Most Comfortable? Ohlins vs AST vs Sachs vs TCK

[a5m]

Yea, maybe coilovers are the best option. Considering these in case they're worth spending more for if they'll deliver better comfort in all street driving scenarios vs Bilstein/spring combo.

Ohlins R&T - read these suck over bumps at slow city speeds

AST 5100 - can't find much on these for street use, but seem might be too stiff?

Sachs Coilovers - probably least known offering. Reached out to them and they're now discontinued, so maybe not good for future serviceability. Richbot ran these (just rears?) and seemed to like em

TC Kline SA - seem to be loved by everybody but unlike the above, require camber plates. DA is apparently noisy by design due to the shim stack according to TC who I spoke to today

Thoughts? Looking for the ultimate street comfort setupnfor a daily E90 on 80k OEM suspension.

[M3SQRD]

Where have you read the Ohlins R&T suck over bumps? The spring rates are not very high at F/R 343/686 lbf/in (f8x spring rates are almost 2x higher). You’ll definitely notice the increase in rate but it certainly won’t suck over bumpy roads. The R&T is a smooth damper and its single adjuster alters both rebound and compression damping so you can reduce damping to allow it to better absorb bumps or increase damping to improve handling performance/control. Out of the four kits you’ve listed, I’d rate the R&T as #1 for improved street ride quality. However, if you think the spring rates are too high, Turner and 3DM offer a street setup with softer spring rates and modified damping. I’ve been using the R&T with F/R 300/300 lbf/in rates on my R56 Mini Cooper S for more than a decade.

AST 5100 is a single adjustable (rebound only) damper. It comes with tapered front springs so the oem front strut upper mounts can be reused. The 5100 can be upgraded to a 2-way (5200) or 3-way (5300) damper. AST added a tapered front spring with a helper spring to create a street kit but I don’t know if they modified the damping to make it more of a street damper. Previously, this was their entry level track damper. I’d rank this at #2.

Sachs isn’t known for making aftermarket damper kits. There’s little information available about this kit and it’s never been popular even with its lower price point. Definitely stay away if Sachs said it’s been discontinued. I’d rank this as #3 even with it being discontinued.

Not sure where to begin with TCK. In 2012 I ordered a set of TCK SA with F/R 300/600 lbf/in spring rates for my wife’s e92 M3. This kit was so underdamped even with rebound damping maxed out that I removed it in < two weeks. The ride was so poorly controlled that it made my wife nauseous. Switched to a JRZ RS1 setup and it’s been great. It’s still on the car but we’ve since increased the rates to 400/700 lbf/in. TCK uses a soft spring tuning approach and it worked great on the e36 & e46 M3s. From my own experience as well as discussions with my track friends that have tried the TCK DA setup, the soft spring approach with using either Koni SA or DA dampers just doesn’t work well on the e9x and it’s much worse on newer generations (at least he’s stopped offering SA kits with the g8x). I believe from the e46 thru the f8x, the max spring rates recommend remained the same at 400/700 lbf/in (would go up to 500/800 if you pushed back but no changes to dampers made so it was pointless because they couldn’t handle the lower rates) - there was a large delta in weight increase between the e46 and the f8x yet the same rates and similar damping were spec’d…soft springs + light damping = poor control of pitch, roll and heave motions. It just doesn’t work on the street or the track. Almost $3.5k-$4k for the DA e9x to g8x kits is laughable when you consider the Koni dampers have been around for four decades! I’d strongly recommend not using TCK SA and DA kits. I’d rank this as #4 even with one of the other options being discontinued.

[MineralWhiteF80]

There are a couple of universal truths to understand here, including the realization that ride quality is so highly subjective that you almost can't accept anyone's opinion because everyone is different.

You should look at spring rate for ride quality. Coilovers typically lend themselves to more performance, which means stiffer spring rates, which means less plush and more firm/stiff. Some of the more expensive coilover systems are better at making stiffer spring rates more livable, where inexpensive coilovers aren't as good.

A good suspension will have a shock/strut that is properly valved to the spring rate you choose. This is where more expensive suspension systems get it right and cheaper suspension systems can be lacking. It gets problematic when people have shocks that are under/overdamped for the spring they have.

