The best thing that ever happened to the M Division

[M3WC]

GT-R will be a M3 competitor when it is offered in sedan form, if ever.

Every comparo the M3 has won its segment. Period.

Go warm up your 91 Accord and go for a drive.

Originally Posted by rldzhao

Yes the GT-R can out-perform the M3 in all technical catagories, but where the M3 shines is the feeling of driving it. The perfect balance, connected steering, agile chassis, high-reving V8...

A car is not just about setting lap times, it's also about the fun of driving it.

+1

Internet kids just don't unerstand. It is all about how involving a car is.

[ruff]

For everyone who takes the time to responds to this thread, your criticisms and debate are appreciated.

[kbk_75]

I guess I understand what ruff said, but I also agree with a lot of what the others have said.

>GT-Rs have been beating M3s for a long time in terms of outright pace.

>M3 is a far better daily driver (yes, it drinks fuel, so if you care about that over everything else, buy a 335) than the GT-R.

>M3 is waaaay easier on the eyes (my opinion).

>I much prefer the inside of the M3 to the GT-R. I know you can get most of the M3 look in a 335 as well, but I'm afraid I can't bear the gadget overloaded, gimmicky look that the GT-R has. In all honesty I have no interest in seeing a graph that displays how many Gs I'm pulling. The very fact that the system was made by a video game manufacturer (that thinks it produces the REAL driving simulator, when it actually rewards a player for using other cars as mobile turning aids) explains its credentials.

>I haven't driven a GT-R, but from what I've read I would love to take one for a drive, maybe even every now and then. Definitely on a track. But would I rather own a GT-R to my M3, absolutely no chance...and that's why BMW got my money. As JEllis said "BMW does not care", they are achieving what they set out to achieve with the M3.

[montreal red]

the gtr is an awesome car and i love its performance... but i still ordered an m3... maybe i am dumb but i like the m3's balance of refinement, usability and daily driving ability....i sat in a GTR before and i still like the interior of the m3 more... i also like the styling of the m3 more than the GTR and things like folding back seats is a plus because i'll be able to fit my bicycle in the car without using racks....

if i had the money to do so, i would no doubt get a GTR as a track car and an m3 as my daily car but i dont have the money to do that... so i have to decide which is more important. obviously for me, it would be to have a solid daily driver that i can use comfortably.

[sayemthree]

i would get an Accord before I got an GTR - but only the V6 2 door accord.

[GnokGnik]

Originally Posted by sayemthree

i would get an Accord before I got an GTR - but only the V6 2 door accord.

HUGE blind spots on the new one lol

anyways, my guess is BMW's M division doesn't care. If they had, they would have gone the CSL route instead of the X6 M route.

[footie]

The question is not whether BMW and Porsche feel they need to compete with Nissan, the reality is that they don't. The kind of person who buys either a Porsche or a BMW will still buy that car and the reason is Nissan as a brand aren't held in as high esteem for image, the key deciding factor for one to purchase a car or not. Sure some will make the shift to Nissan but the percentage will be so small as to not be worth noticing.

There is only one car of the horizon that could possibly have BMW M-Division concerned and that is the RS5, it's a direct rival on both image and status and the kind of person who might purchase an M3 will also look at an Audi if it delivers on the driving experience.

Next year will be an interesting time for us and BMW.

[adamr]

Originally Posted by sayemthree

this from an Accord driver?

OP:
the GTR is a nice car and i will buy one and im sure many of the M3 drivers here can afford one and buy one if they wanted to ... you dont own either the GTR or M3 ... sooo .... :finger:

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by ruff

For everyone who takes the time to responds to this thread, your criticisms and debate are appreciated.

Hey ruff, have you decided on a car yet?

[Romo]

What Ruff is saying;

Competition isn`t a bad thing...........................and so it is, it brings the best performance out of the manufacturers, everybody should be happy with this.

It is like the Chinese walking in space as we speak, so it`s time for Americans to beef up the speed on space exploration, as the NASA has slept for years because of lack in competition .................................think about that.....to boldly go, where no one has gone before..................................( OMG, why does it take that long??)

[bigjae1976]

I agree that fuel economy is the one area where the M3 really lacks. A Z51 vette still gets 26mpg on the highway and I'm surprised that BMW couldn't get closer.

But this whole GTR>M3 thing...have you even driven both cars or are you just looking at numbers printed in a magazine?

[bruce.augenstein@comcast.]

Originally Posted by ruff

and for that matter the rest of the sports car world:

The Nissan GT-R.

Gotta love the outcry of incestuous whining among the car manufactures and their fanboys about this car.

Let me start with Porsche and their cult following. Porsche simply needs to shut up, step up to the plate and produce, especially given their highway robbery price points. Porsche can't beat Nissan right now, in fact they can't even compete, when comparing dollar to dollar. Porsche's hand has now been forced. The monopoly is over, thank you very much Nissan.

BMW doesn't produce any car, even a 100k one that can compete with the GT-R. This is not my opinion, this is a fact. BMW enthusiasts need to write a letter of thanks to Nissan for waking up the M Division, who have been asleep at the wheel for two too many German winters.

I find it fascinating when E92 M3 enthusiasts like to say the GT-R is not a direct competitor to the M3. They say this for one reason and one reason only, the M3 does not perform up to Nissan standards. So who is the M3's direct competitor, the four dour ISF, the four door C63, and the four door RS4, simply because it can beat them consistently on the track? Or how about the two door, four seat GT-R configured the same as the M3?

That leads to the argument about the M3 being the best all around daily driver. Answer is: it use to be. This M3 is no longer a great daily driver for one simple reason: It is a gas pig, especially for a lightweight low torque 4 litre V8. To put it in to perspective, the Viper's 600 hp 8.4 litre V10 with gargantuan levels of torque is able to attain a 13/22 mileage rating. Think about it.

Dct has been a disappointment. No real efficiency advantage as advertised and glitches that actually make it a liability at the track. On the other hand, The GT-R's dct transmission is an advantage at the track.

The M3 brakes are what they are, good stoppers but fade prone and not up to extended track work. How about the argument that multi piston are not an advancement over single piston? And what will we be saying when the M3 finally gets multi-piston stoppers? Who among us will still cling to the mantra that single piston is better? Love the argument that nice looking painted brakes are not desirable, yet these same people spend more than a grand to buy 19" bling wheels that slightly reduce performance over the standard 18s.

Thanks to the the the GT-R, the poor economy, high fuel prices, and even the CTS-V and R8, I believe in the near future, the M division is going to once again be at the head of it's class at building the best all around sports car for the money. You watch, world class engine and drivetrains + DFI and light weight materials = world beater at a reasonable price.

Oh my God, you are such an electronically dead man!

Nice post.

Bruce

[snoopy]

Originally Posted by rob612

i stopped reading after this stupid point... LOW TORQUE? uh huh..

you're comparing a 6 cyl turbo vs an 8 cyl naturally aspirated.. basicly you want us to say thank you and wake up M division? if i ever decided to go away from the M tradition of naturally aspirated and put in turbo.. a turbo charged M3 will kill the gtr. sorry buddy but you were never comparing apples to apples.. just the price tag.

nice try though..

he was actually trying to compare the viper engine to the m3, putting in perspective not only the torque but the gas mileage. if you add x and y to the m3 then it will own the gtr....please. The m3 loses out in every performance aspect no use arguing it really. Just keep arguing for the " feel " of the car, these intangible aspects of a car such as soul, tradition, and passion. I guess you'll never really be proven wrong.

but the m3 is so amazingly sexy. Id much rather have looks over a few extra seconds on the track.

[McLuVan]

Originally Posted by ///Mantis

most of us love the GTR. GTR is not a competitor to M3 coz not only it beats it by far in terms of performance but also technology. you forgot RS5 as a competitor to m3 which is a 4 seater 2 door coupe

the GTR was aimed at 997tt, not at anything else. GTR is a very stiff ride, the M3 and its competitors are "luxury" comfortable fast rides.

I'm not sure how GTR woke up the M division. i still dont see a car that can compete with it, not today, not tomorrow.

The japanese have done great work on the GTR, it's a brilliant piece of engineering for sure, and competition will always bring the best to us, consumers.

it's unfortunately but yes 80% of M3 drivers get it coz its the "top of the line 3 sports car from bmw", and they do throw some bling bling shit on it, most dont know how to drive it, cant appreciate the performance aspects it offers. it's sad, but true.

DCT is on its first release, it is like any other thing bound to have bugs which are being worked on. do you know that the GTR is bug-free?? no!

enough said

[McLuVan]

Originally Posted by kbk_75

I guess I understand what ruff said, but I also agree with a lot of what the others have said.

>GT-Rs have been beating M3s for a long time in terms of outright pace.

>M3 is a far better daily driver (yes, it drinks fuel, so if you care about that over everything else, buy a 335) than the GT-R.

>M3 is waaaay easier on the eyes (my opinion).

>I much prefer the inside of the M3 to the GT-R. I know you can get most of the M3 look in a 335 as well, but I'm afraid I can't bear the gadget overloaded, gimmicky look that the GT-R has. In all honesty I have no interest in seeing a graph that displays how many Gs I'm pulling. The very fact that the system was made by a video game manufacturer (that thinks it produces the REAL driving simulator, when it actually rewards a player for using other cars as mobile turning aids) explains its credentials.

>I haven't driven a GT-R, but from what I've read I would love to take one for a drive, maybe even every now and then. Definitely on a track. But would I rather own a GT-R to my M3, absolutely no chance...and that's why BMW got my money. As JEllis said "BMW does not care", they are achieving what they set out to achieve with the M3.

the gtr has been ahead of the m3 for A LONG time
the r35 just put everyones attention onto the gtr

[McLuVan]

I was looking into the gtr but found out that transmission oil cost about $80 a quart and it takes 10 quarts to fill
it's just too much.....
I want to be able to change my wheels and exhaust without the world ending
it's a sick car
but the maintenance is no where near an m3
it makes the m3 look like a honda in terms of maintenance

[McLuVan]

and the transmission replacements aren't due to clutch packs either.....

what else
brake pads....are like $500 for two off of courtesynissan.com
I don't know guys
doesn't sound like an m3 competitor to me

[Dascamel]

Who dropped some rocks into that guys tranny? That thing looks like a mess.

[White Shark]

To OP,

Car & Driver says 2008 M3 better than 2009 GT-R and 2008 911 Turbo! It seems M division is already "at the head of it's class at building the best all around sports car for the money" !!

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...omparison_test

[Saturn]

My thoughts about the thread are mixed, I both agree and disagree. However, to those people who are bashing him because he drives an accord, you exemplify every "douchebag elitist M3 driver" stereotype.

[J08M3]

The best car is a matter of opinion not fact.

[Minimization]

[QUOTE=bigjae1976;3419327]I agree that fuel economy is the one area where the M3 really lacks. A Z51 vette still gets 26mpg on the highway and I'm surprised that BMW couldn't get closer.

But this whole GTR>M3 thing...have you even driven both cars or are you just looking at numbers printed in a magazine?[/QUOTE

A Z07 gets 26 mi/gal too!

An E63 AMG gets 20 mi/gal!

It would be nice if BMW M cars could get mi/gal comparable to their competitors, normalized to displacement.