AK Motorsports Gallardo front calipers on M3?

[Rat3d ///M]

So what would the negative affects be of shifting the bias to the front, and how bad of a % shift is this swap, vs. what is tolerable? I know I am going to kind of be the guinea pig here, but $2000.00 is a lot of money for something that doesn't work in theory (hence might not work in actual application), though I really want this setup to work.

[albertracing]

The promo front Big Brake Kit is going to UK to a forum member from the forum. I will ask him to put some info about it here.

ps. 80% of the braking is done by front axle
ps2. piston size is not all that matters, we have ABS, front/rear basis balancer and other electronic systems that adjust the braking power between front and rear.

[cenix]

Originally Posted by albertracing

ps2. piston size is not all that matters, we have ABS, front/rear basis balancer and other electronic systems that adjust the braking power between front and rear.

I'm sincerely interested in the statement regarding the electronics that control braking balance front/rear. If this were the case, we can essentially slap on 20 piston front calipers while keeping the stock rears and we would still be exempt from braking bias because of the electronics in the car? I'm being semi-facetious and serious at the same time. Is there any truth to this statement that anyone can elaborate on?

[roastbeef]

abs and braking management software? this just keeps getting worse.

[albertracing]

Please tell me what happens when you drive alone and brake. Now tell me what happens when you have 5 people in the car and trunk full and brake ?

This is where the systems go in and adjust the braking power between front and rear. Of course there are limits to that adjustment. We did not encounter any problems with this setup.

[albertracing]

Just to cut the discussion we will be using newer Cayenne brake carpels that have 4 x 32 mm pistons from now on. The old setup worked just fine but ... "customer is always right".

The news setup will have piston area f/r balance almost the same as stock

OEM w/60mm front, 46mm rear pistons = 2827mm2 (f) / 1661mm2 (r) - f/r balance 0.588
Lambo/new porsche setup = 5677 mm2 (f) / 3215 mm2 (r) - f/r balance 0.566

[Rat3d ///M]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

abs and braking management software? this just keeps getting worse.

I cannot speak on behalf of Albert, but I don't think he is saying they have aftermarket braking management software to help control brake bias. That's ridiculous. I believe what he was saying, is that the car has electronics which (to some degree) help control front/rear individual braking force based on the situation, i.e. to a certain extent a change in brake bias can be factored in and compensated by the cars computer. Again, I don't know if this is true, but that is what I got from his post

Originally Posted by cenix

I'm sincerely interested in the statement regarding the electronics that control braking balance front/rear. If this were the case, we can essentially slap on 20 piston front calipers while keeping the stock rears and we would still be exempt from braking bias because of the electronics in the car?

Again, I don't think anyone is saying you can slap on any setup you want, mechanically shifting brake bias from whatever stock is (56% front I think?) to 85% front and the computer will somehow electronically (and magically) adjust itself to stock brake bias. That's asinine.

To everyone else, I will say this: 80% of the people in the market for a big brake kit are just looking for a cosmetic upgrade. No one wants to spend $7000.00 for a full blown track setup just to have "cooler" looking larger brakes. That being said, everyone complains that no one offers an affordable BBK, then when someone finally does, all people do is complain and say "it will never work because __________" without having any real knowledge or data to back up their claims.

Truth is, not many people, if any have done a setup like this before, and if they have, they aren't talking, because I have done extensive research on this setup, and have found NOTHING stating anyone has tested a setup like this and posted their findings for anyone on the internet to see. The closest thing I know of, is a local guy to me that has Gallardo front's and 911 rears on his E92. He does have upgraded 2 piece rotors, but has stated that his setup works phenomenally on the track.

Truth be told, part of me remains somewhat skeptical simply because no one has ever posted a review on this same setup before. But I am choosing to believe in this product that AKMotorsports is developing, because I want it to work, not just for myself, but for everyone else that is in the market for a BBK and doesn't want to spend the cost of an average used car to get it. For myself, as well as many others, this is possibly just what we have been looking for: an entry level BBK setup at an affordable price point with great looks, improved braking for street use, and some mild-moderate track use. If you want a setup that can handle the 24 Hour Le Mans, then go talk to the guys at AP Racing and maybe they can help you, but get your wallet ready. No one is claiming this setup can compete with them, but for what it is, and what most people need it for, I suspect it will be more than good enough.

I am still trying to work out a deal with Albert regarding pricing for a full kit for myself in exchange for a review next May when the German winter is over. In this review, I will provide full details of my install, including a DIY with pics, plus my overall impression of the quality and performance to include test videos and pictures on the street (Autobahn), Nurburgring, and Hockenheimring. If all works out, I will try to negotiate a group buy next summer. All you guys have to do is sit back, relax, and wait for my review. No one is asking you to buy this kit (yet), but what good is coming in here and bashing a product you have never used and know nothing about? To ruin his name before he even gets his name out there?

That's all from me. You guys carry on.

[albertracing]

Originally Posted by ||||||||||

I cannot speak on behalf of Albert, but I don't think he is saying they have aftermarket braking management software to help control brake bias. That's ridiculous. I believe what he was saying, is that the car has electronics which (to some degree) help control front/rear individual braking force based on the situation, i.e. to a certain extent a change in brake bias can be factored in and compensated by the cars computer. Again, I don't know if this is true, but that is what I got from his post

This is exactly what I was trying to say.

