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      05-16-2019, 06:27 PM   #111
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Two track days in on very technical courses that are known to eat up tires and brakes. What does this inside edge wear tell you? (I'm a rookie so just trying to learn something here).
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      05-16-2019, 07:54 PM   #112
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Two track days in on very technical courses that are known to eat up tires and brakes. What does this inside edge wear tell you? (I'm a rookie so just trying to learn something here).
That doesn't look too terrible, maybe needs a tad more negative camber. What's the alignment right now?

Also, what cold and hot pressures are you seeing? Have you ever used a tire probe when pulling off track?
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      05-16-2019, 07:57 PM   #113
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-2.2 and zero toe. It was 38-40 psi hot with Bridgestone recommending 1.15 times cold pressure.
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      05-16-2019, 09:03 PM   #114
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-2.2 and zero toe. It was 38-40 psi hot with Bridgestone recommending 1.15 times cold pressure.

I dunno, in that case I think I'd just leave it be. The wear looks fine for that sort of alignment spec and the usage. I'm not sure what alignments cost for you, but even if they're $125, will that get you another $125 worth of life out of those tires? I doubt it.
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      05-16-2019, 10:52 PM   #115
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Is it the inside edge of the inside tire of the predominant direction on the track?

That tire looks fine to me. You're not going to get even wear without significant changes to the car. It's the nature of the car. E9X M3 has less dynamic camber changes than earlier M3s but the E9X loves to eat tires, brakes and fuel
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      05-17-2019, 05:26 AM   #116
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-2.2 and zero toe. It was 38-40 psi hot with Bridgestone recommending 1.15 times cold pressure.
Interesting to see you had more wear on the inside than outside.

When I ran RE71R with stock suspension + Dinan camber plates @ around -2.2 front camber, I got the opposite. I got more wear on the outside than the inside. My tire pressures were different, around 27 cold and 35-36 hot.

Does the tire see street use? Could be driving to/from the track that is wearing the inside
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      05-17-2019, 08:24 AM   #117
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That is the outside edge worn down. I just had the tires swapped sides to maximize their life.

It looks like there was wear almost to the sidewalls. I guess this would be perfect pressure if it's right to the edge but not rolled over the sidewall?
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      05-17-2019, 11:48 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by Dreamer99 View Post
That is the outside edge worn down. I just had the tires swapped sides to maximize their life.

It looks like there was wear almost to the sidewalls. I guess this would be perfect pressure if it's right to the edge but not rolled over the sidewall?
Ahh makes sense then. Similar wear to what I had. Needs more negative camber up front, tire is soft. Here is how my NT01 look when worn, with -3.5 front.
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      05-17-2019, 12:44 PM   #119
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That is the outside edge worn down. I just had the tires swapped sides to maximize their life.

It looks like there was wear almost to the sidewalls. I guess this would be perfect pressure if it's right to the edge but not rolled over the sidewall?
Use a paint pen or chalk on the sidewalls to test it. Looks about right from the photo, though.
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      05-17-2019, 07:44 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamer99 View Post
That is the outside edge worn down. I just had the tires swapped sides to maximize their life.

It looks like there was wear almost to the sidewalls. I guess this would be perfect pressure if it's right to the edge but not rolled over the sidewall?
There are little arrows on the shoulder...I only get concerned if the tips start getting worn off. Otherwise what you're seeing is normal wear on the shoulder.

With NT01s, I'd flip on the rim after 3-4 days (12-18 heat cycles) and get pretty even wear by the time they corded.
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      05-19-2019, 08:43 PM   #121
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How do you guys go about bleeding air throughout the day to achieve target pressures?

I usually start first session at 27 psi and bleed to that at the start of every session. Is that the right thing to do or I start dropping more the second, third, fourth sessions to hit a magical hot pressure target?
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      05-19-2019, 08:52 PM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaX PL View Post
How do you guys go about bleeding air throughout the day to achieve target pressures?

I usually start first session at 27 psi and bleed to that at the start of every session. Is that the right thing to do or I start dropping more the second, third, fourth sessions to hit a magical hot pressure target?
I would adjust pressures as soon as I came off track to get a little lower than the "hot" pressures I was shooting for (since you never truly come off track at peak temps).
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      05-19-2019, 09:24 PM   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by admranger View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaX PL View Post
How do you guys go about bleeding air throughout the day to achieve target pressures?

I usually start first session at 27 psi and bleed to that at the start of every session. Is that the right thing to do or I start dropping more the second, third, fourth sessions to hit a magical hot pressure target?
I would adjust pressures as soon as I came off track to get a little lower than the "hot" pressures I was shooting for (since you never truly come off track at peak temps).
This.

Over time, you'll start to learn how much pressure increase you get so you can reliably set cold pressure to achieve the desired hot pressure.
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      05-20-2019, 10:19 AM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamer99 View Post
Two track days in on very technical courses that are known to eat up tires and brakes. What does this inside edge wear tell you? (I'm a rookie so just trying to learn something here).
Wow that's the inside edge? That looks the same as my outside edge after autocrossing on stock suspension with limited camber. It's hard to say but it seems like you've got too much camber and that's wearing the inside. I'm surprised you'd have that problem with -2.2 degrees. Is the other side showing the same wear?