The next issue is ride height, and mainly lack of suspension stroke. Most people with coilovers want to lower their car quite a bit to get the stance (tire to fender gap) right and, at the same time, increase handling performance. What this ultimately does is cause problems with a stiff, harsh, or crashy feeling. To get the ride height low enough, many coilover systems do this by reducing the stroke of the suspension causing the suspension to ride on very little suspension travel.

Ultimately it all comes down to your budget, and that will define your options and then ideally you would choose the least amount of spring rate and adjust the height of the coilovers up closer to factory height instead of slammed.

[TboneS54]

Twin tube dampers have traditionally been a bit more comfortable, esp at lower speeds, than monotubes like bilstein (mcs, ohlins, jrz). Twin tub would be like Koni (TCK).

I think the blow off valve on ohlins helps keep the car more stable, but probably improves comfort as well. My MCS are very comfortable with similar rates - 343lb/628lb (on e46).

I think Ohlins nailed the spring rates for E9x. I wouldn't hesitate in getting them, but make sure to pair them withs tockmounts if comfort is your priority.

[Bimmer Barney]

Originally Posted by a5m

Yea, maybe coilovers are the best option. Considering these in case they're worth spending more for if they'll deliver better comfort in all street driving scenarios vs Bilstein/spring combo.

Ohlins R&T - read these suck over bumps at slow city speeds

AST 5100 - can't find much on these for street use, but seem might be too stiff?

Sachs Coilovers - probably least known offering. Reached out to them and they're now discontinued, so maybe not good for future serviceability. Richbot ran these (just rears?) and seemed to like em

TC Kline SA - seem to be loved by everybody but unlike the above, require camber plates. DA is apparently noisy by design due to the shim stack according to TC who I spoke to today

Thoughts? Looking for the ultimate street comfort setupnfor a daily E90 on 80k OEM suspension.

My Ohlins R&T is very comfortable. I daily drive my M and do 1-2 track days per year.

[Redd]

I'm a huge supporter of Ohlins R/T. Used them on my M3 for 60+k kms, zero issues. What I've noticed about Ohlins vs driving my friends' KW and EDC equipped cars:

1. Ohlins is way less harsh than KW V3. KW just feels over sprung.

2. Ohlins has better body control than EDC Comfort and is less harsh than EDC Normal/Sport. Ohlins has a firmer ride but less harsh than EDC in general.

3. In general I find Ohlins damper has pretty long travel which is great for comfort.

4. Ohlins DFV Dual Flow Valve is not just marketing talk. It really works! DFV takes out a lot of the harshness of daily driving. Potholes feel like they have round edges rather than square/sharp edges. Rough roads feel less rough. I run camber plates and full sphericals on my daily car with Ohlins and my friends have commented it's less harsh than their stock chassis with KW V3.

5. I used to run 12 clicks for street daily use and it was plenty comfortable.

[a5m]

Thanks everyone for the detailed responses. Can't say how much I appreciate it. I'm basically set on Ohlins R&T now. Seems like they have the tech and all the right features for what I'm looking for - the most comfortable street setup for a daily driver.

M3SQRD I'm very surprised to hear your negative experience with TCK. Probably the first I've read. I got the sense you were talking in the context of track performance? I'm not looking to ever track my car so need ultimate street comfort. Perhaps they're not that bad in that regard?

I had come across a few posts where people said Ohlins were bad at slow city speeds on poor roads. I'm now thinking maybe those people had them set stiff/dumped/incorrectly and were speaking out of line? Because I'm finding the opposite comments for the same driving situations too. But as MineralWhiteF80 said, one man's comfy can be another's harsh.

Anyway looking for deals on Ohlins. Their design, features and specs seem perfect. The maintenance interval is the only drawback, but might be overblown. Somebody mentioned buying from FCP Euro and utilizing their lifetime warranty to exchange when due for a rebuild. Not sure if that's true or if anyone's tried it.

[Redd]

I suspect those who complain about Ohlins reliability probably ran it very stiff all the time. I had my set for 6 yrs 60+k kms zero leaks. I sold it to a friend who's still using it in his M3 with no issues.

[a5m]

That's reassuring, thanks Redd. Must be the reason why. Appreciate your earlier post too outlining all the benefits of Ohlins.

I realized long travel was needed for comfort so had decided on Bilstein B6 after doing a lot of research, but felt they'd get me 80%-90% of the way there but still leave some comfort to be desired. Shouldn't be the case with Ohlins based on what you all and others have reported.

