BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Off-Topic Discussions Board > Politics/Religion
 
Steve Thomas BMW
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-24-2007, 03:32 PM   #199
hks786
Major General
United Kingdom
1044
Rep
5,366
Posts

Drives: *
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjaneer View Post
I believe you meant to say that his son was spared and the lamb was offered instead etc., not that his son was physically transformed into a lamb

The writings aren't the problem. It's the poor (or misinterpreted) implementation by people. In that much I'd agree with you, that ultimately it's the interpreter's fault if they stray from the intended meaning. It's really not difficult. As it relates to Islam, the prophet himself did not condone extremism. In fact, this hadith / narration is a simple example:

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 1:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:

A group of three men came to the houses of the wives of the Prophet asking how the Prophet worshipped (Allah), and when they were informed about that, they considered their worship insufficient and said, "Where are we from the Prophet as his past and future sins have been forgiven." Then one of them said, "I will offer the prayer throughout the night forever." The other said, "I will fast throughout the year and will not break my fast." The third said, "I will keep away from the women and will not marry forever." Allah's Apostle came to them and said, "Are you the same people who said so-and-so? By Allah, I am more submissive to Allah and more afraid of Him than you; yet I fast and break my fast, I do sleep and I also marry women. So he who does not follow my tradition in religion, is not from me (not one of my followers)."


In other words these 3 men wanted to take a practice such as fasting or praying and extremely practice it by over doing it, but it wouldn't have been permissible. Doing so is a lot of effort and there are many examples where the prophet chose easier alternatives over hard ones because Muslims are allowed to live their lives normally while practicing and don't have to resort to 24/7 worship to such an extreme level.
Nice post bro, and yes I did mean that lol, Bro that is a nice hadith and I'm sure I have heard it before...
__________________
Appreciate 0
      05-24-2007, 03:37 PM   #200
hks786
Major General
United Kingdom
1044
Rep
5,366
Posts

Drives: *
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_! View Post
> Then I challenge you to read this website COMPLETELY and tell me if EVERY SINGLE EXAMPLE (there are hundreds) is a matter of misinterpretation.

Christians have similar websites. They even have the face of Jesus burned on toast!

Like the shroud of Turin, it depicts a caucasian with long hair and Jesus was short curly haired and dark-skinned, so it's obviously suspect, but no more so than any of the compelling evidence given by other religions.
But the difference is, this could be a mere coincidence, there are LOTS of flaws in Christianity. Why would Gods son need to be sacrificed when at the time, there were other methods of washing away sins such as transferring sins to goats and sending them away, ie the goats would take the sins of the people away, so why would it be necessary to sacrifice Gods son? and why would god let his son suffer like that? why is gods son part of god but Mary is not a wife of gods? for me Christianity has many unanswered questions but so far everything you have asked me about Islam, I have given you great answers with quotes from the Holy Quran. Whether you choose to see the that the Quran has science, history and miraculous happenings combined into one book with an Islamic way of life detailed, is another matter...
__________________
Appreciate 0
      05-24-2007, 03:41 PM   #201
Max_!
First Lieutenant
3
Rep
350
Posts

Drives: E91
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Europe

iTrader: (0)

> You say you would like to burn in hell RATHER than be a servant? In Hell the LEAST punishment is that you would stand on burning rocks and the heat would boil your brains

Yeah, it's a character flaw.
Appreciate 0
      05-24-2007, 03:43 PM   #202
Max_!
First Lieutenant
3
Rep
350
Posts

Drives: E91
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Europe

iTrader: (0)

> Why would Gods son need to be sacrificed when at the time, there were other methods of washing away sins such as transferring sins to goats and sending them away

Ah, but you yourself said that we can't understand god's way and that he has his reason for doing completely illogical things.

And since there's an afterlife, his son didn't really die but he came back to him.
Appreciate 0
      05-24-2007, 03:52 PM   #203
hks786
Major General
United Kingdom
1044
Rep
5,366
Posts

Drives: *
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Yeah, it's a character flaw

Your character can change, my mother used to be a Christian, she knows the bible inside out, but she now sees the many flaws in the bible and sees how complete Islam is. She is a firm believer....
__________________
Appreciate 0
      05-24-2007, 03:54 PM   #204
hks786
Major General
United Kingdom
1044
Rep
5,366
Posts

Drives: *
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max_! View Post
>Ah, but you yourself said that we can't understand god's way and that he has his reason for doing completely illogical things.

