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      08-20-2017, 12:10 AM   #1
ekological
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Out of the fire: 4.4L S65 stroker install

This is the former Project Fire car that I purchased two years ago. I was originally not a fan of the E92M3. I will always be a E36M3 guy (the E46M3 never grew on me and, imo, hasn't aged very well). That all changed when I saw a Lime Rock edition at a shopping mall...the Fire Orange... I also heard superlatives about the S65 engine, which came from the engine builder where he said that the euro S50 in race form would need a rebuild after 25 - 30 hours of racing, whereas the S65 (with the revised factory rod bearings) can go 100+ hours. It was the last naturally aspirated M3, and the only one with a V8, so I searched and picked one up. Earlier this year, I came upon an opportunity to acquire a 4.4L stroker S65 from the guy who built engines for PTG. To me, it represented an opportunity to make this car a GTS eater, where, in addition to more power, it would have a 6MT!

The build included:
  • Marine Crankshaft billet crank for 4.4L
  • Carrillo Rods
  • CP Pistons
  • Sleeved S65 block
  • Custom cams
  • Eibach valve springs
  • Custom head work
  • Larger Bosch injectors
  • 12.5:1 compression ratio

The only difference between this build and his typical race engine build is the lower compression ration (race spec is 13:1) and stock oil pump vs dry sump.

I would be using a Syvecs standalone ECU.

Pistons, rods, and wrist pins:


Crank:


Block waiting for internals:


Internals installed:


On the engine dyno:


Final numbers:
550HP/400 ft-lb

The tuner uses Life Racing ECUs and mapped the engine with stock headers and race exhaust. The thought was that since Syvecs uses the Life Racing hardware inside, the map would port over and the install would be plug and play.

Time for some prep work for the Syvecs install. All of the original wire loom tape had turned to a gooey mess:


Replaced all of the gooey tape:


The ECU box/tray needs to be trimmed as the Syvecs ECU will fill out the whole area, whereas the stock unit is pretty thin:


I'm thinking, "How the hell am I going to remove that? Dremel? noo...too deep in there. Power filer?" Then I remembered that I have an oscillating tool, which made quick work of it and yielded very nice result:




I also ran the ethernet cable to the glovebox, which allows you to plug in a laptop to interface with the ECU. I might replace with a longer cable and put the port somewhere else.


At the shop waiting for the air conditioning refrigerant to finish evacuation:


Engine/tranny dropped:


Stock engine ready to be removed:


Stroker in the box:




New engine installed with a few remaining details to button up:


Unfortunately, it wasn't a simple plug and play deal. The engine didn't fire up at all at first, which required me to run over to the shop, connect my laptop, and have the tuner remote in to see what was up. We finally got the engine to fire up, but after all systems checks, we went for a short drive. The ECU would stop getting a signal for the O2 sensor and the tuner said that it was happening too quick before he could see what was going on. He needed the car to be on a chassis dyno with a sniffer. So the car left the shop like this:


There were three options to get this resolved: bring the car to a local shop with a dyno and have the tuner remote in, have the tuner come up for a day, or bring the car down to the tuner in Virginia. I figured bringing the car down would be the best bet as he has all of his tools with him to do everything. Since the car was going to be trailered down and since the car was going to be remapped, that had me thinking, "Hmmm...should I look into replacing the somewhat restrictive midpipe?" Looked around at options, but the biggest factor was whether the parts were in stock and I would be able to install it before bringing the car down. I settled on Bimmerworld's tri-Y header and midpipe with high flow cats:


The stock four to one collector inserted into Bimmerworld's header:


You know how you sometimes see a new exhaust or some other fabricated metal part with killer TIG welds? Yeah, the header and midpipe is not one of those parts. The headers have a mix of MIG and TIG welds with the TIG welds not being the stack of dimes. I was also puzzled why each pipe wasn't welded around the entire perimeter to the flange. I was definitely slightly disappointed after dropping over $4500 on this setup. But there was more to come...

Of course, I was kicking myself for not having the header installed while the engine was out, because it took my friend and I ten hours to do on my two post lift! Removing the factory heat shields is a huge PITA and took the longest amount of time.

The Bimmerworld setup comes in five pieces: the left and right header, the mid pipe, and two bent pieces that slide into the mid pipe and then both slide onto the ends of the header. You can imagine our surprise when we fully inserted the angled pieces into the mid pipe and then held it up to the headers...and it was two inches too wide! The headers seemed parallel as did the two bent pieces once inserted into the mid pipe. WTF? I took out the miter saw with a cutoff disc and cut 1/2" off of each bent pipe to allow them to go further into the mid pipe. With material removed, we were still too wide by 1/4" or so. Busted out the ratchet strap to pull the ends together to allow us to get them onto the header. Again, disappointed.

Pre-cat senors:
The Bimmerworld header moves the pre-cat sensor to where the stock post-cat sensor used to be. Bimmerworld never says anything about these sensors as they sell you extensions for the post-cat sensors. There is a bracket that bolts onto the transmission that holds the O2 sensor connectors. In order to use the factory O2 sensors with the new setup, the passenger side connector does not get secured with the factory bracket and the connection assembly dangles. The driver side is even worse: you have to unclip the car-side harness pretty much from all clips on the brackets and are pulling against the oil level sensor:


You can see a new sensor installed (gray wire just hanging) where the stock secure point is and the stock sensor being stretched to meet the factory harness. That's no good in my book. I spent hours researching Bosch part numbers because they don't make it easy to find the same sensor with a longer wire. But persistence pays off (I ended up realizing that I forgot to reinstall a heat shield on the passenger side that has a clip for the O2 sensor and rerouted the wire different to what you see in the second pic):



Post-cat sensors:
The post-cat sensors are relocated way further down toward the back of the car. They sold me a pair of extensions, but after installing the midpipe and looking at how tight everything is, I was uncomfortable with having those round plastic connectors so close to the hot exhaust. Looking at some specs, Bosch rates the plastic connectors to 105C. I think it would get way hotter than 105C 1/4" - 1/2" away from the pipes. Again, after much research, I found supposedly the same sensors with much longer cables. I also discovered that you're not supposed to or would be unable to solder the O2 wires. Bosch sells universal O2 sensor kits with what they call their SmartLink connector. It's basically a housing that holds four posi-lock connectors with wire seals to make it water-resistant. Of course, you can't buy the SmartLink connector by itself, so I had to buy two $35 universal kits. Ugh.




You can see how tight it is and also how the passenger side sensors points to the driver side and vice versa. Each sensor has to be plugged into the side from where it came from, so either you attempt to get the wire back on its correct side near the sensor, or further upstream. With that in mind, using the Bimmerworld-supplied extension kit wouldn't have reached. I ended up ordering cable holders that I've seen while working on my E39M5's O2 sensors. Would you believe each clip is $4 now?!?




I thought I was out of the woods, but then encountered this when reinstalling the transmission shroud/shield:



WTF? I'm sure Bimmerworld was aiming to use the factory's post-cat sensor cutouts for their pre-cat sensors, but the sensors weren't angled up enough as well as too far forward (or back..I forget). I had to notch the stock heat shield to accommodate the sensors.

I've brought all of this up with Bimmerworld and their response is, "We've never encountered these issues," and that's it. When I mentioned how their solution for O2 sensors was poor and that I found longer sensors, not once had they expressed even the tiniest interest.

Here's a before (stock with Eisenmann race exhaust) and after (Bimmerworld headers/mid pipe and Capristo valved exhaust):



Virginia bound:


Caged Animal:


Partial-throttle mapping:


Full-throttle:

Last edited by ekological; 08-21-2017 at 03:11 PM.
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      08-20-2017, 01:45 AM   #2
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Do you have anymore photos of the syvecs and where the cable goes into the ecu
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      08-20-2017, 02:31 AM   #3
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You slide out a piece in the smaller of the ECU connector and push in terminals in previously unoccupied spots.
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      08-20-2017, 03:07 AM   #4
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This is freaking awesome.
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      08-20-2017, 08:36 AM   #5
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Super interesting, thanks for sharing.

At what rpm is the power peak?
What was the extent of the head work? Do you have pre-post flow bench numbers. Where the valve sizes changed?
Do you have any more info on the cams? Are they Schrick or true customs from blanks?
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      08-20-2017, 08:40 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekological View Post
You slide out a piece in the smaller of the ECU connector and push in terminals in previously unoccupied spots.
You just showed a photo of a different plug so wasn't sure
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      08-20-2017, 10:14 AM   #7
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The cams are a custom grind. Unfortunately, the details of the engine are the shop's secret as I haven't seen anyone else put out these numbers. The car was dyno'ed on a Dyno Dynamics chassis dyno, which is known as the heart breaker dyno. The tuner said that its numbers are consistently 16% lower than DynoJets, meaning, he has had customers take their cars to DynoJets and report back the numbers. Then to estimate crank HP from DynoJets is between 15% and 17%, which is consistent with the 550HP number the tuner saw when the engine was on an engine dyno. I forgot to mention the reason why I went with aftermarket headers is the tuner's comment that the stock headers were choking the engine after they mapped it with just the intake plenum, stock headers, and race exhaust. When mapping the car the second time around, he said the map definitely changed and there was an uptick at the higher rpms, but he needed to translate because the engine dyno's fuel pressure was in psi and the car is in bar.

I did do a baseline pull with stock engine, stock headers, stock midpipe, Eisenmann race exhaust on a DynoJet at a shop close by. Been crazy busy with work and I'm not too keen on dropping another $200 just for shits and giggles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorH View Post
Super interesting, thanks for sharing.

At what rpm is the power peak?
What was the extent of the head work? Do you have pre-post flow bench numbers. Where the valve sizes changed?
Do you have any more info on the cams? Are they Schrick or true customs from blanks?
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      08-20-2017, 05:41 PM   #8
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Awesome build. I'm surprised the bimmer world headers weren't good quality. Your build, especially with the syvecs is a beast.
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      08-20-2017, 06:01 PM   #9
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Amazing build. Zero issues with my ARH headers and they are 100% tig welded. Bummer the Bimmerworld ain't and gave you such headaches
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      08-20-2017, 06:48 PM   #10
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What an amazing motor. By any chance do you know what the correction factor was for the engine dyne when it was initially tuned?

I don't doubt your numbers but 125 HP/L is huge output from a NA pump gas, street motor (motorcycle engines excluded). You have the same output, per liter, as the 991.2 Porsche GT3 motor. If these numbers are all verified as fact then I would certainly understand that shop's desire to keep the specifics secret.

Would be interesting to see what you car traps at the end of the 1/4 mile, that would be a good verification of the actual power output (other than top speed, but where would anyone do that in the US). Enjoy your new motor sounds like it will be a lot of fun.
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      08-20-2017, 09:03 PM   #11
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Yours are the same headers that I see in this thread?

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1306778

Are you sure that weld where all four pipes go into the 4:1 collector is a TIG weld? Looks like MIG to me.

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Amazing build. Zero issues with my ARH headers and they are 100% tig welded. Bummer the Bimmerworld ain't and gave you such headaches
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      08-20-2017, 09:13 PM   #12
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Thanks. Unfortunately, I don't know the correction factor. I did have the temp and humidity when I did the baseline dyno at a shop near my place. If I'm not busy and bored maybe I'll mosey on over, but I'll have to wait for the temp to be similar.

I have no reason to doubt the engine builder as he knows his stuff. Look at the P60B40 he restored:



He has quite a few stories of "reputable" shops sending their engines to him to bench dyno and they don't measure up...sometimes with numbers lower than stock!

Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorH View Post
What an amazing motor. By any chance do you know what the correction factor was for the engine dyne when it was initially tuned?

I don't doubt your numbers but 125 HP/L is huge output from a NA pump gas, street motor (motorcycle engines excluded). You have the same output, per liter, as the 991.2 Porsche GT3 motor. If these numbers are all verified as fact then I would certainly understand that shop's desire to keep the specifics secret.