Flip the tires left to right and you'll double their life. Next track day, find someone with a pyrometer (or buy your own) and measure the temperature distribution from the inside, middle, and outside tread of the tire as quickly as you can right as soon as you get back. The inside should just be a little hotter, but if you have too much camber or some other issue, it may show up way hotter than the middle and outside
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      05-20-2019, 07:40 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommysalami View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamer99 View Post
Two track days in on very technical courses that are known to eat up tires and brakes. What does this inside edge wear tell you? (I'm a rookie so just trying to learn something here).
Wow that's the inside edge? That looks the same as my outside edge after autocrossing on stock suspension with limited camber. It's hard to say but it seems like you've got too much camber and that's wearing the inside. I'm surprised you'd have that problem with -2.2 degrees. Is the other side showing the same wear?

Flip the tires left to right and you'll double their life. Next track day, find someone with a pyrometer (or buy your own) and measure the temperature distribution from the inside, middle, and outside tread of the tire as quickly as you can right as soon as you get back. The inside should just be a little hotter, but if you have too much camber or some other issue, it may show up way hotter than the middle and outside
That picture was taken after I had the tires swapped on the rims. It is outside edge wear.

I think I'm going to bump up my camber to -2.5 or so for dual purpose duty.
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      05-31-2019, 05:44 AM   #126
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Anyone tried the PROXES T1R on the track?
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      05-31-2019, 09:07 AM   #127
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Anyone tried the PROXES T1R on the track?
It's not a very track-focused tire and is an older design. I'm sure it will work, but I wouldn't bother unless you're getting them very cheap (or already have them).

Given that it's a street tire, and not an overly aggressive one, I would expect it to wear down fast and overheat maybe halfway through a session.
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      05-31-2019, 10:41 AM   #128
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Anyone tried the PROXES T1R on the track?
It's not a very track-focused tire and is an older design. I'm sure it will work, but I wouldn't bother unless you're getting them very cheap (or already have them).

Given that it's a street tire, and not an overly aggressive one, I would expect it to wear down fast and overheat maybe halfway through a session.
thx. They are cheap on TR and Simpletire
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      05-31-2019, 10:57 AM   #129
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thx. They are cheap on TR and Simpletire
How cheap? You'll still have to pay for mounting and balancing, and if they fall apart after one or two track days I wouldn't consider that very cost effective. You'd also be frustrated if the car is all over the place after 10 minutes.
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      05-31-2019, 11:49 AM   #130
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Quote:
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thx. They are cheap on TR and Simpletire
How cheap? You'll still have to pay for mounting and balancing, and if they fall apart after one or two track days I wouldn't consider that very cost effective. You'd also be frustrated if the car is all over the place after 10 minutes.
with coupon I can get 4 x 275/30/19 for $850

The Kumo ECSTA PS91 are $192 at TR and i don't see a difference between the two

laptime they are all the same to me. All of these style tires including the PS4S put me at the 1:38-1:40 range dry. and all last about 2 days.

My days are 7 x 20 minutes session on 18 turns NYST.

so roughly all tires last 240 minutes. I some times skip the first 9am session

The Proxes RR are relatively cheap $230 but the size is odd - 235/35/19. The RR put me at 1:37. And my goal this year is 1:36

The rear last a long time
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      05-31-2019, 02:04 PM   #131
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with coupon I can get 4 x 275/30/19 for $850

The Kumo ECSTA PS91 are $192 at TR and i don't see a difference between the two

laptime they are all the same to me. All of these style tires including the PS4S put me at the 1:38-1:40 range dry. and all last about 2 days.

My days are 7 x 20 minutes session on 18 turns NYST.

so roughly all tires last 240 minutes. I some times skip the first 9am session

The Proxes RR are relatively cheap $230 but the size is odd - 235/35/19. The RR put me at 1:37. And my goal this year is 1:36

The rear last a long time
Why not switch wheels (and brakes) so you can have access to all of the track focused 18 inch tire options?
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      05-31-2019, 02:39 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhyary View Post
with coupon I can get 4 x 275/30/19 for $850

The Kumo ECSTA PS91 are $192 at TR and i don't see a difference between the two

laptime they are all the same to me. All of these style tires including the PS4S put me at the 1:38-1:40 range dry. and all last about 2 days.

My days are 7 x 20 minutes session on 18 turns NYST.

so roughly all tires last 240 minutes. I some times skip the first 9am session

The Proxes RR are relatively cheap $230 but the size is odd - 235/35/19. The RR put me at 1:37. And my goal this year is 1:36

The rear last a long time


The PS91 is a much newer tire. It's not a high-end performance tire and hence is cheaper -- I think it's a PSS knock-off, honestly. I'm sure some others can chime in with how it holds up at the track.
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