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      12-03-2014, 10:33 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by mjposner
As I have said before, what has been the biggest complaints from current M3 owners:

1. Not enough torque
2. bad fuel economy
3. gas guzzler tax
4. car weight

So BMW goes out and builds a lighter, faster car that gets better fuel economy and has no gas guzzler tax.

The new car is for the 95% average M3 driver who leases the car for 3 years, wants a new car and stays in the family, drive it daily and do not track. Cayman is way to small and not practical, the 911 and gtr are over 100k, the mustang is too down market, and the lexus, despite na, is still a lexus with an ugly puss and auto slush box.

So, first new rule, if you have not really driven the new car, temper your opinions, it comes off as shrill and jealous. If you have blast away! I have not and will reserve till I get some seat time.
Ya people buying a 60-80k car are sure getting mad about that 1k tax. I would say most people buying new the gas tax was not a problem. In fact I was happy to see it.

The only thing I see people really complain about is the lack of torque. But if getting more torque means my car will have a small turbo engine that sounds like shit. No thanks
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      12-03-2014, 10:36 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
Rough quality Driver's Republic review with M3 vs ISF vs C63. These are Evo guys (not Harris anymore). Soaking wet in this vid too.
The fact that Jethro bought one himself (and Harris owned a coupe) and Harris picked it even while expressing his love for the AMG, says a lot.

Only one they felt confident in on those roads in wet conditions...

and "the engine is so special."

Harris does seem to fancy (his word) the new M3/4 quite a lot, fwiw.

Last edited by davesaddiction; 12-03-2014 at 02:27 PM..
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      12-03-2014, 10:43 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Alex07M3 View Post
Come on man, you must understand that Auto Bilds car of the year is just a popularity contest, the people that votes have'nt even drove the car!! lol

And yes Evos test is a subjective one but so as any sport that use judges to determine a winner, does that make the results irrelevant!? No! Specially in a situation where all of the judges ranked the M3 in the last and second to last position, that says a lot!!

IMO, the new M3 IS a disapointment because it falls short of expectations in many categories, high expectations created by the previous M3 models. And trust me when I say that I wanted to like it and maybe eventually order one to replace my E92 and Evo X but this model just does'nt attract me. I'm sure that the next RS5 will be a much better package for most people then the F8x, mostly because of AWD but I'm expecting a better engine also, one that will sound great and will be easilly tunable via ECU. And franckly, I'm not in love with the look either, I think they tried too hard with the front end!
So is the Evo test...by 8 or 10 car journos. The F8X is much more fun to drive (tons of low end torque), is faster than my E92 on the track and in a straight, more aggressive, sportier styling, better mpg. Amazing cabin sound.
I was like you untill I test drove the F8X.

My lord, what a disappointment!
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      12-03-2014, 10:53 AM   #92
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I guess we are all buying the new Shelby GT350 next to recapture some of the lost 'M' magic.

Hey at least, changing brakes won't cost us > $1200!!!!
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      12-03-2014, 11:21 AM   #93
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I may be getting into something older... 996 tt
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      12-03-2014, 11:28 AM   #94
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I'm quite surprised the f80 m3 is still getting so much heat and that it scored so low. What's more surprising is people complaining about "too much power" in the f80 M3. Seriously?? A lot of people weren't satisfied with the stock power of the e9x M3, especially since they were getting smoked by tuned 335's. Of course, I'm sure at the track it didn't matter but let's be honest, most M3 owners on and off forums don't track their cars and are more concerned with going fast in the streets. So now the new M3 goes fast in a straight line as well as around the corner so I really don't understand all this complaining.

We have a predetermined mindset about the f80 M3 because we drive and love the e9x M3. We can't help but compare the new one to our old and try to justify why our car is better than the new one. But for someone that has no loyalty to the e9x M3 will go out and buy a f8x because it is newer, faster, more efficient, and improved overall over the last gen. As with all generations of M3, it'll take some time before the new M3 can settle in. Despite some bad reviews, I have no doubt the f8x M will do just fine in the years to come.
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      12-03-2014, 11:39 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STooK View Post
I'm quite surprised the f80 m3 is still getting so much heat and that it scored so low. What's more surprising is people complaining about "too much power" in the f80 M3. Seriously?? A lot of people weren't satisfied with the stock power of the e9x M3, especially since they were getting smoked by tuned 335's. Of course, I'm sure at the track it didn't matter but let's be honest, most M3 owners on and off forums don't track their cars and are more concerned with going fast in the streets. So now the new M3 goes fast in a straight line as well as around the corner so I really don't understand all this complaining.

We have a predetermined mindset about the f80 M3 because we drive and love the e9x M3. We can't help but compare the new one to our old and try to justify why our car is better than the new one. But for someone that has no loyalty to the e9x M3 will go out and buy a f8x because it is newer, faster, more efficient, and improved overall over the last gen. As with all generations of M3, it'll take some time before the new M3 can settle in. Despite some bad reviews, I have no doubt the f8x M will do just fine in the years to come.
Put an M3, any M3 in a comparison with a Ferrari 458 Speciale, Mclaren and Porsches and see how they do.

I find it hilarious that people now all of a sudden are saying it has too much power. Use your bloody head. I don't care what car you are in. If it has 400+ hp and ft-lbs of torque, there's a good chance it'll be a handful in the wet.

P.S. Still think the F80/2 needs more a set of substantially meatier tires.
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      12-03-2014, 11:45 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by V1.47fan View Post
So is the Evo test...by 8 or 10 car journos. The F8X is much more fun to drive (tons of low end torque), is faster than my E92 on the track and in a straight, more aggressive, sportier styling, better mpg. Amazing cabin sound.
I was like you untill I test drove the F8X.

My lord, what a disappointment!
False!

I'm not saying the f8x is not fun, but I think my M3 with the supercharger is closer to what I would have wanted from a new M3 model then what the F8x is, as simple as that. There's also the overdone exterior styling that is not my cup of tea so I don't see any good reason to switch for the new car.
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      12-03-2014, 11:50 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by checkmate View Post
I guess we are all buying the new Shelby GT350 next to recapture some of the lost 'M' magic.

Hey at least, changing brakes won't cost us > $1200!!!!
At almost 4,000lb, with cheap plastics everywhere that should be perfect.

Nobody does luxury sports car better than Ford.
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      12-03-2014, 11:51 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Put an M3, any M3 in a comparison with a Ferrari 458 Speciale, Mclaren and Porsches and see how they do.

I find it hilarious that people now all of a sudden are saying it has too much power. Use your bloody head. I don't care what car you are in. If it has 400+ hp and ft-lbs of torque, there's a good chance it'll be a handful in the wet.

P.S. Still think the F80/2 needs more a set of substantially meatier tires.
Completely agree with you. I'm not surprised it lost to the 458 and Porsche, but to a Golf? C'mon....

Yea I think they should come with at least 295's in the rear.
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      12-03-2014, 12:06 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by STooK View Post
Completely agree with you. I'm not surprised it lost to the 458 and Porsche, but to a Golf? C'mon....

Yea I think they should come with at least 295's in the rear.
A MT F80 is clearly in my sights as my next car, but you have to admit it's disconcerting when every single reviewer believed that the Golf was a more enjoyable driver's car than the M3.

I really want to love the new M3 (as I did when I purchased my E90), so I'm hoping that when I have the opportunity to test-drive the new one, that I'll have the same passion for the car as previous generations.

Perhaps having my expectations lowered by many of these reviews is a good thing
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      12-03-2014, 12:06 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Put an M3, any M3 in a comparison with a Ferrari 458 Speciale, Mclaren and Porsches and see how they do.

I find it hilarious that people now all of a sudden are saying it has too much power. Use your bloody head. I don't care what car you are in. If it has 400+ hp and ft-lbs of torque, there's a good chance it'll be a handful in the wet.

P.S. Still think the F80/2 needs more a set of substantially meatier tires.

