BMW claims rotors need to be replaced with every pad replacement?!?!

[lucid]

Originally Posted by gr8000

Can you use aftermarket pads (like pagids) and make use of the OEM pad wear sensor? Will the system calculate correctly remaining pad life?

The pad wear sensor is a simple dedicated contact sensor. When the pads are worn to the threshold thickness, the sensor makes contact with the rotor and a part of it wears out, a curcuit is closed, and the red brake light on the dash comes on.

The I-drive reading has nothing to do with that although it can also trigger the brake light on the dash (I think it goes yellow first). I assume it processes data from some of the other sensors such as accelerometers, and/or speedometer to predict when you need to replace your pads, and is not all that accurate when the car experiences track conditions.

[py0413]

Originally Posted by slammedm3

not true my friend

there is an additional warranty you can buy for your car for $1000 bucks, and it covers your brakes and clutch for 3 years I believe. it must be done when the car is new or less than 1 year old (or 20 000 km)

that additional charge apply to ONLY 1 full brake replacement and I think it is more than 1k you have to spend at the time purchasing the car. If I don't come across to some cheap OEM brake parts when it comes to replacing, I will upgrade to BBK for sure.

[CSMRX7]

Well with my 29.7mm of rotor I think I will be fine. I would like to see how well the stock brakes do on the track, so will be throwing in either Pagid RS-19 or Carbotech XP-12s in the spring.

[gr8000]

Originally Posted by lucid

The pad wear sensor is a simple dedicated contact sensor. When the pads are worn to the threshold thickness, the sensor makes contact with the rotor and a part of it wears out, a curcuit is closed, and the red brake light on the dash comes on.

The I-drive reading has nothing to do with that although it can also trigger the brake light on the dash (I think it goes yellow first). I assume it processes data from some of the other sensors such as accelerometers, and/or speedometer to predict when you need to replace your pads, and is not all that accurate when the car experiences track conditions.

Thanks. On the first part of my question I was basically aiming to ask if the aftermarket pads have the necessary slot to fit in the wear sensors. Sorry for not being clear on that.

For the second part, thanks for the good info. So the system estimates remaining pad life based on hard data on the way the car is driven (utilising sensors) and uses some sort of an algorythm to estimate pad wear based on the properties of the OEM pad material. Then the question is, will this same algorythm produce good results also for non-OEM pad compounds? In my mind no, but I guess it depends on how different are the wear characteristics of the OEM pads versus the non-OEM pads. If the non-OEM pad wears less (eg if it is harder) then the algorythm will underestimate the remaining life of the non-OEM pads. Or is my logic incorrect?

[lucid]

Originally Posted by gr8000

Thanks. On the first part of my question I was basically aiming to ask if the aftermarket pads have the necessary slot to fit in the wear sensors. Sorry for not being clear on that.

Pagids will accomodate the OEM wear sensors. Carbotechs have the cavity built-in, but the bonding agent they use seems to overflow and fill it, deeming it unusable--happened to me twice now. Regardless, on the track, I just watch the pad thickness manually. I don't want the red light to come on, as you need a tool to reset that, and replacing the worn out contact sensor will not get rid of it. You don't want to wear you pads down on the track that much to begin with anyway.

Originally Posted by gr8000

For the second part, thanks for the good info. So the system estimates remaining pad life based on hard data on the way the car is driven (utilising sensors) and uses some sort of an algorythm to estimate pad wear based on the properties of the OEM pad material. Then the question is, will this same algorythm produce good results also for non-OEM pad compounds? In my mind no, but I guess it depends on how different are the wear characteristics of the OEM pads versus the non-OEM pads. If the non-OEM pad wears less (eg if it is harder) then the algorythm will underestimate the remaining life of the non-OEM pads. Or is my logic incorrect?

I don't have hard evidence to prove that's what the system is doing, but I don't see how else it could be arriving at the number of miles to service reading. I don't see how that it is based on some kind of actual measurement done on the pad, so processing of the vehicle performance data seems to be a realistic method.

[Dascamel]

Originally Posted by gr8000

Can you use aftermarket pads (like pagids) and make use of the OEM pad wear sensor? Will the system calculate correctly remaining pad life?

Some pads have the groove for the sensor, not sure about the pagids. I'm leaning on not even using the sensor for the track, saving that for the stock setup. Not looking forward to swapping pads for street vs track but it needs to be done. Last track day was horrible, pad transfer made it feel like I was driving on rumble strips while braking.

The cars computer doesn't know which pad is in use, so the it will estimate an early demise of the stock pads. Easy fix is just resetting it... The computer is already way off and indicating new brakes on my stock setup, getting them checked just to exactly how much is left.

[M3 vert]

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

You ar mixing the terms "warranty" and "maintenance". Warranties cover defective parts, maintenance plans cover service.

How am I mixing the two?

I am fully aware of the 4yrs.80KM Warranty which includes bumper to bumper warranty and scheduled maintenance here in Canada (Oil Changes etc...)

the All-Inclusive Service Package is additional coverage which supplements the 4yrs/80K coverage is offered for 4yrs/80K or 5yrs/96K (also note the K means Kilometres!)
This includes wear and tear items such as mentioned earlier, brake pads, rotors, clutch, wiper blades, and other adjustments!

So I was responding to SlammedM3's response!