And since there's an afterlife, his son didn't really die but he came back to him.
Yes, I did, BUT Allah NEVER has mysterious UNJUST ways, Allah says every soul shall earn what it earned, no soul shall be wronged, and not even the deed the size of a musterseed would be unaccounted for. Why should Jesus die for the sins of this horrible world?

Edit: I didnt see this bit...

And since there's an afterlife, his son didn't really die but he came back to him.

Yes but the whole point is Islam demonstrates fairness ie when Allah says every soul will earn what it earned. So why would Gods son have to suffer in the first place. Jesus even asked God to please make there be another way instead of his death. And what about the pain that Jesus suffered and the HUMILATION ? God humilates his enemys, not his son. And what about the forgiveness ritual involving the goat. Why sacrifice Gods son if merely sending a goat away with the peoples sins would suffice? and the whole aspect in christianity of forgiveness is wrong in my opinion, how can priests etc have the power to forgive? only Allah has this power surely...
__________________
Appreciate 0
      05-24-2007, 04:47 PM   #205
hks786
Major General
United Kingdom
1044
Rep
5,366
Posts

Drives: *
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Regarding how Jesus cannot be God's son, please look at this:

Da Vinci Code Broken?

Here is how Muslim scholars present their understanding and "break the code":

How Muslim scholars "broke the code":

Creation itself tells us there is a creator and from the beginning of time – Allah, (the One God in Arabic) alone is to be worshiped. This is clear teaching throughout the Old testament (Torah), the scriptures that Jesus himself read and taught from. God is one not one of three; for example: ‘He is God; there is no other besides Him’. (Deuteronomy 4:35). The same is mentioned in the book of Mark in the New Testament, chapter 12, verse 29, when Jesus, peace be upon him, had been asked about the Greatest Commandment he replied, "To know, O Israel, the Lord your God is One Lord; and you have to love Him with all your heart and all your mind and all your strength."

The rest of this can be found at: http://islamcode.com/

Please also consider that in the bible it also says Jesus did not eat pigs or pork, he prayed with his head on the ground etc. these are all muslim traditions. Jesus also said according to christians, the right path is the path that looks confined and restricting. Well, Islam has a law that must be followed. This law can appear restricting ie, women have to cover their heads. This is because we respect women, do you ever hear of muslims that follow Islam to rape women? no. And at the time of Jesus, did Jesus worship "the cross" or was there any churchs with crosses etc? no these traditions crept up into the religion later. Infact most christians dont know these things, they just follow what has been given to them by their fathers...no insult intended
__________________
Appreciate 0
      05-24-2007, 05:27 PM   #206
ATG
Major
ATG's Avatar
Cuba
42
Rep
1,058
Posts

Drives: f30 328 xdrive, e90 335i gone
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Eastside

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Here is my code:

Faith is opium
Under all circumstances
Check your brain
Knowledge will prevail

Those who are not afraid
Have the guts to admit the truth
Alas, everything comes from and goes back to Nothingness
That is the law of nature

But, people like fairy tales
Some day we will all know (actually we won't, because we will not exist).

Go ahead and break it!
Appreciate 0
      05-24-2007, 05:41 PM   #207
Ninjaneer
Shadow Warrior
Ninjaneer's Avatar
United_States
69
Rep
2,096
Posts

Drives: '07 335i Sedan
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

BTW I've only come across this thread yesterday... don't really visit this section much. But good job to everyone here for presenting their opinions/beliefs respectfully
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATG View Post
Here is my code:

Faith is opium
Under all circumstances
Check your brain
Knowledge will prevail

Those who are not afraid
Have the guts to admit the truth
Alas, everything comes from and goes back to Nothingness
That is the law of nature


But, people like fairy tales
Some day we will all know (actually we won't, because we will not exist).

Go ahead and break it!
Hey ATG, what does "knowledge" refer to here? Science type of knowledge? Some would argue that there's also knowledge of scriptures... but from the other parts I highlighted I'd imagine there's no place for that and your alluding to a belief that doesn't follow the whole God/Heaven/Hell/Prophets provisions.

I see you updated the "some day we will all know" bit (I think it was before I replied lol), cos I was about to say that seemed out of place in the beginning!
__________________
335i E90 / Arctic / Gray / Burl Walnut / Steptronic / ZPP / ZSP / Paddles / CA / Nav / PDC / OEM Spoiler
Mods:
PIAA Angel Eyes, Rear Fog Switch, Escort X50 Blue hardwire, 30% Charcoal Llumar
Installing soon: Rear Power Outlets (Happy Robot mod!)
Appreciate 0
      05-24-2007, 06:07 PM   #208
ATG
Major
ATG's Avatar
Cuba
42
Rep
1,058
Posts

Drives: f30 328 xdrive, e90 335i gone
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Eastside

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjaneer View Post
BTW I've only come across this thread yesterday... don't really visit this section much. But good job to everyone here for presenting their opinions/beliefs respectfully


Hey ATG, what does "knowledge" refer to here? Science type of knowledge? Some would argue that there's also knowledge of scriptures... but from the other parts I highlighted I'd imagine there's no place for that and your alluding to a belief that doesn't follow the whole God/Heaven/Hell/Prophets provisions.

