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      08-28-2009, 10:00 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Glad to see this thread revived and more people expressing interest.

I have to believe this is very possible. There is a thread on the forum (I'll dig it up if there is interest) from a vendor who claims to have retrofit software for M-DCT to eliminate the lag. If vendors have that level of knowledge about the various CUs throughout these cars then anything is possible. The problem is that vendors might not see a market for all this. However, as I pointed out in my last post, ALL M3s would benefit from having a 3 position switch on the center console to toggle MDM. Additionally, being able to toggle steering and Sport+ from the console would be nice for everyone. I think there is a potentially big market for this mod.
I completely agree. The vendor is ESS Tuning in Arizona. They seem to be an expert in BMW software tuning. Steering and Sport+ would be great, but MDM is all I would really be interested in. If what Manila is saying about iDrive not being available in his country, being able to enable this via a 3 position switch would prove to lucrative. If a mod such as this existed, people who were considering iDrive just for MDM in the future may forgo it entirely and instead just do the mod thus making the market even bigger.
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      08-28-2009, 10:14 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeldorian View Post
If a mod such as this existed, people who were considering iDrive just for MDM in the future may forgo it entirely and instead just do the mod thus making the market even bigger.
Yep. And when I sent an email inquiring about software programming to another vendor a while back, I mentioned this very possibility as well.

One other thing though. Some vendors might be weary of providing this mod for reasons exactly like this: it could effect BMW's bottom line. I don't know though, that might not be a big concern in reality.
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      08-28-2009, 11:55 PM   #25
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I would think Dinan would be have the capability to do such an "upgrade". I too would totally pay for this. Like Michaeldorian said "Steering and Sport+ would be great, but MDM is all I would really be interested in". MDM and Comfort Access are really the only features in the tech package that are of interest to me. MDM being the main one as I track my car quite bit.
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      08-29-2009, 01:45 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeldorian View Post
The vendor is ESS Tuning in Arizona.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
And when I sent an email inquiring about software programming to another vendor a while back, I mentioned this very possibility as well.
Great thread!

I'm on the same page as you guys. I'd love to have MDM and a three position switch. No way I want Idrive. I had it on my 335--what a fail. I know the 09s have an "improved version" but I tried it, and it's a fail IMO too.

But MDM, I'd be willing to pay for that as a singular aftermarket option!

mkoesel, did you hear back from that vendor? michaeldorian and mkoesel, did either of you contact ESS about this concept yet? If not, one of us should--it's worth a shot.
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      08-29-2009, 01:53 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
Great thread!

I'm on the same page as you guys. I'd love to have MDM and a three position switch. No way I want Idrive. I had it on my 335--what a fail. I know the 09s have an "improved version" but I tried it, and it's a fail IMO too.

But MDM, I'd be willing to pay for that as a singular aftermarket option!

mkoesel, did you hear back from that vendor? michaeldorian and mkoesel, did either of you contact ESS about this concept yet? If not, one of us should--it's worth a shot.
I'm not sure if mkoesel has, but I have not. I'll wait to mkoesel chimes back in. If not we definitely should see if we can put together a set of experts and vendors to help solve this.
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      08-29-2009, 05:07 AM   #28
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The vendor I contacted was Active Autowerke. I don't have any firsthand experience with them, but I was reading a post somewhere on this board and got the impression they were a reputable place. I read the details about their M3 ECU tune on their website and it sounded like they knew what they were talking about (still not sure what that launch control bit is all about, however). So, I emailed Karl Hugh, whose name is listed on the contact page with the title "Head of Engineering (Software Tuning)". I never did get a reply but I knew up front it was kind of a long shot. However it is doesn't mean they didn't keep the suggestion in mind or that some other tuner would not be more actively interested.

Here is the email I sent in case anyone cares or wants to crib parts of it:

"Hello, I saw from your website that you develop software for BMWs including the E9x M3, and I had a general question I thought maybe you could answer.

My question, simply put, is do you know whether it is possible, via software only, to add the MDM DSC mode to an M3 that is not equipped with MDrive? I ask because I have such a car (a non-MDrive M3), and have been wondering about this for a while. Of course, the non-MDrive-equipped M3 also lacks the Sport Plus Power setting and the Sport Servotronic steering setting as well. Those would be nice-to-haves also, but my main curiousity is MDM mode for DSC. Sure, you'd also need a way to engage the MDM setting. I thought perhaps it could be done simply by holding down the DSC button for a couple seconds longer that normal. Or, if the stock hardware doesn't support that, perhaps the DSC button could be replaced by a three-state button similar to the one used for EDC.