Had considered KW's. XT ST-A too. Someone just posted V3's in the Classifieds. They seem more track oriented so would be too stiff and uncomfortable for street driving. Apparently the Club Sports are an exception and everyone raves about those, but maybe still Ohlins would be better. Definitely price wise.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by a5m

M3SQRD I'm very surprised to hear your negative experience with TCK. Probably the first I've read. I got the sense you were talking in the context of track performance? I'm not looking to ever track my car so need ultimate street comfort. Perhaps they're not that bad in that regard?

100% street use on my wife’s e92 M3. It literally felt like you’re driving a car with blown dampers. Zero control of weight transfer in normal braking and cornering. It took forever for the car to finally take a set. It wasn’t the spring rates because I was running Moton SS on my other e92 M3 with similar F/R 350/620 lbf/in rates. Additionally, it had poor control of wheel motion and impacts. It felt like you were on a boat in choppy water which is what made my wife nauseous/car sick. Even with rebound maxed out, there was no improvement. I’m the first? I find that very surprising.

I had used Koni yellows on my ‘00 s2000 when they were first released and they did a very good job of controlling/minimizing body motions and wheel disturbances. Their performance on the s2000 was the main reason why I decided to try the TCK SA setup on the e92 M3. There weren’t many street suspension options in 2011-2012 for < $4k which also factored into my decision. Ohlins R&T weren’t released yet and it would have been my first choice for an e9x M3 street setup based on my experience with the R&T on my R56 Mini CS. Based on my personal experience, I would not recommend the TCK SA or DA setups for the street or track.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by a5m

That's reassuring, thanks Redd. Must be the reason why. Appreciate your earlier post too outlining all the benefits of Ohlins.

I realized long travel was needed for comfort so had decided on Bilstein B6 after doing a lot of research, but felt they'd get me 80%-90% of the way there but still leave some comfort to be desired. Shouldn't be the case with Ohlins based on what you all and others have reported.

Had considered KW's. XT ST-A too. Someone just posted V3's in the Classifieds. They seem more track oriented so would be too stiff and uncomfortable for street driving. Apparently the Club Sports are an exception and everyone raves about those, but maybe still Ohlins would be better. Definitely price wise.

The kw v3 is their twin-tube street damper with relatively soft spring rates. The kw clubsports (cs) 2-way and 3-way dampers are their track dampers. CS comes with higher spring rates. V3s come with a lifetime warranty. CS come with a limited 1 or 2 year warranty. V3s can be converted to constant-ID springs (same type of springs used on the cs) so you could run lower spring rates for improved street ride quality.

[a5m]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

100% street use on my wife’s e92 M3. It literally felt like you’re driving a car with blown dampers. Zero control of weight transfer in normal braking and cornering. It took forever for the car to finally take a set. It wasn’t the spring rates because I was running Moton SS on my other e92 M3 with similar F/R 350/620 lbf/in rates. Additionally, it had poor control of wheel motion and impacts. It felt like you were on a boat in choppy water which is what made my wife nauseous/car sick. Even with rebound maxed out, there was no improvement. I’m the first? I find that very surprising.

I had used Koni yellows on my ‘00 s2000 when they were first released and they did a very good job of controlling/minimizing body motions and wheel disturbances. Their performance on the s2000 was the main reason why I decided to try the TCK SA setup on the e92 M3. There weren’t many street suspension options in 2011-2012 for < $4k which also factored into my decision. Ohlins R&T weren’t released yet and it would have been my first choice for an e9x M3 street setup based on my experience with the R&T on my R56 Mini CS. Based on my personal experience, I would not recommend the TCK SA or DA setups for the street or track.

Maybe I haven't dug enough. But yea I think I understand what you're describing. The boat analogy painted the right picture. So do you think stiffer springs would have improved things? Like a 400 lbf/in front?

Another interesting thing is during my emails with TC he claimed "Swift copied our springs, so they are the same". Which I thought was...yea. Wasn't sure what to make of that so I probed further and he just said "Nothing to tell. We both offer high tensile springs." So there's that...

Ohlins is looking real good right now, although I'm getting thoughts of saving a ton going with a B6+Eibach combo. But if it doesn't deliver 100% then 'penny wise pound foolish'.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by a5m

Maybe I haven't dug enough. But yea I think I understand what you're describing. The boat analogy painted the right picture. So do you think stiffer springs would have improved things? Like a 400 lbf/in front?

Another interesting thing is during my emails with TC he claimed "Swift copied our springs, so they are the same". Which I thought was...yea. Wasn't sure what to make of that so I probed further and he just said "Nothing to tell. We both offer high tensile springs." So there's that...

Ohlins is looking real good right now, although I'm getting thoughts of saving a ton going with a B6+Eibach combo. But if it doesn't deliver 100% then 'penny wise pound foolish'.

Higher spring rates would have made it worse, not better. A damper absorbs energy to damp out motion. Energy in a spring is 1/2*k*disp^2 - increasing k, means you’ve increased the energy so you need more damping to control a stiffer spring (more energy needs to be removed per oscillation). Critical damping, C, which is the least amount of damping required to prevent oscillatory motion/vibration (quickest return to starting equilibrium position without overshooting), is 2*sqrt(k*m) where k is the spring rate and m is sprung mass (corner weight/mass). The sprung mass remains the same if you change the spring rate so the ratio of critical damping is

Cstiff / Csoft = 2*sqrt(kstiff*m) / (2*sqrt(ksoft*m)) = sqrt(kstiff / ksoft)

which shows damping needs to be increased if the spring rate is increased. Going from a 300 lbf/in spring to a 400 lbf/in spring means you’d want to increase damping by sqrt(400/300) = 1.15 - 15% increase in damping for a 33% increase in spring rate. So the TCK SA with F/R 400/700 lbf/in spring rates would have been less controlled/damped than with the F/R 300/600 lbf/in spring rates.

This is the first time I’ve heard that Swift copied (stole) TCK’s spring design. If there’s nothing to tell then why did he tell you? LOL

I don’t recall you mentioning that your car has edc so you’re talking about the conventional Bilstein B6 or B8 dampers, not the Damptronic versions, correct? I’ve learned the lesson of buying the best damper/suspension you can afford the first time ends up being the considerably less expensive option than having to buy a second damper/suspension because the first one just didn’t perform the way you’d expected it to perform. The price difference between the Bilstein B8 dampers + lowering springs (excluding the MSS HAS) and the Ohlins R&T is ~2.5-3x. The R&Ts ARE worth the price difference. This is one of the cases where you have to experience it for yourself before you can fully appreciate what other forum members are telling you.

[a5m]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Higher spring rates would have made it worse, not better. A damper absorbs energy to damp out motion. Energy in a spring is 1/2*k*disp^2 - increasing k, means you’ve increased the energy so you need more damping to control a stiffer spring (more energy needs to be removed per oscillation). Critical damping, C, which is the least amount of damping required to prevent oscillatory motion/vibration (quickest return to starting equilibrium position without overshooting), is 2*sqrt(k*m) where k is the spring rate and m is sprung mass (corner weight/mass). The sprung mass remains the same if you change the spring rate so the ratio of critical damping is

Cstiff / Csoft = 2*sqrt(kstiff*m) / (2*sqrt(ksoft*m)) = sqrt(kstiff / ksoft)

which shows damping needs to be increased if the spring rate is increased. Going from a 300 lbf/in spring to a 400 lbf/in spring means you’d want to increase damping by sqrt(400/300) = 1.15 - 15% increase in damping for a 33% increase in spring rate. So the TCK SA with F/R 400/700 lbf/in spring rates would have been less controlled/damped than with the F/R 300/600 lbf/in spring rates.

This is the first time I’ve heard that Swift copied (stole) TCK’s spring design. If there’s nothing to tell then why did he tell you? LOL

I don’t recall you mentioning that your car has edc so you’re talking about the conventional Bilstein B6 or B8 dampers, not the Damptronic versions, correct? I’ve learned the lesson of buying the best damper/suspension you can afford the first time ends up being the considerably less expensive option than having [...]

Ok I understood all that perfectly...

Lol thanks but most of that went over my head but the gist I got is the suspension just wasn't designed well and couldn't be improved. Maybe their DA is different/better.

Correct, non-EDC car. B8 have shorter travel so not ideal for comfort vs B6. As much as I want to save the money for Ohlins I agree with you that I rather do it right the first time. Wish I could ride in both and decide. Maybe I'll get lucky at an upcoming meet or something. Anyone in Chicago with either of these setups feeling generous?