What about the E9x? I had no grip with 265.
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      12-03-2014, 12:07 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Put an M3, any M3 in a comparison with a Ferrari 458 Speciale, Mclaren and Porsches and see how they do.

I find it hilarious that people now all of a sudden are saying it has too much power. Use your bloody head. I don't care what car you are in. If it has 400+ ft-lbs of torque from a turbo, with an engine in the front and no AWD, there's a good chance it'll be a handful in the wet.P.S. Still think the F80/2 needs more a set of substantially meatier tires.
Corrected it for you!

Seriously, I'm sure the F8x is'nt "that bad" in stock form, but for guys like me who never keep a car stock, AWD is a must if you want to fully enjoy what a tune will do to an engine like the S55!
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      12-03-2014, 12:07 PM   #102
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Firstly, I have driven the M4 twice. It is clearly faster than my e92 M3. Beyond that, however, I didn't find it to be a significant improvement. Sure the styling is new and therefore seems fresh, but the e92 left me lusting in comparison the e46, while the F8x simply does not. The car that leaves me lusting right now is the Jaguar F-type R coupe. God that thing is sexy !!!

Furthermore, that low end turbo torque is not as usable in a RWD car. The huge swell of early-mid torque that accompanies turbocharging is best suited for AWD platforms where there is sufficient traction to get all the power down.

If one wants to use forced induction on a RWD car, I feel like the more progressive power delivery of a supercharger is the way to go.

Still, in the end, RWD is best with spirited NA motors, and a number of high end cars are staying with this. A number of top American performers in the M3's power class are all NA, the Audi R8 is staying NA, the Lexus RCF is NA, among others.

The effort to remain purist with a RWD platform, but to forego the purism with a turbo motor, in my mind, has created a mismatch, and good, but less than optimal product.
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      12-03-2014, 12:13 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NavidM3E92 View Post
What about the E9x? I had no grip with 265.
No doubt! I would like to see the E9x owners raise their hands and tell me that they'd drive in those conditions with stock 245/265 with DSC off, while trying to keep up with a 458 Speciale. Let me know how that goes for you

I'm not saying that the E9x is not easier to control at the limit than an F8x. But at the same time, the F8x is not far away from making what a Ferrari F40 used to make back in the day. Think about that for a second. Why is anyone surprised?

Xdrive for these new cars is probably not a bad idea. But imagine the riot that would cause by these so called purists because the M3/4 can be had with AWD haha.
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      12-03-2014, 12:14 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarThaL View Post
Firstly, I have driven the M4 twice. It is clearly faster than my e92 M3. Beyond that, however, I didn't find it to be a significant improvement. Sure the styling is new and therefore seems fresh, but the e92 left me lusting in comparison the e46, while the F8x simply does not. The car that leaves me lusting right now is the Jaguar F-type R coupe. God that thing is sexy !!!

Furthermore, that low end turbo torque is not as usable in a RWD car. The huge swell of early-mid torque that accompanies turbochrging is best suited for AWD platforms where there is sufficient traction to get all the power down.

If one wants to use forced induction on a RWD car, I feel like the more progressive power delivery of a supercharger is the way to go.

Still, in the end, RWD is best with spirited NA motors, and a number of high end cars are staying with this. A number of top American performers in the M3's power class are all NA, the Audi R8 is staying NA, the Lexus RCF is NA, among others.

The effort to remain purist with a RWD platform, but to forego the purism with a turbo motor, in my mind, has created a mismatch, and good, but less than optimal product.
How many extra pounds/kilos would an AWD system/transmission add to an already kind of bloated platform in terms of weight? Just curious.
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      12-03-2014, 12:19 PM   #105
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No doubt! I would like to see the E9x owners raise their hands and tell me that they'd drive in those conditions with stock 245/265 with DSC off, while trying to keep up with a 458 Speciale. Let me know how that goes for you

I'm not saying that the E9x is not easier to control at the limit than an F8x. But at the same time, the F8x is not far away from making what a Ferrari F40 used to make back in the day. Think about that for a second. Why is anyone surprised?

