VAC rod bearing guys please chime in

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by torrque

Sorry to jump in, where do you guys buy your BE bearings.. ECS, Turner? I see them listed as no ETA, not available....

I ordered the 2 sets I've received in Feb. If your car is pending a rod bearing job due to BE availability maybe I can help you out

[jvictormp]

Originally Posted by ha9981

Sorry I did a bit of digging and they aren't mixed H/HX set. They are a custom set so perhaps they using the bin method like BE.

I'd trust Lang from what I hear about them.

It's not that he's lying. He actually said to me by email that the shells are not measured like BEs are. He receives them from ACL and send them as they are.

[ha9981]

Originally Posted by TX

I'll try to keep this short.

1) no we are not over-reacting about bearings. It is a huge deal which is why there is a list of ...what 200+? members - just members with blown engines..taking into account that a very small amount of owners actually roam around here that is a big deal.

3) Yes, you were most likely sold untouched ACL from Mpower, it's flat out bad business. I was told directly through several conversations that each shell would be hand measured for every set that they sell. In the end, I've been burned twice by them. When confronted with the facts I was called a liar followed by some very nasty comments. I won't deal with them again.

4) Lang is only going to split and combine ACL H and HX as I have said before. He does not measure or sort. He has been very open about this when asked so I do not find any fault with him and actually respect his honesty. It really is nice to see these days.

4) VAC has had some very promising reports and photos of removed bearings. which is good. Actually some look amazing. They could have easily sold me bearings if they would have counteracted some of the hate by listing target bearing thickness/tolerance and reinforced the use of clevite shells and not coated OEMs. I feel that most of the hate for VAC has been related to their lack of transparency about what they are actually selling or changing what they are selling various times over the years. If they can't answer the same question over the phone or via email the same way to different people then yes that is a concern. If they ship one customer clevite bearings and another customer OEM 702 Glyco bearings then that is a concern. If they take OEM bearings and coat them, mixing up the shells and send back shells out of order in relation to uppers and lowers, that is a concern. Several sets were measured where the lower shells were actually thicker than the uppers supporting the idea they had the shipment mixed up and sent out incorrectly. The parting line coating issue might be resolved I haven't seen a post on it in a while.

5) So why BE? Because if you don't have a shop to measure each shell (or don't trust the shells you bought) then BE is the easy answer since they do measure each shell to ensure that your end result is what they sold you..no questions about it along with the proof from the table they were measured on.


and my short post is sort of long... sorry

Overthinking = arguing for hours over which additional clearance bearings to get

Stupid = replacing with OE spec bearings

I'm saying the overthinking is in arguing over VAC vs ACL vs BE. Just replace your OE bearings with either option additional clearance option and save your engine.

For people overthinking, stop being silly. If you really want to do it the right way then pull out your rod and measure the journals. While in there take care of the mains too.

[911r]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Yeah believe the tis said 0.01-0.03mm or something around that. Must be BS or we would have seen serious blown up numbers since 10 years, which we aren't.

I'd have to agree, my OEM bearings made it to 100,000 miles. Now apparently they're garbage? I would say there are more E9x M3s out there that made it to 100k+ miles on OEM bearings than E9x M3s that haven't. From the techs I've spoken to at BMW who worked on E9x M3s when they first came out, most cases of bearing failure can be attributed to 1) following the original 15,000 mile oil change interval, and 2) not warming up the car properly.

This is not to meant to dispel, or discourage people from changing out their bearings—especially if you purchased the car without knowing all of the previous owners. I'm just saying that what kind of bearings you put back into your engine shouldn't matter as much if you take good care of your car. I have no doubt my VAC bearings will make it another 100,000 miles.

@ OP: If BEs are available, go with BEs for peace of mind if it's really something that's going to bother you. In my case, there was a nearly 5-month wait and I couldn't justify waiting that long.

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by 911r

I'd have to agree, my OEM bearings made it to 100,000 miles. Now apparently they're garbage? I would say there are more E9x M3s out there that made it to 100k+ miles on OEM bearings than E9x M3s that haven't. From the techs I've spoken to at BMW who worked on E9x M3s when they first came out, most cases of bearing failure can be attributed to 1) following the original 15,000 mile oil change interval, and 2) not warming up the car properly.

This is not to meant to dispel, or discourage people from changing out their bearings—especially if you purchased the car without knowing all of the previous owners. I'm just saying that what kind of bearings you put back into your engine shouldn't matter as much if you take good care of your car. I have no doubt my VAC bearings will make it another 100,000 miles.

@ OP: If BEs are available, go with BEs for peace of mind if it's really something that's going to bother you. In my case, there was a nearly 5-month wait and I couldn't justify waiting that long.

Can we please move on from this conversation. This argument has literally be argued for a thousandth time just a couple months ago. Literally the same "warm up, take care, oil change" BS. Talking to mechanics gives you zero credibility or authority nor does saying you've made it 100k on your bearings. If you don't believe in the very credible body of knowledge on this form, that's fine just move on.

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by DRLane

Can we please move on from this conversation. This argument has literally be argued for a thousandth time just a couple months ago. Literally the same "warm up, take care, oil change" BS. Talking to mechanics gives you zero credibility or authority nor does saying you've made it 100k on your bearings. If you don't believe in the very credible body of knowledge on this form, that's fine just move on.

I recognize that was a little accusatory. Apologies. It's just in the 2.5 years I've been in this forum (which i know isn't shit) this literal train of thought is debated ad nauseam. And yet every couple weeks we hear of another S65 grenade of which many are low mile enthusiast owned well cared for cars.