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by a5m

Ok I understood all that perfectly...

Lol thanks but most of that went over my head but the gist I got is the suspension just wasn't designed well and couldn't be improved. Maybe their DA is different/better.

Correct, non-EDC car. B8 have shorter travel so not ideal for comfort vs B6. As much as I want to save the money for Ohlins I agree with you that I rather do it right the first time. Wish I could ride in both and decide. Maybe I'll get lucky at an upcoming meet or something. Anyone in Chicago with either of these setups feeling generous?

Increasing spring stiffness means damping also must be increased. TCK DA damper is similar to the SA with the only difference being the DA adds an additional adjuster that controls compression damping. SA = adjust rebound only, DA = independently adjust rebound and compression damping. Having additional control of how the damper’s setup doesn’t mean it has more damping. Then there’s the problem of the annoying noise the DA damper makes and there’s no way to mitigate it.

The B8 is designed to work with lowering springs. The B8 damper body was reduced by ~0.6” from the spring seat and where it attaches to the knuckle/control arm. Monotube dampers have a nitrogen gas charge to prevent cavitation. The B8, and B6, have an internal pressure reservoir with a floating piston to separate the gas and hydraulic fluid. This internal gas charge creates a gas lifting force which acts like a compressive preloaded spring - the compression load on the piston rod has to exceed this gas lifting force before the piston rod starts to move. This gas lifting force also lifts the car up (i.e., raises ride height) so the damper body is shortened to account for the increased ride height due to the gas lifting force. The B8 shortened damper body has no effect on ride comfort/quality compared to B6 ride comfort/quality. The B6 and B8 front struts use an inverted strut design with an internal bump stop. Bilstein uses a fairly high nitrogen gas pressure which, to some people, makes the damper feel harsh over sections of bumpy roads. If you were local, I’d let you ride in/drive my e92 M3s with JRZ RS1 and MCS 2WR with 400/700 lbf/in and 600/900 lbf/in, respectively, spring rates. You’ll be amazed by the ride quality and bump absorption ability of the MCS 2WR setup with the high spring rates. However, the JRZ RS1 setup is closer to a R&T setup and after a ride you’d be sold on the R&Ts!

[Remonster]

I have my Ohlins Road & Track set to 10 clicks (right in the middle) front and rear and they are extremely comfortable and smooth. When you're driving slowly, you do notice the increased spring rates because the body follows bumps in the road more but the damping is fantastic. Once you get up to like 40mph and above, it's far smoother than anything else I have driven on including the original EDC setup when it was new. It's a really great setup, several other M3 owners have bought the same kit after trying mine.

When I first installed the Ohlins, I wasn't completely satisfied but I eventually found replacing front lower control arms made a huge difference in ride comfort. My bushings all looked good with no tears but replacing those four up front made a world of difference. I also like my tires set around 32psi cold more than the door sticker's recommendation of 35psi but that will vary depending on what tires you use and their sidewall stiffness.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by Remonster

I have my Ohlins Road & Track set to 10 clicks (right in the middle) front and rear and they are extremely comfortable and smooth. When you're driving slowly, you do notice the increased spring rates because the body follows bumps in the road more but the damping is fantastic. Once you get up to like 40mph and above, it's far smoother than anything else I have driven on including the original EDC setup when it was new. It's a really great setup, several other M3 owners have bought the same kit after trying mine.

When I first installed the Ohlins, I wasn't completely satisfied but I eventually found replacing front lower control arms made a huge difference in ride comfort. My bushings all looked good with no tears but replacing those four up front made a world of difference. I also like my tires set around 32psi cold more than the door sticker's recommendation of 35psi but that will vary depending on what tires you use and their sidewall stiffness.

I bet you could run the R&T’s with 2-3 fewer clicks (valving more open) and the ride quality will improve yet the street body control and street cornering performance won’t be affected by much. I haven’t seen R&T e9x M3 damper dyno plots but on the f8x 10 clicks puts you in the range of being critically damped. I’d try 8 clicks from fully open (min damping setting) and see how it feels. A good initial track setting would be front 10-12 clicks (from fully open) and rear 11-13 clicks (from fully open). Increase damping if it feels like it’s taking too long for weight to transfer but make sure the car isn’t packing/jacking down (suspension is overdamped and it hasn’t returned to its equilibrium position before hitting another bump) mid corner then take out 1-2 clicks (less damping).