The same situation is taking place when the car is car carries one person with empty fuel tank or it reaches maximum load (5 people + full trunk + full fuel tank). The build in car systems adjust the braking power to some level.

We decided to go with new rear brake caliper to just end this discussion and provide even better product (the old one worked, 3 other cars are running it but ... customer is always right). You want balanced kit just like OEM. Here you have it.

[OneSickM]

Originally Posted by albertracing

This is exactly what I was trying to say.

The same situation is taking place when the car is car carries one person or it reaches maximum load (5 people + full trunk). The build in car systems adjust the braking power to some level.

We decided to go with new rear brake caliper to just end this discussion and provide even better product (the old one worked, 3 other cars are running it but ... customer is always right). You want balanced kit just like OEM. Here you have it.

What is the new rear caliper going to be?

[albertracing]

Originally Posted by OneSickM

What is the new rear caliper going to be?

Porsche Cayenne 2011+ rear brake caliper that has 4 x 32 mm pistons.

[albertracing]

Another happy customer left the garage yesterday.

https://www.akmotorsport.net/product...90-e92-e93-m3/

[narkotic]

Aesthetics wise - that just looks unbalanced... Big calipers deserve larger rotors.

Technical wise - I see a lot of "IRL" or "In real life" meaning there's a lot of speculation going on in this thread and no real technical testing to back it up.

There are brake companies that design brake kits for a reason - they design a whole package that goes together. Messing with what is considered a critical safety item for a vehicle that can reach 130mph quite fast is just playing with death.

If you're just parking the car at car shows - by all means.

[Powashiftin]

Looks great

[Rat3d ///M]

Originally Posted by albertracing

Another happy customer left the garage yesterday.

https://www.akmotorsport.net/product...90-e92-e93-m3/

Albert, can you comment on the possibilities of fitting larger rotors (at least in the front) with your brake setup for those that want a larger rotor? I think many are skeptical because they don't have faith in the smaller OEM discs (myself included I'll admit), so what would it take to get a 380mm rotor to fit? Is it possible to add 10mm spacers to the brackets you produce (either the customer as a DIY, or yourself as an optional extra charge)? Despite all the naysayers, I think this will be okay for the street and light track use which is all I am into at the moment, but if I ever want to get larger rotors I am limited with your kit unless the bracket can be modified with spacers. I know a lot of work goes into these brackets but making an optional bracket that allows larger rotors, or finding a way to modify the setup with spacers might help appeal to the masses.

Just a thought..

by the way, I got your last email. I am on board with your time frame. I will just say I would be very interested in the possibilities of mounting larger rotors with these if this is in any way possible. I need new rotors anyways, and at $1100 for OEM, and $1500 for the next best aftermarket upgrade (keeping within OEM size) I would rather spend the money on some nice 380mm rotors especially if I am upgrading to your setup. For people that are into hard track use, using the OEM rotors is going to be the Achilles Heal of this setup. If it is a fairly trivial task, making a spacer to bring the bracket up another 10mm to allow for 380mm rotors might get a lot more interest.

Originally Posted by narkotic

Technical wise - I see a lot of "IRL" or "In real life" meaning there's a lot of speculation going on in this thread and no real technical testing to back it up.

This setup has recently been installed on as many (as I can tell) as 3 cars, so the application is out there in use. The problem is, no one is reporting how well they work. That's what I hope to change when I get mine, but tbh, even with a full review on the interwebz, people will still complain and say they won't work.

If you're just parking the car at car shows - by all means.

This is what probably 75% of the people in the market for a BBK are after. Those that want it for hard track use know better than to Franken-fit some used OEM Brembos from a Porsche to their BMW while keeping stock rotors and expect great results.

[albertracing]

I am not getting new post notifications on e-mail.

Chris, I will reply to your comment tomorrow. There is no problem for us to develop a kit with bigger rotor upgrade. But it will cost "bit" more. We are developing the kits using 3D CAM software and than the kit is FEA tested. We also did road tests that included braking form 130 mph to 0 for "few" times. The only problem is that we are not Brembo, Stoptech or any other big name company. If you want to pay for the brand, accounting department, marketing departament, law departament ect than go ahead

Another set sent to customer.

[Cbozz]

Originally Posted by albertracing

Another happy customer left the garage yesterday.

https://www.akmotorsport.net/product...90-e92-e93-m3/

where in warsaw are you located? I'm here now! let me know I'll come check it out

[albertracing]

PM sent

[dj_dub]

Looks awesome! ...these pics are tempting me.

[albertracing]

...

[GRUESOM3]

2500-3000 range is that including the rotors ? Those panamera calipers are massive always wondered what they'd look like

[albertracing]

Originally Posted by GRUESOM3

2500-3000 range is that including the rotors ? Those panamera calipers are massive always wondered what they'd look like

Yes, full kit. Rotors, pads, calipers, brake lines, adapters, screws.

[BLuRRYM3]

This interest me . . . sub'd