I see you updated the "some day we will all know" bit (I think it was before I replied lol), cos I was about to say that seemed out of place in the beginning!
Well, my code was written a bit loosely, so don't try to pry into the meaning of the words too much. BTW, did you break it? I guess not, since you highlighted the wrong parts ...

As to "some day we'll know," I was just in a hurry, but needed something to finish the code. Then I realized that the parenthetical explanation was necessary to prevent potential criticism.
Appreciate 0
      05-24-2007, 06:16 PM   #209
hks786
Major General
United Kingdom
1044
Rep
5,366
Posts

Drives: *
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Faith is opium
Under all circumstances
Check your brain
Knowledge will prevail

Those who are not afraid
Have the guts to admit the truth
Alas, everything comes from and goes back to Nothingness
That is the law of nature

But, people like fairy tales
Some day we will all know (actually we won't, because we will not exist).


Here is what we muslims believe the beginning of the Earth to be:


Quran and the Beginning of the Universe


The science of modern cosmology clearly indicates that at one point in time, the whole universe was nothing but a cloud of 'smoke' (i.e. an opaque highly dense and hot gaseous composition). This is one of the undisputed principles of standard modern cosmology.

Scientists now can observe new stars forming out of the remnants of that 'smoke'. The illuminating stars we see at night were, just as was the whole universe, in that 'smoke' material.

Scanning the skies for galaxies Canadian astronomer Paul Hickson and colleagues identified some 100 compact groups of galaxies, now appropriately called Hickson Compact Groups HCGs. With only a few member galaxies per group, HCGs are much smaller than the immense clusters of galaxies which lurk in the cosmos, but like the large galaxy clusters, some HCGs seem to be filled with hot, x-ray emitting gas. In fact, groups of galaxies like HCGs may be the building blocks of the large clusters.
-- Astronomy Picture of the Day: 2001 March 9 - http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap010309.html

Then He turned to the heavens when it was smoke...
Quran 41:11 -


Because the earth and the heavens above (the sun, moon, stars, planets, galaxies, etc.) have been formed from this same 'smoke' we conclude that the earth and the heavens were one connected entity. Then out of this homogeneous 'smoke', they formed and separated from each other.

Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them?..
Quran 21:30 -


Professor Alfred Kroner is one of the world's well-known geologists. He is a Professor of the Department of Geosciences, University of Mainz, in Germany. He stated -

"Thinking where Muhammad came from, I think it is almost impossible that he could have known about things like the common origin of the universe, because scientists have only found out within the last few years with very complicated and advance technological methods that this is the case."

He also stated -

"Somebody who did not know something about nuclear physics fourteen hundred years ago could not, I think, be in a position to find out from his own mind, for instance, that the earth and the heavens had the same origin."



Therefore I ask how can everything come from nothingness? everything we know IS matter. Our bodys, animals, plants, other planets, the whole UNIVERSE is made up from matter. so how can this matter come to exist in the first place. It cannot simply appear. To this date, Islam is the only acceptable explanation in my opinion for the beginning of time. So far everything is backed up by science as I have shown, whereas, other religious scriptures are flawed and inaccurate. And people that are of no religion at all, fail to satisfy my questions since noone really explains to me how matter can exist from nothing without there being and intelligent being to begin with (Allah)
__________________
Appreciate 0
      05-24-2007, 06:28 PM   #210
ATG
Major
ATG's Avatar
Cuba
42
Rep
1,058
Posts

Drives: f30 328 xdrive, e90 335i gone
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Eastside

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Yes sir
Omnipotent nothingness
Universe (the) is made of

And our bodys, animals, plants, and factories
Rats, dogs, and cats
Equally come from and go back to nothingness

Not sure if you will ever understand that
Usually people don't
That has an easy explanation
Shit, it's pretty had to finish the code and stay on topic
Appreciate 0
      05-24-2007, 07:11 PM   #211
hks786
Major General
United Kingdom
1044
Rep
5,366
Posts

Drives: *
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATG View Post
Yes sir
Omnipotent nothingness
Universe (the) is made of

