|
|
|
Post Reply |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
01-12-2012, 10:48 PM | #177 | |
Brigadier General
2345
Rep 4,347
Posts |
Quote:
Despite all this, I still like many aspects of the M3 and if I couldn't get a 1M I was going to buy a base e90 M3 without all the crap BUT I don't need a snob telling us how the 1M is not a real M car. Take a close look at what you drive before putting down other rides. for your info, the gearbox is a new version of the 135i developed for the 1M with special coatings that makes it shift 4 times more crisply than the M3... I have driven the M3 and this 1M only gearbox with short shifter is awesome and any M3 owner would wish theirs shifted like it. You want to talk real M cars...... 1M no sunroof option.....1M manual only....1M 300-400 lbs lighter than M3 with the same brakes, tires, wheels, rear diff. One setting on the suspension...STIFF with no electronic softening for soft butts. So which car is closer to the original M3 the E90/92/93 or the 1M? Dr Z felt it was the 1M as did the people I met at ///M Design Center in Garching. Last edited by nachob; 01-13-2012 at 12:00 AM.. Reason: I got mad at first by the snobby put-down so I cleaned it up. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-13-2012, 12:10 AM | #178 | |
Air India
147
Rep 1,834
Posts |
Quote:
e30 m3 = homologation to race. neither the 1m nor the e9x m3 is close to what M really stands for - Motorsports.
__________________
PKumarM3 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-13-2012, 02:52 AM | #179 |
Captain
511
Rep 986
Posts |
This is a dangerous game.
M is a powerful letter, but you don't want to water it out to much. We allready have the M package today, which means different look, and some sportier suspension among other things. This move right here, will be a direct competitior to the S5 and S6 (and more) to Audi. So it could mean one of two things, the true M cars' will get more hardcore, and these "m" will be something in the middle? I'm not sure if this is a good thing or not. I'm all for choices, but the M should be thrown here and there, it should be something exclusive imo. Is have been used in the past, but seeing these are diesel powered, i guess that was a no go as well. I'm confused. Maybe the true M will become a CSL?
__________________
3 series: E30: 89 325i, E36: 92 325iC, 94 320iC, 96 320i Convertible, 94 320iaC, E46: 99 320ia, E90: 06 318i Le mans, E91: 07 318dt
5 series: E39: 97 520ia, 01 530Dat, E61: 09 520Dat X series: E83 05 X3 2.0d, E84 10' X1 2.0 X-drive DA, F25 13' 2.0da X-drive. Last edited by ron_jeremy; 01-13-2012 at 03:07 AM.. Reason: added |
Appreciate
0
|
01-13-2012, 04:28 AM | #180 |
Captain
61
Rep 886
Posts |
I feel sorry for the bmw nowadays.
///M was an exclusive letter, and if every bmw wear an m-badge,it's no more exclusive. Unless bmw will build new m3 for hardcore fans and make it more raw and exclusive,but personally me i don't think so. I know it rise sales,but one day many of us won't buy a car that you can meet all over the place,(driving by your Granny,girlfriend etc) Even if it would be very good,cause we buy M's not only because it's such a good,sports car but it's smth special!!! I hope bmw will do smth with this. If not it's time to try Porsche. |
Appreciate
0
|
01-13-2012, 08:53 AM | #182 |
Second Lieutenant
6
Rep 192
Posts |
Agree w m630 and few others.
Guys, the real estate agents driving slushboxes are taking over BMW sales, that's a fact. Those who enjoy BMW cars for their driving pleasure are being offered a rescue line by this M division... To enjoy steering feedback, handling and the real BMW feel. I understand some ppl feel spurned by BMW for "brand dilution", but that's an elitist attitude. BMW is a company in it to make profits, not cater to 0.1% of it's fanbois. They didn't even have to do this as they know where their sales are. So y'all should enjoy the ride, or get out and find some other brand. Good luck with that as all car companies are just that - companies. |
Appreciate
0
|
01-13-2012, 10:06 AM | #183 |
Captain
298
Rep 940
Posts |
I notice a consistent bifurcation of comments on this thread - those who have invested in an M car are disappointed with brand dilution. Those who want more performance minded cars with enhanced usability or a lower price point appear to be enthralled by the potential of an M-line of vehicles.
