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[PACarGuy]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

I liked them as cheap DD tires for my old WRX. Were they ever hyped for their performance? I thought it was always about their value proposition.

Yeah, I guess it was skewed towards performance for the money, but they were highly regarded by Tire Rack reviewers and in tire comparos such as this one:

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...12-evo-page-10

"“Deceptively quick” is a good summation of the Hankook Ventus V12 Evos because they often didn’t feel as strong as they actually were, particularly in the dry.
...
In the wet, however, the V12s were as sporty and connected as they come, with grip second only to the PS2s’ and the best braking. ...Subjectively, they felt the best around the track, even though their time trailed slightly behind the Dunlops’.

With above-average wet and dry performances, and tying for quietest on the street loop, the V12 Evo is an impressive and well-rounded summer tire. And, at $106, it’s a bargain, too."

Complete BS other than being quiet and cheap.

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by SFCM3

Are the ECS that much better than their predecessor DW? I HATED the conti DW, they were stiff, noisy, and had no audible warning before breaking traction. to top it off they had terrible tread wear for a tire that rode that stiff. I am in the market for a new set of tires on the e90m, seems like the PSS is no longer made in alot of 19" sizes, so PS4 or ECS seem to be the only good options...

Your reference point seems to be a much softer tire as the DW, in terms of high performance tires, is actually extremely soft and mushy. In fact, it was hands down, by a mile, the most comfortable sport tire I've ever used. Notably more comfortable than a Pilot Sport AS3, even.

It was also probably the worst 'handling' sport tire I've ever used. Mind you, it had pretty good grip BUT the response and mid-corner stability was so bad that the front and rear axles were never in-phase - the car would literally sway within the tires. Utter crap but supremely comfortable.

Point is - if you think the DW was stiff you won't like a true performance tire.

Originally Posted by PACarGuy

Complete BS other than being quiet and cheap.

Ha, totally. I too got sucked into them way back when and they only lasted a couple months. Very shitty tire. But they looked good. Rode like shit, gripped like shit.

Originally Posted by 6ixSpd

I've been a Michelin loyalist for over a decade, but for the first time ever I would actually opt for something other than their Pilot Sport line. For the $ difference, ECS wins hands down especially for street use. If you're driving hard enough to need better tires (on the street or track), then you probably wouldn't be looking at either of these to begin with.

Yeah, but how do they ride over sharp edges compared to the PSS?

I need tires for the E90M and the price difference between the ECS and PS4S is only $150 (stock 19" sizes) and am a HUGE PSS fan and so I'm 99.9% sold on the PS4S. It will take a compelling argument to get me to save the $150 and go for the ECS.

How do they ride?
How do they grip?
How do they respond?
How do they wear?
How well do they protect the rims? (The PSS/4S have beefy rim protectors which are both functional AND look killer)

[BayE30]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Your reference point seems to be a much softer tire as the DW, in terms of high performance tires, is actually extremely soft and mushy. In fact, it was hands down, by a mile, the most comfortable sport tire I've every used.

I was also probably the worst 'handling' sport tire I've ever used. Mind you, it had pretty good grip BUT the response and mid-corner stability was so bad that the front and rear axles were never in-phase - the car would literally sway within the tires. Utter crap but supremely comfortable.

Point is - if you think the DW was stiff you won't like a true performance tire.

interesting perspective. my last car i ran PSS as a daily, before that was S03, before that was Falken RT615k, before that Toyo T1R, before that was Advan tires.... So point is i have driven many performance tires on my DD cars, and the continental DW was still a terrible tire.

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by SFCM3

interesting perspective. my last car i ran PSS as a daily, before that was S03, before that was Falken RT615k, before that Toyo T1R, before that was Advan tires.... So point is i have driven many performance tires on my DD cars, and the continental DW was still a terrible tire.

Oh yes, it definitely sucked - borderline scary on canyon runs. But is was smooooooooooth.