If such software is feasible, I'd be interested in it - given the right price. I think many others who don't have MDrive might be also, especially if it enabled the other two missing settings I mentioned above as well. Granted, most people order their M3 with MDrive (i.e. the "ZTP" Tech Package, for US anyway), but I think there is probably still a decent market for an aftermarket solution like this. In fact, if such a solution existed, I'll bet more non-MDrive M3s would be ordered because buyers would know they could go without the double-hump (IDrive screen) that the Tech Package forces on you and still get all the software settings.

Anyway, just something I had been thinking about and looking for a solution for. Thanks for reading."


BTW, Thanks michaeldorian for reminding me that the vendor with the M-DCT software was ESS.
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      08-29-2009, 07:58 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
The vendor I contacted was Active Autowerke. I don't have any firsthand experience with them, but I was reading a post somewhere on this board and got the impression they were a reputable place. I read the details about their M3 ECU tune on their website and it sounded like they knew what they were talking about (still not sure what that launch control bit is all about, however). So, I emailed Karl Hugh, whose name is listed on the contact page with the title "Head of Engineering (Software Tuning)". I never did get a reply but I knew up front it was kind of a long shot. However it is doesn't mean they didn't keep the suggestion in mind or that some other tuner would not be more actively interested.

Here is the email I sent in case anyone cares or wants to crib parts of it:

"Hello, I saw from your website that you develop software for BMWs including the E9x M3, and I had a general question I thought maybe you could answer.

My question, simply put, is do you know whether it is possible, via software only, to add the MDM DSC mode to an M3 that is not equipped with MDrive? I ask because I have such a car (a non-MDrive M3), and have been wondering about this for a while. Of course, the non-MDrive-equipped M3 also lacks the Sport Plus Power setting and the Sport Servotronic steering setting as well. Those would be nice-to-haves also, but my main curiousity is MDM mode for DSC. Sure, you'd also need a way to engage the MDM setting. I thought perhaps it could be done simply by holding down the DSC button for a couple seconds longer that normal. Or, if the stock hardware doesn't support that, perhaps the DSC button could be replaced by a three-state button similar to the one used for EDC.

If such software is feasible, I'd be interested in it - given the right price. I think many others who don't have MDrive might be also, especially if it enabled the other two missing settings I mentioned above as well. Granted, most people order their M3 with MDrive (i.e. the "ZTP" Tech Package, for US anyway), but I think there is probably still a decent market for an aftermarket solution like this. In fact, if such a solution existed, I'll bet more non-MDrive M3s would be ordered because buyers would know they could go without the double-hump (IDrive screen) that the Tech Package forces on you and still get all the software settings.

Anyway, just something I had been thinking about and looking for a solution for. Thanks for reading."


BTW, Thanks michaeldorian for reminding me that the vendor with the M-DCT software was ESS.
Thanks! I sent a message to ESS.
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      08-31-2009, 06:31 PM   #30
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Thanks guys!

We'll see if that nets us anything. It sure is would be nice to have at the right price assuming legal or technical barriers don't preclude the possibility.
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      08-31-2009, 07:11 PM   #31
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I'm in if someone can get this done.
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      08-31-2009, 07:38 PM   #32
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It is my understanding that the MDM mode is integral to both the EDC and the iDrive, not because it is part of the Tech package but also of the several and particular features that the MDM accomplishes on top of loosing up the DSC limits.

So any aftermarket tuner solution of MDM would be only to mimic the DSC broader limit of intrusion and nothing else, IMO. I don't think that the investment of even trying to come up with other features (steering effort, throttle adjustments) while messing with the DSC level of intervention and testing all this will be something for a small tuner to handle.
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      08-31-2009, 10:37 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
So any aftermarket tuner solution of MDM would be only to mimic the DSC broader limit of intrusion and nothing else, IMO. I don't think that the investment of even trying to come up with other features (steering effort, throttle adjustments) while messing with the DSC level of intervention and testing all this will be something for a small tuner to handle.
It is my understanding that this is exactly what we are talking about. We are only talking about retrofitting M Dynamic Mode (MDM), and not all the other features offered by MDrive (i.e. steering effort, etc.). I too would be willing to pay for this.

