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      06-19-2018, 11:46 AM   #1
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Lightbulb Official data acquisition & telemetry thread

This topic seems to permeate a lot of the discussions in this forum, so I figured it would be best if we broke it out into a dedicated thread.

Some objectives should be to discuss various data acquisition hardware & software, share math channel formulas, discuss practical application of theory, share analysis strategies, solicit feedback, etc.

Mods, can we sticky this?
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      06-19-2018, 11:57 AM   #2
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I'll start. I am using Cosworth Pi Toolbox Lite which is the native software for the Chevy Performance Data Recorder (PDR) hardware found in Corvettes, Camaros, and Cadillac V-series cars. The capabilities are very similar to AIM Race Studio. This is the free version but there is a paid upgrade that allows for more worksheets, video comparison, etc.

GM/Cosworth actually do not broadly advertise that the PDR files will work in here, and instead direct you to a dumbed-down version of it known as Cosworth Toolbox for (brand). I still find this useful since it allows me to have the video overlay, something that costs about a grand in Pi Toolbox as part of the upgrade.

Attached is a screenshot of one of my primary worksheet/dashboard with two laps worth of data, zoomed all the way out to show the entire lap at once. I had to downsize it a bit due to forum limitations.
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      06-19-2018, 01:51 PM   #3
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I found the best CAN profile for use with the AIM Solo 2 DL and I'll be logging those various items as well as GPS data for use with their bottled analysis software. Im just getting started, so we'll see how straightforward it is.

I heard that the new ZR1 (and others?) log wheel position on all four corners. If so, that is a pretty incredible suspension tuning tool.

I spend a lot of time working with staff in my career distilling data into information and then into actionable intelligence. I'd be concerned with that much data- are you able to find the picture among the pixels?
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      06-19-2018, 01:53 PM   #4
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What is everyone's opinion of the original AIM Solo DL? I thought about grabbing one of those cheap since the Solo 2 just came out and someone is probably going to upgrade.

I've been using Harry's Laptimer + Bad Elf 10Hz GPS module, and merging that data with video in RaceRender, but I'd love to start pulling some data off the car.
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      06-19-2018, 02:14 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_PDX View Post
I've been using Harry's Laptimer + Bad Elf 10Hz GPS module, and merging that data with video in RaceRender, but I'd love to start pulling some data off the car.
While no where near as much data as AiM, if you bought an OBD device and used it with HLT, it could provide basic data, mine shows Throttle %, Coolant Temp, speed, rpm, gps data.
HLT no allows custom PIDs which should allow to log oil temps now, we just need to know the ID the car uses. I haven't tried this yet but plan to for my next track day.
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      06-19-2018, 02:19 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Visceral View Post
I heard that the new ZR1 (and others?) log wheel position on all four corners. If so, that is a pretty incredible suspension tuning tool.

I spend a lot of time working with staff in my career distilling data into information and then into actionable intelligence. I'd be concerned with that much data- are you able to find the picture among the pixels?

Late production 2017 Corvettes and beyond have yaw sensor data, individual wheel speed sensor data, and individual MRC shock data.

Unfortunately mine does not have that but with some clever math channels you can infer some of it.
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      06-19-2018, 02:40 PM   #7
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FYI AIM does have a YouTube channel with some decent tutorials and seminars, even if you are using something like HLT:

https://www.youtube.com/user/aimdata
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      06-19-2018, 02:58 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_PDX View Post
What is everyone's opinion of the original AIM Solo DL? I thought about grabbing one of those cheap since the Solo 2 just came out and someone is probably going to upgrade.

I've been using Harry's Laptimer + Bad Elf 10Hz GPS module, and merging that data with video in RaceRender, but I'd love to start pulling some data off the car.
Solo DL >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HLT
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      06-19-2018, 04:54 PM   #9
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I really liked Traqmate, the UI was great on the software and the data was pretty easy to get to, look at and mess with. But they went bye-bye, I still have the hardware if anyone is looking for a deal.

I just picked up the AIM Solo II DL. I've used it once now and played with the data a bit. The AIM is a real value especially the data logging portion, which I still need to hook up. It's really nice that if you turn it on at the paddock you're good to go. I'm surprised there isn't a friction circle, and that you need to build or apply the math channel to get the G sum numbers. My first pass at it also seemed to be kinda low res on that channel. Still figuring things out.
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      06-19-2018, 05:25 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jid2 View Post
I'm surprised there isn't a friction circle, and that you need to build or apply the math channel to get the G sum numbers. My first pass at it also seemed to be kinda low res on that channel. Still figuring things out.