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

Originally Posted by slammedm3
not true my friend

there is an additional warranty you can buy for your car for $1000 bucks, and it covers your brakes and clutch for 3 years I believe. it must be done when the car is new or less than 1 year old (or 20 000 km)

I know it works differently in US, but the OP is in CANADA!!!

So if he gets this all-inclusive coverage he would be covered for brakes and everything else in the wear and tear dept!

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by M3 vert

How am I mixing the two?

I am fully aware of the 4yrs.80KM Warranty which includes bumper to bumper warranty and scheduled maintenance here in Canada (Oil Changes etc...)

Just semantics, but the "Warranty" covers product defects; the "Maintenance plan" covers scheduled service. Maintenance is not part of the warranty program, though they have the same term for coverages.

"New Car Limited Warranty.
BMW Canada Inc. (BMW Canada) warrants to the first retail purchaser, and each subsequent purchaser, of Canadian specification vehicles imported by BMW Canada, or sold through the BMW Canada European Delivery Program to be free of defects in material or workmanship."

"No-charge Scheduled Maintenance.
From model year 2006 on, BMW vehicles purchased from an authorized BMW Retailer in Canada are covered by No-charge Scheduled Maintenance for 4 years or 80,000 kilometres, whichever occurs first. Coverage begins on the date of first retail sale or the date the vehicle is first placed in service as a demonstrator or company vehicle, whichever is earlier."

The Maintenance Upgrade plan includes coverage for consumables like brakes, which the US gets as standard.

[M3 vert]

Greg,

No offense but you dont have to break this for me, i know these things, this isnt my first BMW

Warranty and Scheduled Maintenance are two seperate things and they are rolled into one coverage from the factory which is how you explained it!

The OP has a canadian M3 which is why I recommended him to purchase the maintenance upgrade to cover his brakes! (Also in response to slammedm3's post, I went over the pricing)
In addition this upgrade is also refered to as all-inclusive service plan!

Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon

Just semantics, but the "Warranty" covers product defects; the "Maintenance plan" covers scheduled service. Maintenance is not part of the warranty program, though they have the same term for coverages.

"New Car Limited Warranty.
BMW Canada Inc. (BMW Canada) warrants to the first retail purchaser, and each subsequent purchaser, of Canadian specification vehicles imported by BMW Canada, or sold through the BMW Canada European Delivery Program to be free of defects in material or workmanship."

"No-charge Scheduled Maintenance.
From model year 2006 on, BMW vehicles purchased from an authorized BMW Retailer in Canada are covered by No-charge Scheduled Maintenance for 4 years or 80,000 kilometres, whichever occurs first. Coverage begins on the date of first retail sale or the date the vehicle is first placed in service as a demonstrator or company vehicle, whichever is earlier."

The Maintenance Upgrade plan includes coverage for consumables like brakes, which the US gets as standard.

[Scharbag]

So, yeah, I googled E92 M3 rotor life and got routed to this thread...

I have to say that I have never ever read so much misinformation in a single thread in my life. Wow.

Change rotors with pads... LMFAO. BMW kool-aid must be pretty tasty.

[jritt@essex]

Originally Posted by CSMRX7

Is BMW trying to pull one on me?

Yes.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by CSMRX7

Is BMW trying to pull one on me?

Originally Posted by jritt@essex

Yes.

Not so fast. I mean, when your rod bearings wear out BMW makes you replace the motor, so this seem legit.

[TrAcK TRaP]

Originally Posted by Scharbag

So, yeah, I googled E92 M3 rotor life and got routed to this thread...

I have to say that I have never ever read so much misinformation in a single thread in my life. Wow.

Change rotors with pads... LMFAO. BMW kool-aid must be pretty tasty.

Holy moly batman. You bumped 9 years old thread up.

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by TrAcK TRaP

Holy moly batman. You bumped 9 years old thread up.

Yup, yup I did.

Mostly because Google directed me to this absolute sequence of drivel...

YOU NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER NEED TO CHANGE ROTORS AND PADS AT THE SAME TIME UNLESS THE ROTORS ARE FUKED.

There - that is the truth of the matter.

Snoochy boochy!!

[TrAcK TRaP]

Originally Posted by Scharbag

Yup, yup I did.

Mostly because Google directed me to this absolute sequence of drivel...

YOU NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER NEED TO CHANGE ROTORS AND PADS AT THE SAME TIME UNLESS THE ROTORS ARE FUKED.

There - that is the truth of the matter.

Snoochy boochy!!

It depends how you drive your car actually. Oem pads would last up to 60-70K miles so when you replace your pads without rotors you'll get another 60-70K with new pads but rotors wouldn't last 130-140K miles because bmw's rotors are softer than other cars rotors due to strong stopping power. Rears you should get away but I can't tell same about fronts. Your car your choice.

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by TrAcK TRaP

It depends how you drive your car actually. Oem pads would last up to 60-70K miles so when you replace your pads without rotors you'll get another 60-70K with new pads but rotors wouldn't last 130-140K miles because bmw's rotors are softer than other cars rotors due to strong stopping power. Rears you should get away but I can't tell same about fronts. Your car your choice.

Pads are cheap (not race pads, normal pads). So if the ridiculously expensive M3 rotors are OK (not warped, not too thin, not cracking) then put in new pads. Once the rotors NEED to be replaced, then change the rotors and pads. That way you get 100% of the wear out of your expensive rotors while wasting a minimal bit of money on the pads.

Cheers,