[Richbot]

FWIW, I'm at 12,000 miles and 5-5.5/32" on my ECS. The hydroplane resistance, evne with 285's up front, is still really really good, and there is no increase in noise at this tread depth, or at least not like the PSS, which got loud on my car once they get down in this range. The PSS started to get a little skatey in the rain/cold, where the ECS keeps gripping in the cold/wet, but that's been true since new

I went from 18's to 17's when I switched to the ECS, so I can't say I can give an honest direct comparison, but the 285/40-17 square ECS's ride worlds better than the 275/35-275/40-18 setup I had on the car previously, all on ET25 10" wheels. It's legitimately cushy over expansion joints etc., in comparison. But much of that is likely due to the big fat nascar sidewalls

[dparm]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Yeah, but how do they ride over sharp edges compared to the PSS?

I need tires for the E90M and the price difference between the ECS and PS4S is only $150 (stock 19" sizes) and am a HUGE PSS fan and so I'm 99.9% sold on the PS4S. It will take a compelling argument to get me to save the $150 and go for the ECS.

So this is a surprisingly common discussion on the Corvette forums since the Z06/GS only have 3 tire choices: PSS ZP, ECS, and PSC2 ZP. We don't yet have the PS4S.

Based on what I have read on there, the ECS is about on-par with the PSS. However, the PS4S is "better" than the PSS in most regards -- so if you're okay with not having the absolute latest and greatest, save the $150 and get the ECS.

Ultimately I think it's a bit of splitting hairs. Unless you are constantly driving the tires at the limit, or have a butt dyno in the top 1%, many of these tires will feel the same under normal use. The Tire Rack tests mostly echo this: the tires are just about even across the board. Dry and wet lap times are so damn close that you're basically looking at normal driver variability as the margin of error.

[EricSMG]

Originally Posted by dparm

So this is a surprisingly common discussion on the Corvette forums since the Z06/GS only have 3 tire choices: PSS ZP, ECS, and PSC2 ZP. We don't yet have the PS4S.

Based on what I have read on there, the ECS is about on-par with the PSS. However, the PS4S is "better" than the PSS in most regards -- so if you're okay with not having the absolute latest and greatest, save the $150 and get the ECS.

Ultimately I think it's a bit of splitting hairs. Unless you are constantly driving the tires at the limit, or have a butt dyno in the top 1%, many of these tires will feel the same under normal use. The Tire Rack tests mostly echo this: the tires are just about even across the board. Dry and wet lap times are so damn close that you're basically looking at normal driver variability as the margin of error.

Good post.

I went with the 4S'. They are the "no risk" option for me. I want the best possible ride quality with the best possible wet/dry response/grip and overall, Michelin has always been the best at this.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by EricSMG

Good post.

I went with the 4S'. They are the "no risk" option for me. I want the best possible ride quality with the best possible wet/dry response/grip and overall, Michelin has always been the best at this.

Michelin has a long string of successes since the PSS days. I'm a huge fan of their products, to the point I don't have to wonder which tire is best.

Whether it's the PS4s, PSS, AS3+, Alpin PA4, IceX3... they are all phenomenal

[CSBM5]

I just installed a new set of PS4S on my M3 also. 255/35-19 and 275/35-19 on 9.5/10.5 Apex wheels. They're replacing PSS in same size, that where were on 220Ms, which although have a fair amount of tread remaining are now 6 years old and aging/heat cycling out; so new wheels, new tires.

They feel fantastic from what little driving I've done on them in two days. I really like the 9.5/255 and 10.5/275 setup -- just the right amount of wheel to really support each tire. I also have a set of 10x18 with RE-71Rs, 275/35, and I would really like to take both to an event where I can back-to-back run them and get actual timed data...but I'm too lazy in my old age, sigh.

The thing I've always liked about Michelin is the quality of their manufacturing processes -- these things were once again essentially perfect on the Hunter machine. Tires have three uniformity measures: mass uniformity, stiffness uniformity, and dimensional uniformity, and however they do it, Michelin always seems to provide excellent uniformity out of their manufacturing process (as measured by little balance weight required on perfect wheels, no out of line wobble in radial or axial dimension when spun up on machine, and very low roadforce measurements).