And our bodys, animals, plants, and factories
Rats, dogs, and cats
Equally come from and go back to nothingness

Not sure if you will ever understand that
Usually people don't
That has an easy explanation
Shit, it's pretty had to finish the code and stay on topic
But that is impossible. What would trigger matter to exist? everything has a creator (apart from Allah) so what or who created matter? So far I find your code hard to accept whereas the proof I gave you above is hugely amazing. So far I am the only person on the board to produce proofs from the Quran AND modern science (which agree with eachother) to support what I say. I would be very interested to see other people's evidence for what they say. I am genuinly interested...
__________________
Appreciate 0
      05-24-2007, 07:15 PM   #212
LambOfGod
Lieutenant
LambOfGod's Avatar
9
Rep
571
Posts

Drives: 335 Red Sedan
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Michigan

iTrader: (0)

Good One!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fire-n-ice View Post
the same way you fall for the atheist's myth.
I love it!

Only a creator can be responsible for the BMW 335i. WTF! Is this guy stupid!
Appreciate 0
      05-24-2007, 07:17 PM   #213
ATG
Major
ATG's Avatar
Cuba
42
Rep
1,058
Posts

Drives: f30 328 xdrive, e90 335i gone
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Eastside

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
If you can't even brake my two VERY easy codes (just open your eyes!), I don't think you can prove anything to me.
Appreciate 0
      05-24-2007, 07:18 PM   #214
hks786
Major General
United Kingdom
1044
Rep
5,366
Posts

Drives: *
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LambOfGod View Post
I love it!
Hey LambOfGod, may I ask what you think of this thread and the various things we have all posted ?
__________________
Appreciate 0
      05-24-2007, 07:19 PM   #215
ATG
Major
ATG's Avatar
Cuba
42
Rep
1,058
Posts

Drives: f30 328 xdrive, e90 335i gone
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Eastside

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by LambOfGod View Post
I love it!
Lamb of God:

How come an innocent child in you userpic is showing such a horrific thing with his (or her) middle finger???
Appreciate 0
      05-24-2007, 07:20 PM   #216
ATG
Major
ATG's Avatar
Cuba
42
Rep
1,058
Posts

Drives: f30 328 xdrive, e90 335i gone
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Eastside

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by hks786 View Post
Hey LambOfGod, may I ask what you think of this thread and the various things we have all posted ?

Give your vote to hks786!
Appreciate 0
      05-24-2007, 07:21 PM   #217
hks786
Major General
United Kingdom
1044
Rep
5,366
Posts

Drives: *
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATG View Post
If you can't even brake my two VERY easy codes (just open your eyes!), I don't think you can prove anything to me.
Its late here, Im tired lol, why dont u check out www.islamcode.com, it shows how Islam cracked the da vinci code....


Edit:

But, people like fairy tales
Some day we will all know (actually we won't, because we will not exist).


Actually that part I disagree with, because when the end of the world comes and the day of ressurection comes, Allah will cause everyone and everything to die and then he will raise everyone again to appear before him and he will judge us. Signs of the last day are in the Quran, many have been proved to have occured already. You said "some day we will all know" - this is true, Allah says in the Quran he will decide in matters that ye dispute about. This is because Allah is the all-knowing and all-seeing, therefore, where we humans dispute, Allah will judge and tell us who was right and who was wrong, and mankind will be sent either to Heaven or Hell, for eternity....
__________________
Appreciate 0
      05-24-2007, 07:22 PM   #218
LambOfGod
Lieutenant
LambOfGod's Avatar
9
Rep
571
Posts

Drives: 335 Red Sedan
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Michigan

iTrader: (0)

Cool Is'nt it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATG View Post
Lamb of God:

How come an innocent child in you userpic is showing such a horrific thing with his (or her) middle finger???
The little guys expresses how I feel inside sometimes when I come across idiot people and life in general.
Appreciate 0
      05-24-2007, 07:23 PM   #219
ATG
Major
ATG's Avatar
Cuba
42
Rep
1,058
Posts

Drives: f30 328 xdrive, e90 335i gone
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Eastside

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
alright, have a good night then. Just remember to read my codes in the morning --you might experience revelation after a good sleep.
Appreciate 0
      05-24-2007, 07:25 PM   #220
ATG
Major
ATG's Avatar
Cuba
42
Rep
1,058
Posts

Drives: f30 328 xdrive, e90 335i gone
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Eastside

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by LambOfGod View Post
The little guys expresses how I feel inside sometimes when I come across idiot people and life in general.
So you have a little hand with a finger inside you? that's pretty cool...

And what do you have against life in general?
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:08 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST