M3 V8 - history / Legacy....

[HotLap]

Having recently purchased an '08 E93 I'm curious about BMW's developmental history of the V8 in our M3's....is this the same (or a closely related design) to the V8 in the E60 550 or is it an all new design?

Why aren't there more aftermarket mods out for BMW V8's...seems the American V8's have a much larger aftermarket for performance mods? I also wonder why no one makes an aftermarket tuner for for the BMW's like the XCal II or Diablo Predator - these plug into the OBDII port and upload/save the stock tune then download a performance tune in about 2 minutes...easily reversible for the next trip to the dealer? :confusedt

[amgthis]

Originally Posted by HotLap

Having recently purchased an '08 E93 I'm curious about BMW's developmental history of the V8 in our M3's....is this the same (or a closely related design) to the V8 in the E60 550 or is it an all new design?

Why aren't there more aftermarket mods out for BMW V8's...seems the American V8's have a much larger aftermarket for performance mods? I also wonder why no one makes an aftermarket tuner for for the BMW's like the XCal II or Diablo Predator - these plug into the OBDII port and upload/save the stock tune then download a performance tune in about 2 minutes...easily reversible for the next trip to the dealer? :confusedt

Its an M5 V10 with 2 cylinders chopped off from what I know.

[Sticky]

There will be plenty of products available, I don't know what you expect already.

There is PLENTY available right now. You want a tune, you got it, exhaust, its there, pulleys, uh huh, intake, you got it.

Headers, forced induction, strokers, all on the way. What are you waiting for?

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by HotLap

Having recently purchased an '08 E93 I'm curious about BMW's developmental history of the V8 in our M3's....is this the same (or a closely related design) to the V8 in the E60 550 or is it an all new design?

Why aren't there more aftermarket mods out for BMW V8's...seems the American V8's have a much larger aftermarket for performance mods? I also wonder why no one makes an aftermarket tuner for for the BMW's like the XCal II or Diablo Predator - these plug into the OBDII port and upload/save the stock tune then download a performance tune in about 2 minutes...easily reversible for the next trip to the dealer? :confusedt

It's because the car and engine are still new. You don't typically see major development in the aftermarket for at least 2-3 years after release even for domestic cars. Of course you get stuff like intake, exhaust, and suspension soon after release but no much else until later.

[HotLap]

Originally Posted by Sticky

There will be plenty of products available, I don't know what you expect already.

There is PLENTY available right now. You want a tune, you got it, exhaust, its there, pulleys, uh huh, intake, you got it.

Headers, forced induction, strokers, all on the way. What are you waiting for?

Sticky - chill a bit...I've only had the M3 for a week now I'm learning quickly - but I do have to work during the day so it takes time

I would appreciate it if you would be more specific when you mention tunes for the M3 - especially the kind I inquired about in my post...a portable tuner, (not a hard wired piggy back type - or dealer reflash like the DINAN for my 535), but a tuner that I can plug into the OBDII port and switch between stock (for trips to the dealer) and performance for the rest of the time. Can you recommend one or have a link???

[HotLap]

Originally Posted by amgthis

Its an M5 V10 with 2 cylinders chopped off from what I know.

Interesting, so it doesn't have much in common with the 550i V8?

[HotLap]

Originally Posted by HIS4

It's because the car and engine are still new. You don't typically see major development in the aftermarket for at least 2-3 years after release even for domestic cars. Of course you get stuff like intake, exhaust, and suspension soon after release but no much else until later.

Good point and I realize that...just that with my 535 I didn't find a handheld tuner either - seemed to be only teh "piggyback" or DINAN/dealer flash options for a performance tune and I would like to see a handheld tune for the M3....time will tell

[Sticky]

Originally Posted by HotLap

Sticky - chill a bit...I've only had the M3 for a week now I'm learning quickly - but I do have to work during the day so it takes time

I would appreciate it if you would be more specific when you mention tunes for the M3 - especially the kind I inquired about in my post...a portable tuner, (not a hard wired piggy back type - or dealer reflash like the DINAN for my 535), but a tuner that I can plug into the OBDII port and switch between stock (for trips to the dealer) and performance for the rest of the time. Can you recommend one or have a link???

It's all good, there is a bunch out there and the M3 usually is the most highly modified BMW with the most parts available.

The tunes are usually flashes. I wasn't there when they did mine so I don't know exactly how they did it. No piggybacks or anything like that.

I'm surprised as to how much we already have.

[Hotan Braskey]

Originally Posted by HotLap

Interesting, so it doesn't have much in common with the 550i V8?