[a5m]

Thanks M3SQRD for the thorough response and offer to drive your MCS equipped E92. That's the dream suspension. Looked at JRZ too but hard for me personally to justify the cost, although I am starting to really consider it given the headache I'm getting researching suspension...

From everything I've read and the Bilstein rep I spoke with, the body length is the same between the B6 and B8 i.e. spring perch is at the same height. Are we saying the same thing? Their fully extended length is what's different. Fully compressed they're also the same height, which makes me think the B6 uses a shorter internal bump stop? This is for the front, but same story for the rear.

I don't get the love for TCK. I also factor in my 'feel' for a company and, feel like TC would kinda leave me on my own if I wasn't satisfied with their product. Really tempted to pick up the used set for sale currently but think I'll hold off for now. Maybe from this whole suspension topic and revisit it later.

Remonster Thanks for chiming in! The Ohlins sound amazing and that much more desirable. Surprised the lower control arms made that big of a difference. I guess I should look into that too. So even though the bushings seemed okay they must've gotten fatigued over the years. Hopefully these aren't too pricey as I think it'll be worth replacing those to have the best outcome at improving ride comfort.

Perhaps the negatives I read about Ohlins were just that, people being too hasty, or a number of other factors like the arms or tire pressures. I've experienced the latter playing a significant role. May back mine off a bit. They're DWS 06's, but really really old. Hoping to upgrade wheels so haven't put the money into replacing them, but I'm sure they're not helping things as they sit.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by a5m

Thanks M3SQRD for the thorough response and offer to drive your MCS equipped E92. That's the dream suspension. Looked at JRZ too but hard for me personally to justify the cost, although I am starting to really consider it given the headache I'm getting researching suspension...

From everything I've read and the Bilstein rep I spoke with, the body length is the same between the B6 and B8 i.e. spring perch is at the same height. Are we saying the same thing? Their fully extended length is what's different. Fully compressed they're also the same height, which makes me think the B6 uses a shorter internal bump stop? This is for the front, but same story for the rear.

I don't get the love for TCK. I also factor in my 'feel' for a company and, feel like TC would kinda leave me on my own if I wasn't satisfied with their product. Really tempted to pick up the used set for sale currently but think I'll hold off for now. Maybe from this whole suspension topic and revisit it later.

Remonster Thanks for chiming in! The Ohlins sound amazing and that much more desirable. Surprised the lower control arms made that big of a difference. I guess I should look into that too. So even though the bushings seemed okay they must've gotten fatigued over the years. Hopefully these aren't too pricey as I think it'll be worth replacing those to have the best outcome at improving ride comfort.

Perhaps the negatives I read about Ohlins were just that, people being too hasty, or a number of other factors like the arms or tire pressures. I've experienced the latter playing a significant role. May back mine off a bit. They're DWS 06's, but really really old. Hoping to upgrade wheels so haven't put the money into replacing them, but I'm sure they're not helping things as they sit.

The MCS 2/3/4WR remote reservoir dampers are the best dampers I’ve used. Over the past 30+ years, I’ve tried MCS, Moton, Ohlins, Nitron, JRZ, TCK, KW, Koni, Tein, and Bilstein dampers. The MCS range of independent damping adjustment, adjustable reservoir nitrogen pressure (100-250 psi), range of spring rate, suspension travel, high-speed blow-off valve, thermal stability, smoothness, level of tech support/service are all second to none. Moton, Nitron, Ohlins TTX and Intrax are all phenomenal dampers but I just prefer MCS. I’m currently running three 2WR setups, one JRZ setup (it was supposed to be one of the very first MCS 1WNR setups ) and one Ohlins R&T setup. I’ve installed a 2WR (100 psi reservoir pressure) with F/R 500/800 lbf/in street setup on my wife’s m240ix and it’s amazing how compliant and controlled the car is on bumpy roads. You can feel the spring rate but it’s never harsh or abusive (not tiring or feeling like you were in a fight). Perhaps it’ll be best if we left the MCS e92 M3 in the garage and only drive the JRZ e92 M3 - point was to convince you to get the Ohlins R&T, not complicate things with the MCS setup

So the Bilstein B8 version is identical to the B6 except for its droop travel (the maximum downward travel of the wheel allowed by the damper) which is less. Bilstein shortened the B8 damper by shortening the piston rod (see link below). The internal bump stop of the B6 and B8 are not changed

https://www.bilstein-shocks.co.uk/bl...nd-bilstein-b8

However, the Evolve/Bilstein B6 damper body has been shortened to address the gas pressure lifting force. The spring seat and sway bar mount are lowered relative to the larger diameter section of the damper where it mounts to the knuckle (see pic below, Bilstein B6 is on the right). Evolve did this so that you’d get the correct lowered ride height from the lowering springs; i.e., the measured lowered ride height is in agreement with the value quoted by the lowering spring manufacturer.

[TboneS54]

I have b8 now with swift springs, going to ohlins R&T soon. When I went from bilstein b6 on e46 m3 to MCS 1wnr, it was an incredible change. Just changing from yellow konis (twin tube) to bilstein (monotube) was a good change, but MCS are fantastic. Ohlins are very close from what I can tell.

[a5m]

M3SQRD You bring up an interesting point regarding droop travel. The other half of suspension travel. Now I'm thinking pairing Eibachs with B8's might be the better choice. Having watched a B6/H&R install video a spring compressor wasn't even required to secure the top hat. Since the Eibach's are spec'd 0.2" taller I'd guess the B6 would be fine and retain the benefit of increased suspension travel vs B8 while not compromising droop travel. lutfy shared some detailed positive feedback of his experience and experimenting with the B6 and Eibach combo and even today is satisfied with it. The Evolve setup seems intriguing, but quite in early stages. Sreten (M539 Restorations) fitted them to his E92 I believe.

Haha wish I was closer to take a ride. Sounds like it'd be a life changing experience. Probably a good thing because I'd be budgeting a setup 2.5x the cost of Ohlins!

TboneS54 Thanks. Yea I have a feeling this is one of those do it right the first time situations where I should just skip to the better Ohlins setup. Trying to get a deal on some, let's see how things play out.

[M3SQRD]

a5m

The B6 and B8 are roughly 3/4” difference in droop. You’re right, Bilstein did this so spring preload is required to install a lowering spring on the B8 vs. the B6. I’d be surprised if B8 and B6 use bump stops with different lengths and spring/bump rates. I’m certain the design of the gas chamber and floating seal/piston (separating piston for gas and fluid) because it would invalidate all of their design verification and qualification testing. Reducing droop travel only reduces development costs of the B8 because B6 data are still valid. It’s very rarely that full droop travel is reached (unless you’re on the Nürburgring or similar track!). There’s no way Bilstein would develop two clean sheet damper designs with the same performance parameters and only one design difference - droop travel - if they had to put both through independent verification and validation of the designs as well as not being able to spread development costs over both designs. Prices of B8 and B6 dampers would be considerably higher if they couldn’t share costs. I think you’re overthinking the use of B8 vs. B6 and there’s really only one major decision that you need to make - do I or don’t I lower the stock ride height? Difference in ride quality and damping characteristics are practically speaking identical.

Now the decision between R&T and B8/B6 is a bit more complicated and costly. I have used the R&T on my r56 Mini Cooper S with 300/300 lbf/in spring rates (on a short wheelbase!) for almost 14 years now but I’ve never owned/used the B8/B6. I’ve driven cars with B16 on street and track. IMO, Bilstein uses a gas pressure that’s too high and it makes the dampers skip over, rather than absorb, small bumps. A common complaint I’ve heard is Bilstein’s are harsh and it’s due to the high gas pressure. In a monotube damper, gas pressure is required so that they work properly but how much is too much comes down to suspension tuning philosophy. The R&T also has a gas charge but it’s lower than Bilstein’s. The adjustable rebound and compression damping (single adjuster varies rebound and compression) on the R&T is a major advantage over the B6/B8 because you can set things up more to your liking and with a few clicks of adjustment you can go from a compliant street setup to a firmer more responsive track setup. My r56 is used year round so in the summer I set the adjuster eight clicks higher than during the winter and the change in ride quality is significant. Yes, you definitely want to do it right the first time! I’m certain the R&T setup, in your case the street version with softer rates, will exceed your expectations.