I read an interesting article related to this phenomenon – Harvard University created a School for Continuing Education which required far less stringent admission criteria, primarily for part time students. Although the new school was a separate entity with limited faculty, student, or curriculum overlap, there was pushback from the alumni community. After spending serious dollars for a top notch education, alums consistently argued that a lower cost/lower performance variant diluted the brand. Personally, I believe the Harvard alums maintain a valid argument applicable to this tread – albeit clearly a Harvard Education maintains a more crucial brand value to a person than the moniker on their vehicle. My initial take, as an owner of a few M cars, fell on the side of reasonable – who cares if an M135 is badged as such when you know the power and performance enhancements the true 1er M coupe offers over its peer? Then, I considered it from the alternative view point – why should a potential M135 buyer care if the same car is branded as an M135 or a 135is? Given the later question, it seems to me that those adamant for the M badge are looking for a status symbol held by those who invested in the performance of a full fledged M product. To integrate the Harvard example, those pursuing the School of Continuing Studies were doing so not because of the quality of the education (where they could have arguably gotten a better schooling experience at BC or BU or Tufts, etc.) but because they wanted to portray themselves as Harvard educated folks when in most circumstances, the group fell short of normal admission criteria….so I say badge it as an IS and those who want it for the right reason will still buy it. |
Appreciate
0
|
01-13-2012, 10:08 AM | #184 | |
The Professor
161
Rep 817
Posts |
Quote:
This is horrible! Every BMW will have an M badge on it... every poser will slap an M in front of their model #. AMG here i come.
__________________
2010 BMW M6 2007 BMW 335i,2012 Audi S4-retired 2016 BMW 750i M-Sport 2015 BMW M235i-retired, 2022 M240i |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-13-2012, 10:35 AM | #185 |
Colonel
76
Rep 2,491
Posts
Drives: 991 C2S Guards Red
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Nashville, TN
|
///Marketing BS... I agree with the larger consensus, the only positive I can see as a result would be if the true M cars continue to become more hardcore, sports oriented cars as opposed to luxury-sports-enthusiast cars. I don't mean to say that the current M cars are not, but I hope they become more so. Perhaps more akin to the Porsche GT cars and their RS counter parts (maybe thats too extreme of an analogy)
__________________
991.1 C2S PDK, Guards Red | PDCC | Sport Chrono + | Clear Tail Lights | Alcantara Steering Wheel | HRE FF01 | TechArt Springs | Sport Exhaust
Previous: Porsche 997 Turbo 6MT, Atlas Gray | Cobb Stage 2 | HRE FF01 | Europipe Stg. 2 Exhaust | GMG LMS Rollbar | GT2 Exhaust Tips | Pagid RS-29 | Rennline Pedals | SSK 997.2 Track Car, heavily modded & E92 M3 DCT, still miss her daily & E92 335i heavily modded |
Appreciate
0
|
01-13-2012, 10:48 AM | #186 | |
Moderator
7538
Rep 19,368
Posts |
Overall, I don't agree with your observations. I'll bet that there are almost as many M owners who don't have an issue with the new line of M Performance vehicles as those that do. For non-M owners, the split is probably further from 50/50, sure, with most people in that camp favoring the new direction.
Without trying to speak for M enthusiasts as a whole (be they a current owner or not), it seems to me that the biggest concern is that this will mean a further watering down of M vehicles across the board. That is to say that there is concern that the performance of future full-fledged M offerings and the experience they deliver may not match what we have come to expect from M Division. Whether this is a legitimate fear or not (and it may not be - as some people have already said, perhaps it means proper M models get more hard-core from this point on), one thing I know that it cannot be characterized as is snobbery (or the notion of being fixated on the car merely as a status symbol). Sure, there are folks in this thread who are upset about exclusivity being dimmished, and other complaints like that. No surprise there. Discussions of that nature come up on M3Post from time to time in reponse to BMW or M product announcement or branding decisions or directions, or any number of other factors. From my experience, there are always plenty of people on either side of the argument. Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-13-2012, 11:14 AM | #187 |
Major General
2793
Rep 6,788
Posts |
I hope you realize that this means the M cars will move up a price bracket or two... this is BMW's attempt to create a (lucrative) middle ground - which can only mean the M cars now have room to move up in price.
The next M3 coupe will probably start around $65k. Or even more.
__________________
2018 F80 Santorini 2019 Z4 30i 2022 X2 M35i |
Appreciate
0
|
01-13-2012, 12:17 PM | #188 |
Colonel
705
Rep 2,548
Posts
Drives: '08 135i, '88 325is
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Denver, CO
|
I disagree with that. It shouldn't matter how many 3 series you see on the road because what makes it special is the driving experience. It is the benchmark of its class after all. If people think that exclusivity is what makes it special, then they are buying the car for the wrong reason.
__________________
Delivered in Munich, broken in on the Nurburgring.
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-13-2012, 12:50 PM | #189 | |
Major
1890
Rep 1,231
Posts |
Quote:
Personally I wouldn't be attracted by the upmarket status the M logo stands for but rather by the charisma this sub-brand has developped (an iconic letter, 3 emblematic colors, a sporty taste...) on top of quality vehicles with outstanding performance (unlike your example of trading good quality studies in order to get the Harvard brand). Driving an M Performance, personally I wouldn't derive any gratification from thinking I'm driving a close-to-M car (although we might argue that these cars' engineering proficiency and performance are way over average and are little Ms) but just a car which has some of 'that taste'. To me a fully Individual 550i has more 'status' than an ///M550d (but less charisma), but it's my personal perception, maybe others find gratification in M's status. Incidentally, if more modest buyers seek status, how about real M drivers? Are they all automotive passionate enthusiasts? Here on the forum probably yes, but generally speaking I don't think so, more and more buyers (especially in emerging countries) are seeking precisely status and drive real M because they want to own 'the most expensive' version of such model and can afford it. Why would those buyers deserve the M badge? Only because they can afford it while others cannot? M has become a brand which multiplies its versions and evolves with its time (turbocharging, M SUVs...), so I think it isn't legitimate to say "M equals high-end traditional supercars only", it simply isn't true anymore. Rather, M today equals "very sporty BMW" (not necessarily supercar level). I don't think that a handful of purist enthusiasts deserve to claim that their label remains 'greedily' exclusive since the brand itself diversifies, openly admits wanting to sell high volumes, 'sells out' its tradition and says "no dogmas". What counts most is that M keeps producing benchmark supercars, not that some lower range versions are associated with the M badge. Lastly, if BMW can develop another attractive and charismatic label as M is, it would be great, but they don't seem to want to because marketing a new label and making it fruitful is a long and expensive process, while the M brand is already well established and they used the easy option. But if they succeed to create another attractive label (what is failed to), and I don't mean status-wise but purely attraction-wise (status will come after success, and success requires attractivity!), then I would gladly be a potential customer. Until then, I don't think many would go for a more upmarket (therefore more expensive) label like is was, as performant as it might be, as long as it lacks specificity (= too closely derived from the stock model) and charisma. Last edited by advantage20; 01-13-2012 at 01:52 PM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-13-2012, 01:54 PM | #190 | |
Captain
298
Rep 940
Posts |
Quote:
I understand that not all M buyers purchase for the exemplarily performance – and to tie to my earlier comparison – not all Harvard students attend for the quality of education or intellectual strength of their fellow students. To some folks, brands translate to status and those with financial and/or other means will always seek the most elite offerings. As a motorsport enthusiast, I’ve historically looked to the perception-conscious to subsidize my purchase. They procure a portion of the M car production and, as such, absorb some of the R&D costs that dilute with volume until I can afford a great M car. In other words, if only performance minded people bought M3s, sales would drop to a level that would require less engineering expense in development or a much higher cost per unit. This financial consideration allows me to accept the soccer mom in the M5. I’m an M evolutionist – meaning I subscribe to the idea that an iconic brand must evolve (turbos, dual clutch boxes, awd and even SAVs) – so I understand the profitability play associated with utilization of an established brand but that doesn’t imply that I agree with it. I’d be a supporter if the decision makers at M gmbH reinvested all brand-related profit associated with the M badge vs. the IS badge on the new line of vehicles to building superior hardcore M models for the purists. I think that sounds like a fair exchange for brand dilution: I get a better M3 for my money and image-conscious John Doe can pretend he has a car built upon M heritage. I don’t see much divergence in that scenario from my M5 soccer mom anecdote. My problem arises when the soccer mom buys an M550d instead of delivering the extra dollars to contribute to R&D at the M5 level. Cannibalization of the purist cars by those interested in the label in a watered down and cheaper package could produce a sad outcome for M enthusiasts. From the less logical standpoint – I see way too many folks running beaters with M badges around my area. As a true M aficionado, it pains me in much the same way it would pain a Harvard alum to see the Veritas insignia applied to the local community college sweatshirt. I appreciate the price discrimination and the pride of M ownership – not to mention the solid re-sale values. Slapping the M badge on an ever increasing spectrum of performance steals some of the magic from the moniker – ///M becomes banal. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-13-2012, 02:17 PM | #191 |
Private First Class
3
Rep 150
Posts |
The enjoyment that a car, or any item, can only be possessed by certain people is a very ego driven sentiment. Its like this everywhere though. You love the obscure band you found, until they "sell out" and make it big then everybody gets to hear them. They may have sold out by writing "crap" that the "masses" can enjoy and not the tortured art that only a true fan can appreciate or maybe they stayed exactly the same and a wider audience came to realize their brilliance.
If you love your car it shouldn't matter. If you neighbor buys the exact same car in the exact same color, does that make your driving experience any less? It shouldn't. I see tons of people in bimmers all over the place now, most all of them far more expensive than mine; but it doesn't make me enjoy driving my car any less.
__________________
Interviewer: The most exciting moment during the race weekend?
Kimi: I think so it's the race start, always. Interviewer: The most boring? Kimi: Now. |
Appreciate
0
|
01-13-2012, 02:26 PM | #192 |
Lieutenant General
4989
Rep 10,212
Posts
Drives: 2024 Golf R / 718 SRS (on way)
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
|
All this is a way for BMW to charge more for the M cars. and not make them any better than they would have been anyway.
And to create some limp wristed BS That's not really an M but a little better than the respective series top of the line model. Nothing new will be created here. Nothing better. It will just cost more.
__________________
Past rides: 2022 718 Spyder, 2022 MINI JCW, 2016 981 BGTS, 2020 MINI JCW, 2017 F80, 2015 981 CS, 2014 F22 235, 2011 E82 135, 2008 E82 135, 2007 E92 328, 2007 E92 328 (My lady drives an OG M2. So does my dad)
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-13-2012, 02:34 PM | #193 |
Private First Class
9
Rep 178
Posts |
That's it! Im switching to Mercedes Benz for an AMG. jk... good way to make some more money.
But I am getting a c63 now... to many Ms for my taste
__________________
Blackmobile||all black erthang
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-13-2012, 03:15 PM | #194 | ||||
Major General
739
Rep 6,861
Posts
Drives: 2014 BMW 435i X-drive
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Reston, VA
|
Quote:
those very same options are available on the 1m last i checked and they are options on both the M3 and the 1m so if you want the light version you can order both cars without them Quote:
he calls it the 1 series M coupe never heard him say the 3 series M coupe or the 5 series M sedan read into that what you want Quote:
it is not worth giving up the S65 engine in exchange for a N54 or whatever they decided to call the engine in the 1m besides all i need to fix that is a short shift kit but there is no fix for the fact that it's turbocharged and not NA Quote:
i've owned one they are both fat and overweight the fact that the 1m is 342 pounds lighter doesn't make much difference when the original M3 weighed 2700lb
__________________
|
||||
Appreciate
0
|
01-13-2012, 03:18 PM | #195 | |
Major General
739
Rep 6,861
Posts
Drives: 2014 BMW 435i X-drive
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Reston, VA
|
Quote:
your cars are no longer exclusive so all the people who want to drive BMW to show off in front of their friends will move on so ultimately if all you care about is sales at one point you will have sold out too much and your sales will start to drop look at what porsche/ferrari do they always try to keep their cars exclusive
__________________
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
01-13-2012, 04:48 PM | #196 |
Private First Class
36
Rep 199
Posts |
I find it absolutely absurd that they will offer to slap the M badge on any BMW for a small fee. They need to restrict the M brand to actual M cars in order for it to remain true to its roots. I actually thought the M brand was the pride of the BMW company. I guess I was wrong.
I can see that they want to add performance upgrades for their regular lineup but why call it M? It is not an M car. You can't take a Cow, slap a sticker that says Horse on the Cow, and call it a Horse. We will have so many M versions that nobody will know which one is which. Truly disappointed...
__________________
2022 BMW X6M Competition Alpine White/Black Leather |
Appreciate
0
|
01-13-2012, 06:37 PM | #198 | |
Female driving enthusiast :P
81
Rep 2,308
Posts
Drives: Bimmer
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
|
Quote:
__________________
2013 M3 coupe (Azurite Black, Black, Piano Black)
+ miata nut (2 miatas) + Mk6 GTI 5-door hatch (our mini-SUV ) |
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|