All I really care about is an option that offers a higher threshold for DSC intervention, which is what MDM offers. In all honesty, it is mind boggling that the M3 does not come standard with it.
I don't think a tuner would have to rewrite the code. It is already there (in cars with Mdrive and probably in all M3s). They just need to figure out how to turn it on.

Additionally, as mkoesel pointed out, I am sure the Tech Package would be forgone by many if this option was offered a la carte, or available aftermarket.
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      08-31-2009, 10:45 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
It is my understanding that the MDM mode is integral to both the EDC and the iDrive, not because it is part of the Tech package but also of the several and particular features that the MDM accomplishes on top of loosing up the DSC limits.

So any aftermarket tuner solution of MDM would be only to mimic the DSC broader limit of intrusion and nothing else, IMO. I don't think that the investment of even trying to come up with other features (steering effort, throttle adjustments) while messing with the DSC level of intervention and testing all this will be something for a small tuner to handle.
I don't think MDM has anything to do with EDC. Adjusting suspension settings at unpredictable times would be a complete no-no. All it does is reduce the broader limits of instrusion. This however adjust itself accordingly. Hence "Dynamic".

It would be great if someone can confirm this. Though I'm 99.9% certain MDM has nothing to do with EDC. Many cars on the forum have gone with aftermarket coil systems such as Moton or KW, while retaining full use of MDM.

This is 100% an upsell gimmick on BMW's part.
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      09-01-2009, 02:29 AM   #35
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Euro cars come with idrive and mdm as standard while EDC is an option so it would seem entirely likely that they are not a connnected system.
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      09-01-2009, 02:52 AM   #36
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You are probably better off selling the car and buying one with all the extras.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m3manila View Post
My M3 has no MDM on it at the moment. Is there a possible way for me to get one for my car? (I have no iDrive)
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      09-01-2009, 03:18 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donbona View Post
You are probably better off selling the car and buying one with all the extras.
But we don't want all of the extras; we want to have the option of selecting less DSC intrusion, not a bunch of other stuff we have no interest in.

I have (and had) no desire to pay $3,200 for the Technology Option; nor do I want to take a huge depreciation hit by selling and buying to get this.

I can live w/o it if necessary, but if there's a hack to allow us to us what may be 'buried' why not give it a shot?
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      09-01-2009, 03:41 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
Euro cars come with idrive and mdm as standard while EDC is an option so it would seem entirely likely that they are not a connnected system.
No, thatīs wrong ... idrive and mdrive are also options in euro cars ... I also an car without idrive because I donīt like the doublehump design for an sportscar.

I wish I could have all the mdrive features: MDM DSC mode , Sport Servotronic steering setting and Sport Plus Power setting without the need for idrive. I could live without the posibility to configurate my car with the mdrive function. I only need the M-Button in the steering wheel ... if I push the button all special features are ON.

Like mkoesel I think all the features are in every M3, but BMW wants to sell the idrive option, because when I buy idrive to get mdrive, I also buy the costly BMW Navi because the screen is 50% useless when I donīt use the navi option.

My god BMW the M3 is an sportscar - why it is necessary to choose an comfort option (idrive) to get the sportiest options ??? ... give us the mdrive features (not self configuratable) via the m-Button!

Uli_HH

Last edited by Uli_HH; 09-01-2009 at 03:56 AM..
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      09-01-2009, 04:10 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
Euro cars come with idrive and mdm as standard while EDC is an option so it would seem entirely likely that they are not a connnected system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
No, thatīs wrong ... idrive and mdrive are also options in euro cars ...
My Bad...make that: UK cars come with idrive and mdm as standard while EDC is an option so it would seem entirely likely that they are not a connnected system.
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      09-01-2009, 05:42 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeldorian View Post
I don't think MDM has anything to do with EDC. Adjusting suspension settings at unpredictable times would be a complete no-no. All it does is reduce the broader limits of instrusion. This however adjust itself accordingly. Hence "Dynamic".

It would be great if someone can confirm this. Though I'm 99.9% certain MDM has nothing to do with EDC. Many cars on the forum have gone with aftermarket coil systems such as Moton or KW, while retaining full use of MDM.

