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      07-19-2019, 09:51 AM   #1
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Color Combinations Effect on Pricing

What, if any, effect do you feel color combinations have on the pricing / value of an E9x?

Specifically, in the case of say a 2011.5-.75 E90 ZCP 6MT, what many remark as becoming more difficult to find with low(er) miles and in good condition, how much does the color combination move the needle in your book, if the rest of the package is right, and there simply aren't many to begin with?

Even more specifically, how about the case of Alpine White over extended Silver Novillo? One could argue that this unusual combo in a ZCP 6MT E90 is "rare", but rarity doesn't (always) mean an increase in value, and if it's deemed less desirable, do you adjust pricing much?
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      07-22-2019, 08:24 AM   #2
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interesting question

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Originally Posted by meticulist View Post
What, if any, effect do you feel color combinations have on the pricing / value of an E9x?

Specifically, in the case of say a 2011.5-.75 E90 ZCP 6MT, what many remark as becoming more difficult to find with low(er) miles and in good condition, how much does the color combination move the needle in your book, if the rest of the package is right, and there simply aren't many to begin with?

Even more specifically, how about the case of Alpine White over extended Silver Novillo? One could argue that this unusual combo in a ZCP 6MT E90 is "rare", but rarity doesn't (always) mean an increase in value, and if it's deemed less desirable, do you adjust pricing much?
i've pondered this myself. bottom line, different strokes for different folks and any given buyer will probably drop a few more bucks if needed to get the color that he or she wants.

Spec is most important....and at the top of the heap is ZCP, 6MT, slicktop/CF roof, speedcloth, nav-delete.... in that order.

That being said i would venture that lemans blue, interlagos blue, and melbourne red are probably at the top of the standard colors in terms of buyer premiums...... how much of a premium? complete guess here: 5%.

I think individual colors are probably fetching on average more like a 10-15% premium depending on the color.

the frozen cars don't seem to get much love on the resale market for a variety of reasons i'd venture.
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      07-22-2019, 02:29 PM   #3
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Thanks for the reply, and I agree with all the point you make. Most seem pretty oriented to exterior color, what effect does interior color have? Especially because the interior colors seem to be less subjective based on the offerings.
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      07-22-2019, 05:00 PM   #4
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interior

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Originally Posted by meticulist View Post
Thanks for the reply, and I agree with all the point you make. Most seem pretty oriented to exterior color, what effect does interior color have? Especially because the interior colors seem to be less subjective based on the offerings.
i personally don't believe that interior color has a substantive effect on price. however, I do think all things being equal a car with speedcloth would be bought before others. Fox Red probably a close second. Also strictly personally speaking, i do not like the silver or either of the two-tone options. Folks will all have their own preferences.
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      07-22-2019, 09:02 PM   #5
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Fox Red has always been sought after, especially if it's the full leather.

Speed Cloth is fairly rare but I don't think most people want it in a car with that sort of price tag (even used). The track guys want it because it's lighter.
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      08-04-2019, 09:23 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meticulist View Post
What, if any, effect do you feel color combinations have on the pricing / value of an E9x?

Specifically, in the case of say a 2011.5-.75 E90 ZCP 6MT, what many remark as becoming more difficult to find with low(er) miles and in good condition, how much does the color combination move the needle in your book, if the rest of the package is right, and there simply aren't many to begin with?

Even more specifically, how about the case of Alpine White over extended Silver Novillo? One could argue that this unusual combo in a ZCP 6MT E90 is "rare", but rarity doesn't (always) mean an increase in value, and if it's deemed less desirable, do you adjust pricing much?

Addressing the general question of color combinations as they affect pricing, I have to say "it depends". Waffle words, but true. Let me explain.

When each generation of M3 first comes out, the dealers all order the basics: white, black, silver/gray. Anything that comes into dealer stock generally fits those 3 colors. If you look at total production Alpine White dominates the E92 with nearly 28 percent of production and comes in 2nd place on the E90 with nearly 21 percent. The first color outside the basic 3, Interlagos Blue Metallic, doesn't even crack 6 percent of total production across both models.

The blues and reds sell very little compared to any of the basic 3 colors, and its most likely because they would be build-to-order cars and many of the buyers would not want to wait. The Individual orders happen at a very reduced rate due to the hefty price tag BMW charges. When a person has a choice between getting a Competition pkg with full leather OR a rare color, what do they usually take? Still, there is a small bump for Individual buyers in the first year, as the deep wallets want their own private version of the new model.

