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      06-13-2009, 01:52 PM   #45
Montoya
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Originally Posted by shiv View Post
Since i noticed the lag with the M-DCT on the test drive i really don't want to set my self up for dissapointment. This is going to be my daily driver and i am not tracking the car so i will probably go with the 6-MT.
I think you will be happier. What color??
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      06-13-2009, 02:25 PM   #46
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... I don't believe BMW would have developed the M5/6/3 engine in its current format if SMG/DCT technology was not a critical element, the compromised barely adequate level of torque would be otherwise a compromise too far.
Another really weak argument. The M5 and M6 are pitifully matched to the SMG, not because of any faults with the engines, just it's a clunky and slow transmission. Driving the M3 and M6 back to back at the Virginia International Raceway, the big guy shifts hard and slow at WOT while the little guy simply changes pitch in a few microseconds.

The V10 and V8 both have incredibly broad torque curves, combined with redlines North of 8200 rpm. Those engines would mate well to almost any transmission. Wittness the V8 in the M3 6MT. Every performance shift falls back into the fat part of the torque curve. Thanks partly to the VANOS and ECU mapping, you can drive in gear down to 600 rpm and floor it with no bucking or complaint.

The new engines are getting the DCT simply because the SMG didn't work and now we've finally got the DCT. They didn't say several years ago (when the V10 first started development), "Hey, this DCT idea has some real legs, let's design engines that will work real well with this undeveloped technology, if it works." That's simply a crazy thought.

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      06-13-2009, 03:49 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by dcstep View Post
They didn't say several years ago (when the V10 first started development), "Hey, this DCT idea has some real legs, let's design engines that will work real well with this undeveloped technology, if it works." That's simply a crazy thought.
You think DCT is new technology?
VW/Audi has been using DSG for years, unfortunately BMW had to wait for the exclusive licence the VW/Audi group had with Borg Warner to expire (around 2006/7 IIRC). Getrag then were free to licence some of the technology from BW to incorporate into the DCT.
The V10 was developed to be mated to an SMG... both SMGs and DCTs require exactly the same engine characteristics so an engine developed to be an ideal match for an SMG will be equally ideal for a DCT.
The M3s V8 was developed later than the V10 and it would be entirely reasonable to believe that BMW always planned to use the DCT technology which would be available from 2007 onwards.
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      06-13-2009, 03:57 PM   #48
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...
The M3s V8 was developed later than the V10 and it would be entirely reasonable to believe that BMW always planned to use the DCT technology which would be available from 2007 onwards.
The V10 and V8 are basically the same engine with a different cylinder count. They're pretty much behave alike.

Anyway, you allegation that the engines in the M3 were developed specifically for the DCT has no merit at all. Of course, the ECU and VANOs are probably adjusted slightly to optimize for whichever transmission is used, but to say the basic design was predicated by the tranmission is silly.

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