Nope. Like the previous post said, it is essentially a truncated version of the V10 in the M5 and M6. It is a completely different beast from their "normal" V8 found in the 550, 650, etc.

[Rennbahnmeister]

Sticky: What kind of chip/tune are you running? Hope you don't mind me asking.

[JAJ]

Originally Posted by HotLap

Interesting, so it doesn't have much in common with the 550i V8?

As far as I know, the 4.8 liter engine in the 550i is based on the same family as the 4.4 liter M62 engine in the 540i and later in 4.8 liter form in the X5-4.8is. It's called the "N62" and has variable valve lift (Valvetronic) and direct fuel injection.

The newer M-series engines - the S85 and S65 (V10 and V8) are derived from a new design completely done by the M-division. Unlike the production engine-based models (S54 and S62) the S85B50 5 liter V-10 and the S65B40 4 liter V8 have a bedplate bottom-end and are based on a new concept for an extremely rigid engine built from scratch for the M-cars and for racing. They do not have Valvetronic or direct injection. But they turn high RPM and they deliver lots of power per liter.

[Sticky]

Originally Posted by Rennbahnmeister

Sticky: What kind of chip/tune are you running? Hope you don't mind me asking.

I don't mind at all, I am running powerchip software. 20 wheel gain, 990 dollars.

[ersin]

Here's some propaganda from BMW that may be interesting.

The S65 V8 is still pretty new. American V8s have been around in basic form for a while and folks here in the US are more familiar with them.

It also seems that owners of American performance cars are more likely to mod their cars than import owners. Just an opinion from knowing the folks that I know, I don't have hard data.

[UltimateBMW]

Originally Posted by JAJ

As far as I know, the 4.8 liter engine in the 550i is based on the same family as the 4.4 liter M62 engine in the 540i and later in 4.8 liter form in the X5-4.8is. It's called the "N62" and has variable valve lift (Valvetronic) and direct fuel injection.

The newer M-series engines - the S85 and S65 (V10 and V8) are derived from a new design completely done by the M-division. Unlike the production engine-based models (S54 and S62) the S85B50 5 liter V-10 and the S65B40 4 liter V8 have a bedplate bottom-end and are based on a new concept for an extremely rigid engine built from scratch for the M-cars and for racing. They do not have Valvetronic or direct injection. But they turn high RPM and they deliver lots of power per liter.

The M3 has Double VANOS, which I'm pretty sure trumps Valvetronic.

[gobuffs]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

The M3 has Double VANOS, which I'm pretty sure trumps Valvetronic.

Not exactly. I am sure M would go to valvetronic if valvetronic could cope with the M philosophy of more revs.

As for the original question....there are MANY MANY MANY more American V8s out there (not just counting over the years, but new sales every year). The amount of consumers to spread the R&D costs over is so much greater making the product cheaper. BMWs will always be expensive to mod due to the smaller number of units sold.

Also...I am sure Jim Conforti will come out with a Shark Injector soon enough (but I wouldn't expect it for 2 years). It will do exactly what you are asking.

[s4awd]

Not for nothing but I love the low end torque on the 550. Wish my M had the same low end pull

[MMMorish]

Modding your ride, V8's in particular, is a lot of fun but can get expensive. I did a lot of mods to the 5.7 litre found in my 95' Corvette and found that once you start playing around with it, you never stop.

That's why I'm leaving this engine alone.

[Sticky]

Originally Posted by s4awd

Not for nothing but I love the low end torque on the 550. Wish my M had the same low end pull

Change the gearing. The M3 V8 might not feel as fast but it is substantially quicker. There is a big difference between feeling fast and being fast. My Cayenne feels pretty quick, large mass moving with a V8, feels faster than it is.

[Rennbahnmeister]

Originally Posted by Sticky

I don't mind at all, I am running powerchip software. 20 wheel gain, 990 dollars.

[JAJ]

Originally Posted by UltimateBMW

The M3 has Double VANOS, which I'm pretty sure trumps Valvetronic.

You are absolutely right! The "S" engines in the M-cars trump anything starting with "M" or "N" in the regular BMW's.

As for Vanos or Double-Vanos, that's valve-timing adjustment and virtually all of the BMW engines these days have it in one form or another. It reduces emissions, improves low-end torque and smooths out the running of the engine.

Valvetronic is variable valve opening - it substitutes for throttle plates in the intake. Improves fuel economy. "S" engines don't have it because it limits the red-line RPM to much lower levels than the M-cars have.

Direct Injection is another fuel economy and emissions technology that the "S" engines don't have (yet, maybe never). Porsche just introduced it in their engines for 2008 or 2009 (I'm not sure).