As the model nears end-of-production there's another bump for Individual buyers who want their own private version of the car that is among the last of that model run, while the dealers are still ordering the basic 3 and people are buying dealer stock.

In the first few years after end-of-production, latecomers - still the same people who would go after the basic 3 but couldn't buy because it the time wasn't right for them during the production run - now enter the market and chase the basic colors because that is what the dealers are taking in trades and offering as CPO. I think dealers send the low-production colors to auction because they're afraid of anything outside the basic 3, but I have nothing to back up that theory. Its just a hunch.

Then the market changes. The 2nd generation enthusiast-buyers get involved. People who waited out the depreciation hit and are now looking for their car. The basic 3 as the most common are relatively available and lower in value as the enthusiasts are looking for something out of the ordinary. Enthusiast-buyers want daily drivers just like the original buyers, but they're also looking for HPDE, autoX and track cars. The more common colors are easier to obtain and they're the ones that get beat on. I rarely see blue or red track cars. The blues start rising in value, the reds not as much. This summer those color cars all but vanished from the market. I have a very hard time finding any Interlagos or LeMans Blue car now. And the ones I do find are sunroof cars. I've seen maybe two Melbourne red cars for sale this summer.

Finally, the collector-enthusiasts arrive. These are the people who want to be on top of the value curve, something that they can proudly proclaim as "one of xx", or better yet "one of x!" and I can't blame them. I always buy from the basic 3 colors, and I always want a rare color after the fact. I loathed Phoenix Yellow when I ordered my E46 M3s but now I think it looks amazing. I own Space Grey but I'd really like a LeMans Blue car, or better yet, an Individual color like Atlantis or LSB.

While this progression takes place, the basic 3 color cars are sold and traded more often, because they are more common. The value on them gets hit harder, sooner. This has the feedback effect of causing people with rarer colors to drive them less, which supports their value. I personally have never seen a 100k+ mile LeMans Blue E92M (I'm sure they exist) but I routinely see very high mile basic 3 color cars, especially white and silver/gray. Also, shopping fatigue plays a part in value. When I shop now, I quickly scroll past cars in the basic 3 colors because they all look the same to me. When I see any of the blues, they jump out at me and I'll spend more time looking at them. I don't like red at all, but if I see a Melbourne car, or Fox interior, I'll spend time looking at them because they are rarer. The only time I look at a basic 3 color is if its a low-production variant like Ruby Black, Moonstone, Azurite Black.

As far as the interiors, cloth is not desirable to initial buyers yet it becomes a tremendously sought-after option to collector-enthusiasts. The E36 M3s with factory Rain or Cross fabric pull a higher price (and they usually show less wear than E36 leather), and so do factory MCloth E46 M3s (which shows less wear but stain extremely easy and are near impossible to clean). For colors, Bamboo Beige is regarded as less-valuable here on the forum, but the E93 M3 I brought home in 2009 was white on beige, and I test drove a 2013 in Mineral White over Bamboo a year ago - both looked beautiful to me. Beige was seldom ordered but looks very interesting with certain colors like the blacks, the aforementioned whites, and Melbourne Red. Expect cars with those interiors to sell at a slight premium in the years to come as collectors chase them.

The one less common option I expect to never increase in value will be the two-tone leather interior. I have no idea who at BMW thought that looked good. They remind me of when the owners of classic VW Beetles put t-shirts over their seats to protect them from the sun.

Other considerations are lack of the gadgetry that drives in-production sales. NAV is ordered on all dealer stock, so are power seats. But if you find a single hump car with manual cloth seats now, you have a garage full of desirable value on your hands.
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      08-04-2019, 09:29 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRF View Post
i personally don't believe that interior color has a substantive effect on price. however, I do think all things being equal a car with speedcloth would be bought before others. Fox Red probably a close second. Also strictly personally speaking, i do not like the silver or either of the two-tone options. Folks will all have their own preferences.
Just a couple of years ago, SpeedCloth cars sat and waited for buyers. Now they are the first ones gone, all other things being equal. I remember watching a SpeedCloth Lime Rock sit and sit and sit. Now that thing is an easy $10k over any other Lime Rock. Manual seats too.

This is only tangentially related to the OP question, but...

Aside from the Individual cars, I think that the highest value of any production E9X would be a low-mile Lime Rock, 6speed, manual seats, non-NAV, black wheels. I think there's less than 6 of them, but I may be wrong.
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      08-04-2019, 10:31 AM   #8
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unicorn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freiheit View Post
Just a couple of years ago, SpeedCloth cars sat and waited for buyers. Now they are the first ones gone, all other things being equal. I remember watching a SpeedCloth Lime Rock sit and sit and sit. Now that thing is an easy $10k over any other Lime Rock. Manual seats too.

This is only tangentially related to the OP question, but...

Aside from the Individual cars, I think that the highest value of any production E9X would be a low-mile Lime Rock, 6speed, manual seats, non-NAV, black wheels. I think there's less than 6 of them, but I may be wrong.
i know where one of them is......big surprise. And it's not even for sale.

http://enthusiastauto.com/qsearch/?i...orm_display=51
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      08-04-2019, 10:41 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRF View Post
i know where one of them is......big surprise. And it's not even for sale.

http://enthusiastauto.com/qsearch/?i...orm_display=51
Of course not. And how much do you want to bet he got that car for a steal?

Every time someone I know goes to a dealer to trade in a stick car, they're told "no one orders these, they don't sell, we're going to have to send it to auction most likely because we don't want it sitting here".

Then when someone comes to look at it, the dealers are all "OMG rare 6speed Manual LQQk !!!"
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      08-04-2019, 11:56 AM   #10
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Pretty solid and well thought out analysis by Freiheit - I completely agree.

I bought a LeMans Blue E92 last year. While the car is not special, outside of color, I can tell you I paid more for it than I would have for a white, black, or silver.

I'm a "enthusiast-collector" type and was waiting, specifically, for a blue or red M3 for months before I bought mine.

Few Notes:

I wouldn't touch a car with cloth or carbon roof, I don't care how desirable it is.

- Cloth is fart sponge and is the absolute worst option on a car, to me.

- I'm also a avid sunroof user. I use it constantly. Almost Every car I've owned had a sunroof, cars without are a non-starter.

- I also wouldn't take a car without nav. I hate the single hump, it reminds me of the bare-bones 328i loaner the BMW dealership used to give me when my 535 was in the shop (the 328 was absolute shit).

- I DO wish my car was a manual, but I've grown to love the DCT.

The M3 is not my daily, but that's how I feel.


I paid $26,400 for my car from a local dealership with 75k miles. Personally, I think the the car was worth about $25k. I made an offer for $24k and it was rejected. The dealership was nice but he'd only had the car for 24 hours and there were 19 watchers on the eBay listing. He told be he couldn't budge in price but if the car was still here in a week he'd entertain reasonable offers.

The car wouldn't be, there was only one other LMB M3 for sale in the country at the time, about 1000 miles away for a couple grand more with similar miles/options. So I paid asking price. I WOULD NOT have done that for a white or black M3. So he made a grand or so more than he would have, plus he had to spend very little time/money marketing the car.

To me, the Blue was worth about $1,000 - $2,000 more, as well as waiting a few months extra while shopping for a car I've wanted for a very long time. I am NOT a patient person, my friends and family were shocked I was so patient and diligent in my search for a Blue M3 (I was also interested in Melbourne Red at the time).
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      08-04-2019, 08:26 PM   #11
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Interesting analysis, thanks for the comments. I guess where I was coming from is in the case of the first post, just because a particular combination is less common, does that really impact price, especially if it's not typically seen as a desirable combo?

The silver novillo in particular always struck me as an odd spec and not one I would want to own. It's starting to grow on me, but speedcloth and even two-tone aside, would an odd color combo really impact how you price a car?
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      08-04-2019, 09:03 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meticulist View Post
Interesting analysis, thanks for the comments. I guess where I was coming from is in the case of the first post, just because a particular combination is less common, does that really impact price, especially if it's not typically seen as a desirable combo?

The silver novillo in particular always struck me as an odd spec and not one I would want to own. It's starting to grow on me, but speedcloth and even two-tone aside, would an odd color combo really impact how you price a car?
It still goes back to what I said earlier: "it depends".

It depends on if the colors clash or not. A Bamboo interior under Jet Black isn't jarring but I think under Interlagos Blue its the visual parallel to an air horn. Palladium silver would look just... wrong... in a Speed Yellow car, but it might work in Jerez Black. Recently, someone here had a Moonstone over Palladium, and another person had Brilliant White over a very pale leather I'd never heard of. Both worked very well. And I would never have thought of any of those colors together.

It depends on whether the car has an odd spec that certain people can make a case for, and then start a ripple effect that introduces new people to that spec and therefore increases demand. Witness the people who saw that Imola over LSB car last week. First impressions were that it was a pretty bad clash. Then some people stepped in to talk about their logic behind liking it. If that grows, demand for that kind of combo increases. Someone would say "this is probably my only chance to buy something this unique" and there goes the car. It'll be an emotional decision too, so the dealer will get close to asking price, then.

For me, it depends on a rare spec with the items I want on the option list, all put together in a build that draws the eyes and keeps me coming back to look. I'm personally happy with my basic 3 Space Grey over Black, but if I ever found a real unicorn... well, I guess I'd have to add space to my garage. I'm picturing something like Atlantis, Laguna Seca, or Sakhir Orange or maybe Valencia Orange. I dig Rust Brown interiors, along with LSB and Kiwi. There's others out there I haven't even heard of too, and thats what makes this such a fascinating search.
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      08-04-2019, 09:34 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjm41 View Post
Pretty solid and well thought out analysis by Freiheit - I completely agree.
Thanks.



Quote:
Originally Posted by cjm41 View Post
- Cloth is fart sponge and is the absolute worst option on a car, to me.

- I'm also a avid sunroof user. I use it constantly. Almost Every car I've owned had a sunroof, cars without are a non-starter.

- I also wouldn't take a car without nav. I hate the single hump, it reminds me of the bare-bones 328i loaner the BMW dealership used to give me when my 535 was in the shop (the 328 was absolute shit).

- I DO wish my car was a manual, but I've grown to love the DCT.
You're right about the fart sponge thing, man you're right. (I'll tell you a non-BMW story about that some time.) However, I don't allow farts in the car - even my own brand. I would hope that every other M3 owner is the same. My two MCloth cars definitely did not have any odor in the seats.

Sunroofs.. well, I had those in all my previous M3s. I think I used them in all three cars a total of a dozen times. I bought them strictly for resale value. I wouldn't mind having an E93, but Florida is too hot, and the traffic is way too bad now to even use any kind of open top on a car. I'd hate to drive around in that with the top up all year just for those few weeks in January when the temperature drops into the 60s. And the humidity... man. Its ok in the shade at 7:30 in the morning but after that, I'm looking for AC and cover.

For NAV, I'm the guy who looks at a map before I go anywhere I don't know my way around. I wouldn't know the first thing about setting NAV up for a destination even if I did want to use it, and I'm fine with that.
What I do want is a nice display for my music data and car info, therefore I have the NAV screen. The bump doesn't bother me either way.

I had both a 6sp manual E46 as well as SMG. I liked both. I didn't care which of the transmissions was in whatever E92 I bought, I just wanted my colors, heated seats, and the Individual Audio. One of the people here commented that he couldn't believe I would not have a preference. My wife has driven manual cars her entire life and refused to own anything automatic, so manual has been the house rule for over a decade. My DCT car came up for sale on a routine search and I got it for a fantastic price. Then I had a semi-severe knee injury, she had a similar problem, and I decided to get rid of all of our stick vehicles. I bought three cars in a very short period of time, I was able to keep the M3 as it turned out that the DCT purchase was the right thing for me. Now my knee is better and I can actually drive stick for an hour or so. But I doubt I'll get a car just for that hour a week. If I do I might look at a true exotic just so I feel more justified having it parked most of its life.



Quote:
Originally Posted by cjm41 View Post
I paid $26,400 for my car from a local dealership with 75k miles. Personally, I think the the car was worth about $25k. I made an offer for $24k and it was rejected. The dealership was nice but he'd only had the car for 24 hours and there were 19 watchers on the eBay listing. He told be he couldn't budge in price but if the car was still here in a week he'd entertain reasonable offers.

The car wouldn't be, there was only one other LMB M3 for sale in the country at the time, about 1000 miles away for a couple grand more with similar miles/options. So I paid asking price. I WOULD NOT have done that for a white or black M3. So he made a grand or so more than he would have, plus he had to spend very little time/money marketing the car.

To me, the Blue was worth about $1,000 - $2,000 more, as well as waiting a few months extra while shopping for a car I've wanted for a very long time. I am NOT a patient person, my friends and family were shocked I was so patient and diligent in my search for a Blue M3 (I was also interested in Melbourne Red at the time).
Thats what I'm talking about. You waited for your color, you paid a premium but you were ok with that. That is what I'm trying to get across to the OP here. Desire for the spec will bring a premium when supply can't meet demand. That is why Individual colors almost always bring higher prices, and production colors that had paltry numbers end up being more desirable.

Your car looks incredible, BTW, and you didn't do too bad on the price. I saw you driving it down 9th street a few months back, around 11am or so on a Saturday when I was in town. The exhaust sounded excellent, so if that was still the one you were complaining about months ago that had the leak, I wouldn't worry.
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