Would be interesting to see what you car traps at the end of the 1/4 mile, that would be a good verification of the actual power output (other than top speed, but where would anyone do that in the US). Enjoy your new motor sounds like it will be a lot of fun.
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      08-20-2017, 09:35 PM   #13
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nice build. thanks for sharing!
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      08-20-2017, 10:00 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekological View Post
Yours are the same headers that I see in this thread?

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1306778

Are you sure that weld where all four pipes go into the 4:1 collector is a TIG weld? Looks like MIG to me.
https://americanracingheaders.com/co...13-long-system
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      08-21-2017, 11:19 AM   #15
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Wow! That is interesting that some engines were found to perform less than stock.
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      08-21-2017, 11:41 AM   #16
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great build. Thanks for sharing
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      08-21-2017, 11:43 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L4ces View Post
Wow! That is interesting that some engines were found to perform less than stock.
Imagine if you were the unsuspecting customer?! Sure, you might feel faster because you probably bought the engine to install into a gutted race car, so of course it will feel faster. I wasn't surprised when I heard the name. Years ago, my friend either bought a diff or sent a diff there to install a different ring and pinion. We actually visited and saw stacks of parts and stuff, but the diff whined like a mofo. He brought it back there again and it still whined. Would I trust that company to build an engine? No way!

Last edited by ekological; 08-21-2017 at 11:49 AM.
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      08-21-2017, 12:22 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ekological View Post
Imagine if you were the unsuspecting customer?! Sure, you might feel faster because you probably bought the engine to install into a gutted race car, so of course it will feel faster. I wasn't surprised when I heard the name. Years ago, my friend either bought a diff or sent a diff there to install a different ring and pinion. We actually visited and saw stacks of parts and stuff, but the diff whined like a mofo. He brought it back there again and it still whined. Would I trust that company to build an engine? No way!
does the company name start with V and end with AC?
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      08-21-2017, 01:06 PM   #19
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If that's giving away too much info then this is more reasonable and then we can move on.

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      08-21-2017, 01:22 PM   #20
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I was curious about the horsepower and how it fairs to other S65 racing engines. I don't if this is an apple and oranges comparison. I don't know much about this subject but I like hearing about all that is going on.

Anyway, this article reads "his BMW S65 V8 should crank out between 560-570 hp and the rpm range runs up through 8,600-8,700 rpm." http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2017...s65-v8-engine/

And KMS' video shows 6xx HP (maybe the dyno is different etc).

Of course we have the regular guys on this forum building engines as well and might even play a part in the background with your builder (you never know).

Last edited by L4ces; 08-21-2017 at 01:29 PM. Reason: Fixed URL
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      08-21-2017, 01:59 PM   #21
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Cool article! Thanks for sharing! I lost a few HP because it's not dry sump and the tuner also dialed the cams back a few degrees for varying pump gas. In race spec with 13:1 compression, race gas, etc...his engines are pushing over 600HP. My engine is also capable of a higher redline, but we dialed it down to stock because it's a stroker and I don't need to add the extra stress for a street engine. As it stands, I can't even drive the car because the ECU fan is broken, so it will shut down at 57C and because the exhaust is too dang loud! I need to run the vacuum line and electronics to control the valves on the Capristo. Haha

Quote:
Originally Posted by L4ces View Post
I was curious about the horsepower and how it fairs to other S65 racing engines. I don't if this is an apple and oranges comparison. I don't know much about this subject but I like hearing about all that is going on.

Anyway, this article reads "his BMW S65 V8 should crank out between 560-570 hp and the rpm range runs up through 8,600-8,700 rpm." http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2017...s65-v8-engine/

And KMS' video shows 6xx HP (maybe the dyno is different etc).

Of course we have the regular guys on this forum building engines as well and might even play a part in the background with your builder (you never know).
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      08-24-2017, 07:06 PM   #22
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INCREDIBLE. I applaud your work and dedication. There will be nothing like this!

Last edited by buddalun; 09-24-2017 at 09:43 PM.
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