There is so much available data if folks would just search... I swear I'm going insane

[TX]

Originally Posted by DRLane

Can we please move on from this conversation. This argument has literally be argued for a thousandth time just a couple months ago. Literally the same "warm up, take care, oil change" BS. Talking to mechanics gives you zero credibility or authority nor does saying you've made it 100k on your bearings. If you don't believe in the very credible body of knowledge on this form, that's fine just move on.

This!!!!
Well spoken my friend.

[911r]

Originally Posted by DRLane

Can we please move on from this conversation. This argument has literally be argued for a thousandth time just a couple months ago. Literally the same "warm up, take care, oil change" BS. Talking to mechanics gives you zero credibility or authority nor does saying you've made it 100k on your bearings. If you don't believe in the very credible body of knowledge on this form, that's fine just move on.

Yea, I should provide a disclaimer that I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, I'm just echoing things I've heard from those much more mechanically gifted than I. This whole conversation in general has ran its course, I'll be the first the admit.

Like I said in my post, I'm not hear to say "rod bearings are a myth" — if that were the case I wouldn't have spent the $2,500 to have my bearings exchanged.

As for the question at hand...My shop has done 500+ jobs with VAC bearings, none of which have subsequently failed. He has pulled VAC bearings from super-charged cars making close to 600whp for ~20k miles that have little to no wear or change in tolerance. That's good enough for me. If people want to say others are stupid, or mistaken for using VAC bearings, that's their prerogative. I have no dog in this fight. I just wanted to throw in my .02.

[DRLane]

@911r

I hope you saw my second post in response.

I'm not saying you're stupid or that VAC are garbage. Just the preventative / warmup stuff isn't factual and if anything harmful to the new owners. Any wear on a bearing is more wear than should be on the bearing. Whether it resulting in a spun bearing is largely luck. Hence the "German lottery".

[SAMM3Y]

My ACL's were good, I measured them with a tape measure with the hook out! 1/8" all around!

[TX]

Originally Posted by SAMM3Y

My ACL's were good, I measured them with a tape measure with the hook out! 1/8" all around!

I may need to borrow your tape measure. I hosed my tile 1/8" gap, mine must have been way off.

[SAMM3Y]

Originally Posted by TX

I may need to borrow your tape measure. I hosed my tile 1/8" gap, mine must have been way off.

Lol, yeah that hooks a bitch gotta clean all the quick set off the tape to make sure it doesn't bind for a super accurate measurement.

Just a little comic relief, the thread tension was giving me a heavy vibe. I think rod bearing talk on the forum should be treated like politics around the thanksgiving zoom call... 😂

it's ruining my post work shitty Thursday whiskey 😉... cheers

[911r]

Originally Posted by DRLane

@911r

I hope you saw my second post in response.

I'm not saying you're stupid or that VAC are garbage. Just the preventative / warmup stuff isn't factual and if anything harmful to the new owners. Any wear on a bearing is more wear than should be on the bearing. Whether it resulting in a spun bearing is largely luck. Hence the "German lottery".

Yeah man, I'm with you. I should have worded my response more carefully.

To put an end to this thread:

"The VAC-Clevite bearings show an extra 0.00050 inch clearance over stock. The new bearings are a Clevite Tri-Metal construction using lead-copper composition. The lead-copper composition is highly advised for Blackstone oil tracking because it allows to track lead as an indirect indication of bearing wear and life.

The new VAC-Clevite bearings are a good option for factory clearances. I would prefer these over OEM bearings. But they don't increase the clearance to the point the S65/S85 needs to be. These bearings are good, but they're not good enough. A new bearing, BE-Bearings are needed to fix the problem."

-https://bebearings.com/PreviousAttempts.html

If anyone would like to learn further about tolerance stacking, BE also has a very informative article on that:

-https://bebearings.com/Overview.html

Another important piece of information is that tolerance stacking is not the only cause for rod bearing failure; "The tin-aluminum is much harder at the surface, and much harder on the crankshaft. It is this extra hardless that is believed to contribute to increased engine failures on these engines with 702/703 (LCI) bearings. In addition to extra hardness, early bearing wear is much more difficult to detect with a Blackstone oil analysis (due to lack of lead and copper)."

Now that's it...I've thought about rod bearings more tonight than I would have liked to have in ten lifetimes.

[TX]

Originally Posted by SAMM3Y

Lol, yeah that hooks a bitch gotta clean all the quick set of the tape to make sure it doesn't bind for a super accurate measurementZ

Just a little comic relief, the thread tension was giving me a heavy vibe. I think rod bearing talk on the forum should be treated like politics around the thanksgiving zoom call... 😂

it's ruining my post work shitty Thursday whiskey 😉... cheers

Always enjoy the humor...made this worth a read. May I recommend the Lagavulin 16 an old favorite, the distillers edition is nifty too...or perhaps the Ardbeg uigeadail if you like the smokey peat malts.

[911r]

Originally Posted by TX

Always enjoy the humor...made this worth a read. May I recommend the Lagavulin 16 an old favorite, the distillers edition is nifty too...or perhaps the Ardbeg uigeadail if you like the smokey peat malts.

I'm partial to Old Forester 1920 Prohibition Style .. cheap too, so more money left for rod bearings

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by 911r

Now that's it...I've thought about rod bearings more tonight than I would have liked to have in ten lifetimes.

Haha, if nothing else the never ending S65B40 RB story force us to learn stuff, not a bad thing! And the more we learn the better we preserve our dear engines...

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by SAMM3Y

Lol, yeah that hooks a bitch gotta clean all the quick set off the tape to make sure it doesn't bind for a super accurate measurement.

Just a little comic relief, the thread tension was giving me a heavy vibe. I think rod bearing talk on the forum should be treated like politics around the thanksgiving zoom call... 😂

it's ruining my post work shitty Thursday whiskey 😉... cheers

Wait, you get whiskey on Thursdays? Thursdays added!