I'm not surprised. Pi Toolbox doesn't have those either. The math channel takes all of 30 seconds to build, and creating the friction circle graphic is just a basic X/Y plot. You only have to do it once.

The resolution for the math channel will be limited to the lowest resolution of any of the input channels. What is the polling rate/resolution you see? For reference, my car is 5Hz for both longitudinal and lateral acceleration, meaning that my G sum is also 5Hz. I think that's sufficient for G sum, honestly.
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      06-29-2018, 03:18 PM   #11
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At the track this past Monday, I experimented with "no-lift-shift" (NLS) for the first time during one session. The short explanation is that it's a feature of the drive-by-wire system that lets you keep the accelerator to the floor between shifts at WOT. It will cut the engine timing while the clutch pedal is in so you don't slam into the rev limiter.

Based on what I see in the telemetry, it isn't really any faster. There is less of a drop in longitudinal acceleration (3rd line below) during the shift, but overall speed differential is negligible (bottom line). Considering the shock this puts on the drivetrain, I don't think I will bother doing it again.

Green = lap with NLS
Red = normal lap

Note that on the NLS lap I was a bit later getting to WOT but also went a little bit deeper into the braking zone. Neither of those things are related to NLS. For those familiar with Autobahn CC, this is the long straightaway on the south course right after "patience".

Discuss.
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      07-05-2018, 11:42 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_PDX View Post
What is everyone's opinion of the original AIM Solo DL? I thought about grabbing one of those cheap since the Solo 2 just came out and someone is probably going to upgrade.

I've been using Harry's Laptimer + Bad Elf 10Hz GPS module, and merging that data with video in RaceRender, but I'd love to start pulling some data off the car.
Solo DL >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HLT
Not sure I 100% agree with this. Depends.

HLT is great for someone who is starting out, wants to get better but isn't committed to doing the in-depth data analysis. The casual HPDE'er or someone who only goes to the track a 2-3 times a year. $700 is a waste if you only use it twice a year.

I think a SoloDL is a waste until you're turning consistent lap times. Then the data can show small differences that HLT can't.

HLT was a tremendous help in quickly finding out which laps were faster and which corners I was inconsistent in when I was an intermediate driver. The sector times were invaluable.

The SoloDL also requires some commitment to learn and analyze the data. Definitely not the most intuitive program.
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      07-05-2018, 09:01 PM   #13
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Does HLT show you splits for various corners/straights in real-time? That's a very good way to ease yourself into data analysis and to immediately see if something you did worked.

"Wow, that felt really fast"
(quickly check split)
"Yep, it was"
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      07-06-2018, 12:09 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Does HLT show you splits for various corners/straights in real-time? That's a very good way to ease yourself into data analysis and to immediately see if something you did worked.

"Wow, that felt really fast"
(quickly check split)
"Yep, it was"
Its been awhile since I used it but, IIRC, could see a virtual best and sector times. Then it has the +/- compared to your best lap in real time.
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      09-28-2018, 09:38 PM   #15
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Tagginag along. I have an E92 shell getting caged and will be putting outfitting with a Motec PDM and C127. Haven't decided what class to run yet so not sure if I'll use an M150 or keep the DME.

There are a couple of CAN busses in the mss60 that aren't used. They contain a lot of engine data at a much higher data rate than can be spit out over OBD. Using them requires populating a couple of empty spots on the main board with CAN transceivers and enabling the output of each MPC563 in the calibration area.

I'm going to test it in a few weeks and if people are interested, may offer it as a service if it works.
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      09-30-2018, 07:10 PM   #16
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Tagginag along. I have an E92 shell getting caged and will be putting outfitting with a Motec PDM and C127. Haven't decided what class to run yet so not sure if I'll use an M150 or keep the DME.

There are a couple of CAN busses in the mss60 that aren't used. They contain a lot of engine data at a much higher data rate than can be spit out over OBD. Using them requires populating a couple of empty spots on the main board with CAN transceivers and enabling the output of each MPC563 in the calibration area.

I'm going to test it in a few weeks and if people are interested, may offer it as a service if it works.
Any chance you can figure out the CAN setup for DCT temps? The AIM List shows it in there, but it does not work on our car.....AIM says the DCT temp parameter was user-provided.
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      09-30-2018, 08:07 PM   #17
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Any chance you can figure out the CAN setup for DCT temps? The AIM List shows it in there, but it does not work on our car.....AIM says the DCT temp parameter was user-provided.
What does the AIM template show for the ArbID, format, etc?

The DCT transmits to the DME over PT-CAN on 0xB5 with Byte 7 (in byte0-7 format) being Gearbox temp. 8 Bit, unsigned, with a range of -40 to 170 Celsius (hex value -40C).

Edit:

Not sure of the 0xB5 arbid is mirrored over on K-CAN, so you would need to be tapped into PT-CAN to read it if so.
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      10-01-2018, 01:42 PM   #18
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this is a cool thread why haven't I seen it before.

Some of us get on webinar together and overlay our data against each other to see who has more balls in which sectors. It's a lot of laughs lol

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      10-01-2018, 01:45 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
Not sure I 100% agree with this. Depends.

HLT is great for someone who is starting out, wants to get better but isn't committed to doing the in-depth data analysis. The casual HPDE'er or someone who only goes to the track a 2-3 times a year. $700 is a waste if you only use it twice a year.

I think a SoloDL is a waste until you're turning consistent lap times. Then the data can show small differences that HLT can't.

HLT was a tremendous help in quickly finding out which laps were faster and which corners I was inconsistent in when I was an intermediate driver. The sector times were invaluable.

The SoloDL also requires some commitment to learn and analyze the data. Definitely not the most intuitive program.
your experience must have been different than mine. Mine with HLT included pulling my hair out at the nonfunctional nature of HLT in an Android phone.
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      10-01-2018, 11:49 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
Not sure I 100% agree with this. Depends.

HLT is great for someone who is starting out, wants to get better but isn't committed to doing the in-depth data analysis. The casual HPDE'er or someone who only goes to the track a 2-3 times a year. $700 is a waste if you only use it twice a year.

I think a SoloDL is a waste until you're turning consistent lap times. Then the data can show small differences that HLT can't.

HLT was a tremendous help in quickly finding out which laps were faster and which corners I was inconsistent in when I was an intermediate driver. The sector times were invaluable.

The SoloDL also requires some commitment to learn and analyze the data. Definitely not the most intuitive program.
your experience must have been different than mine. Mine with HLT included pulling my hair out at the nonfunctional nature of HLT in an Android phone.
HLT worked fine on my iPhone...the only phone that should exist
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      10-09-2018, 04:28 PM   #21
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HLT is great for bragging rights. Not everyone of my buddies at the track has data acquisition, but they all have cell phones with mounts. It's not hard to grab a $20 app and go "hey b*tch I'm 2 seconds faster!"

It's also great and convenient for social media type posts where you can quickly overlay the video while you're at the track and by the time you get home all your fans can fawn over your mad driving skills.

For a rudimentary data capture device, the starting point in cost and convenience can't be beat.

But I'm with the dparm though. The on-board PDR from GM is excellent, even with their free "Cosworth Toolbox for [Your model here]." The amount of telemetry it captures is far beyond what HLT can do, and the data analysis is actually quite a bit more advanced. I particularly like the ease of use, the integration into the car, and some of the cool overlay features on the basic Cosworth Toolbox (see attached). You can compare two laps and figure out what slight adjustment to line, braking, and throttle points do on the map overlay. On HLT that functionality does not exist, or if it does, it's hard to find.

I especially love the fact that it works like a video editing deck, where you can move the "head" back and forth and see the lap and the differences play out right in front of you on a screen. Far more intuitive for me as a creative/media/marketing professional. You can click and go straight to the break-down for each corner as you compare two laps. I wish this basic version allow you to set multiple reference laps so you can see more than 2 laps being compared.

However, if you factor in the actual cost, this is not a cheap option. My car happens to come with NAV and PDR (a 3LT Grand Sport), so all that cost was factored into the trim level, but as a stand along option the PDR is $2,000.

No idea what the higher end data acquisition devices can do. And I do realize that Pi Toolbox is far more capable and far more customizable.
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      10-09-2018, 06:43 PM   #22
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Hmm I should get an AIM Solo DL. Starting to get consistent, getting +/- 0.5 to 1 second lap times in a session when traffic is light. Data would be insightful too!

If I use my OBD port for my Waylens camera, can I hardwire in the Solo DL and run the OBD port with something plugged in at the same time?
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