they let you take the car back temporarily?

This kind of situation is when I like ICBC we have in BC. A single insurance provider, so you're dealing with the same policy and rules across the board. I have no personal experience dealing with car insurance provider outside my province. But I do have experience dealing with salvage claim with ICBC. Based on what I read in this thread, it seems to be similar but sounds like they're putting up road blocks and make it as inconvenience as possible for you to get what you want.

Many years ago a drunk driver blew a red light and wrote off my car. ICBC was going to write it off and send it to one of their salvage facility for parts to recover some cost on their end. As per usual, went back and forth a few times with ICBC to negotiate a fair write off value on my car. I too had many aftermarket parts on my car at the time (although they're not as rare and valuable as your engine, interior and etc). Anyways, ICBC argued that aftermarket parts are worthless to them because they can't accurately determine the value. It was their way to trying to keep the write off value low. They were thinking I was going to argue that aftermarket parts would increase the value of my car. However, I went the other direction on them and sorta caught them off guard so to speak.

Long story short, I told them I won't sign over the title till I get a chance to take off the aftermarket parts. (I checked with several friends in the repair and car insurance industry to make sure ICBC don't the power to force me to sign over the title). It took like 4 days of back and forth with ICBC in total. In the end, we agreed on the write off value and they gave me a full year to take off the aftermarket parts. I had to return the car back to them in the same condition as it was after the accident in order to get the pay out. IE, if after the accident the engine could start up and run then when I return the car back to them the engine needs to be able to start up.

So I towed the car over to a friend's shop and posted it online for part out. When all said and done, I gave back a car that resembled mine but it was definitely different. It was a different Adjuster who closed the case. And by then they didn't seem to care. Like I took off a set of Volks and put on 4 steelies with bald tires. Carbon fiber hood became oem hood in a different color. BBK became stock brakes...etc

Anyways, I guess my point is, be persistent and polite. Don't show them your frustration. If you can, get the car back temporarily to take off parts. You can easily source used oem parts online and sell off the aftermarket for a small profit.