Xdrive for these new cars is probably not a bad idea. But imagine the riot that would cause by these so called purists because the M3/4 can be had with AWD haha.

Then the enthusiast would be complaining about awd/weight. If its not the turbos, its awd. if its not the awd, its the styling of the car. if its not the styling of the car, its that its not a v8......theyll always find something to whine about. Im waiting to see whats in for next week for what the E9x guys will complain about the new F8x.

Edit: when i do get another E9x M3, ill enjoy both for what they are and for what they were good at for their period of times
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      12-03-2014, 12:24 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by NavidM3E92 View Post
Then the enthusiast would be complaining about awd/weight. If its not the turbos, its awd. if its not the awd, its the styling of the car. if its not the styling of the car, its that its not a v8......theyll always find something to whine about. Im waiting to see whats in for next week for what the E9x guys will complain about the new F8x.
Well, I was an original owner of an '02 E46 M3 SMGII, as well as original owner of current '11 E90 M3 DCT. I have been an M3 driver for a long time. I'm not just whining when I say that I think some of the styling in the F80 is ugly, to me anyway. I still can't get over the front bumper design, to me it just looks like it's already been in an accident and needs to get repaired. And I won't even mention the vag-lip look of the front bumper, inner and outer labia, as well .
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      12-03-2014, 12:28 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NavidM3E92
Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
No doubt! I would like to see the E9x owners raise their hands and tell me that they'd drive in those conditions with stock 245/265 with DSC off, while trying to keep up with a 458 Speciale. Let me know how that goes for you

I'm not saying that the E9x is not easier to control at the limit than an F8x. But at the same time, the F8x is not far away from making what a Ferrari F40 used to make back in the day. Think about that for a second. Why is anyone surprised?

Xdrive for these new cars is probably not a bad idea. But imagine the riot that would cause by these so called purists because the M3/4 can be had with AWD haha.

Then the enthusiast would be complaining about awd/weight. If its not the turbos, its awd. if its not the awd, its the styling of the car. if its not the styling of the car, its that its not a v8......theyll always find something to whine about. Im waiting to see whats in for next week for what the E9x guys will complain about the new F8x.

Edit: when i do get another E9x M3, ill enjoy both for what they are and for what they were good at for their period of times
Can you really enjoy a car for being good on gaz!?

Seriously, I think if BMW wanted a purist car, they should have stayed N/A with RWD, now that it's turbo, might as well give it an AWD option to make it more usuable!
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      12-03-2014, 12:28 PM   #108
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Well, I was an original owner of an '02 E46 M3 SMGII, as well as original owner of current '11 E90 M3 DCT. I have been an M3 driver for a long time. I'm not just whining when I say that I think some of the styling in the F80 is ugly, to me anyway. I still can't get over the front bumper design, to me it just looks like it's already been in an accident and needs to get repaired. And I won't even mention the vag-lip look of the front bumper, inner and outer labia, as well .

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      12-03-2014, 12:32 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Alex07M3 View Post
Can you really enjoy a car for being good on gaz!?

Seriously, I think if BMW wanted a purist car, they should have stayed N/A with RWD, now that it's turbo, might as well give it an AWD option to make it more usuable!

Maybe youll change your mind over the years when more mods out come since you dont keep your cars stock.
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      12-03-2014, 12:42 PM   #110
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Most auto journo’s prefer NA engines for their linear power deliveries and high revving engines are more entertaining and controllable in track conditions IMO.

Turbo engines have a distinctly different power deliver that you either like or you don’t. That delivery can be different depending on engine size and type of FI (twin-scroll, twin turbo, single turbo etc.) but most will somewhere in the early to mid-power band wallop you with a shit ton of torque. In high HP turbo 4 applications you are working a very narrow power band of say 3,500-6,500 which isn’t really fun in a track environment. The M3/M4 obviously puts that torque down much early but it’s not progressive.

That gives you a quick kick in the pants which some like and some feel is unrefined.

It’s like a slurpee, Mmmm, yummy and delicious…mmmm…Owww, owww, owww..brainfreeeze…………………………………………………..mmmmm yummy.
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