This is 100% an upsell gimmick on BMW's part.
Stand corrected, EDC is not part of the MDM code as the UK cars are indeed equipped with MDM but no EDC as standard, but definitely it is part of the steering effort and throttle adjustments and of the iDrive for the interface, so is back to square one: a non-OEM MDM retrofit in the best case will be a raise to the limits of the DSC in whatever table/formula used in the firmware and nothing else.

And for an aftermarket company to do that and test it will require vast resources. Someone like Dinan could be the only one capable of doing this right and provide warranty... and you will want some warranty.

Now, if somebody wants to really get crazy and find if indeed the OEM MDM software is dormant in your car, then try to change the Vehicle Order using Autologic in an iDrive equipped car to add MDM. If the software is there it could be possible that even the steering wheel button software address will change with the VO as well as the MDM button.

Play at your own risk...
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      09-01-2009, 05:51 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uli_HH View Post
No, thatīs wrong ... idrive and mdrive are also options in euro cars ... I also an car without idrive because I donīt like the doublehump design for an sportscar.

I wish I could have all the mdrive features: MDM DSC mode , Sport Servotronic steering setting and Sport Plus Power setting without the need for idrive. I could live without the posibility to configurate my car with the mdrive function. I only need the M-Button in the steering wheel ... if I push the button all special features are ON.

Like mkoesel I think all the features are in every M3, but BMW wants to sell the idrive option, because when I buy idrive to get mdrive, I also buy the costly BMW Navi because the screen is 50% useless when I donīt use the navi option.

My god BMW the M3 is an sportscar - why it is necessary to choose an comfort option (idrive) to get the sportiest options ??? ... give us the mdrive features (not self configuratable) via the m-Button!

Uli_HH
Very well said - I fully agree!

I also had to go down the iDrive route just in order to get MDM... That was basically my only reason for going iDrive and I swallowed hard before ticking the iDrive box because it is quite an expensive way (and the only one) to add MDM and the sport plus throttle setting (for which I couldn't care less looking at this in retrospect, but the MDM I like).

In my mind all these settings should be made available in the M3 without the need to opt for the iDrive. Not to mention that there should be more "delete" options (eg for electric seats & electric mirrors) to cut down on weight if so desired.
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      09-01-2009, 06:25 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic View Post
Now, if somebody wants to really get crazy and find if indeed the OEM MDM software is dormant in your car, then try to change the Vehicle Order using Autologic in an iDrive equipped car to add MDM. If the software is there it could be possible that even the steering wheel button software address will change with the VO as well as the MDM button.
Technic, if you don't mind can you either explain the above comments in as much detail as one would care to know () or point me to a resource that could do so? I am very curious about this, and I'll bet others reading are as well.
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      09-01-2009, 08:18 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gr8000 View Post
Not to mention that there should be more "delete" options (eg for electric seats & electric mirrors) to cut down on weight if so desired.
Indeed, a "remove weight" option would be great and those montrously heavy seats should be first on the list.
In any case, adding an electric motor to move the seats forward to let in rear seat passengers in the coupe?..what was wrong with the manual system in the E46 M3?
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      09-01-2009, 08:22 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
Technic, if you don't mind can you either explain the above comments in as much detail as one would care to know () or point me to a resource that could do so? I am very curious about this, and I'll bet others reading are as well.
Well, the MDM is another option (code 2MD) in the ordering list of a vehicle so it is a matter of adding that option code into the particular Vehicle Order.

If the MDM code is dormant in the ECU it could be possible that as simple as flashing a new Vehicle Order with MDM included this option be enabled.

However, you need to understand that you are changing the Vehicle Order to something outside the factory USA specs and configuration for your particular VIN. So if your car requires a general software update by the dealer some day most probably it will not be able to be loaded -either completely or correctly- just because software updates are linked to the VIN and the VIN is linked to the Vehicle Order.

You will have a Vehicle Order that does not match the Vehicle Order that that BMW has linked the VIN for your car. That's the bad news.

The very bad news is that it is also very possible to simply mess up several modules in your car by changing the VO in the event of the VO forcing other modules to change parameters due to the VO addition -for example, the iDrive will have now the MDM screen but the steering wheel M button changing function caused a conflict in the other SW buttons, the steering effort or even the DSC button and functionality.

And none of those modules recovery -if even possible- will be covered by warranty.

This is no joke.
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