Whos running Mobil 1 0w-40?

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by Billj747

+1

0W40 will be fine.

I like your confidence but in the end its still a gamble - it always makes me nervous when I see recommendations to other owners that are at best an educated guess.

[Billj747]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

I like your confidence but in the end its still a gamble - it always makes me nervous when I see recommendations to other owners that are at best an educated guess.

With the poor UOI's with high lead content of high mileage S65s that use 10/60, and the recent theme of lowered lead in cars that switch to 0W40, would mean that continuing to run 10W60 is just as big of a gamble.


0.02

[G80indy]

Extended OCIs are the biggest gamble of all
Especially in a race engine like this

[emac08]

Well, I guess from seeing your guys reports and from reading other threads, I will be switching over to Mobil1 0W-40. I have an 08 e90 m3 so warranty isn't an issue.... Plus I live in SoCal and never track the car.

Thanks for all the input guys!

[Ant Man]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Its probably something to do with the exclusive contracts that Castrol have/had with BMW as being the OEM fill oil and the only recommended oil.
Maybe that contract has expired for the USA market while ours hasn't yet.

I spoke to an Alpina chap (at Goodwood FOS) who was ex BMW M. He said the engines would run quite happily on 0W-40 and indeed performance would be increased.

[e92zero]

Just switched from Castrol to M1 0-40. Oil pressure cruising at 70 mph is the same @ ~77psi. Idling oil pressure dropped from ~40psi to ~36psi. Not sure if that's a concern though. Engine definitely feels more responsive.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by Ant Man

I spoke to an Alpina chap (at Goodwood FOS) who was ex BMW M. He said the engines would run quite happily on 0W-40 and indeed performance would be increased.

Fair enough...though there are still plenty of noteworthy people in the know who advise sticking with the OEM recommended oil (including Mobil themselves)
Personally I don't see the gain as worth it...its not to going to warm up any quicker and its going to give you less protection under high load. On the plus side you might make a couple of BHP.

[W///]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Fair enough...though there are still plenty of noteworthy people in the know who advise sticking with the OEM recommended oil (including Mobil themselves)
Personally I don't see the gain as worth it...its not to going to warm up any quicker and its going to give you less protection under high load. On the plus side you might make a couple of BHP.

That's where you are wrong unfortunately. It absolutely warms up quicker, whether in cold or warm weather. This part is absolutely not up for debate and is a fact (one of the few things that's not speculation)

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by W///

That's where you are wrong unfortunately. It absolutely warms up quicker, whether in cold or warm weather. This part is absolutely not up for debate and is a fact (one of the few things that's not speculation)

I would be interested to know the physics behind that. All else being equal the engine should put the same amount of energy into each oil so both ought to heat up at a similar rate. If anything for the engine to make a few extra BHP with the mobil 1 it would mean that the engine would put less work (and thus less heat) into moving the mobil oil around.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

I would be interested to know the physics behind that. All else being equal the engine should put the same amount of energy into each oil so both ought to heat up at a similar rate. If anything for the engine to make a few extra BHP with the mobil 1 it would mean that the engine would put less work (and thus less heat) into moving the mobil oil around.

Unfortunately it isn't a simple answer. This was discussed on BITOG and even the expert guys there (Gary Allan, Doug Hillary) have said it's a complex issue:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...pics/1623871/1


In the end you have two oils (M1 0w40, TWS) with very different chemistries so it's hard to directly compare them. Also, you need to be clear about what specifically is heating up faster: the oil, the engine, the coolant, or all three.

[W///]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

I would be interested to know the physics behind that. All else being equal the engine should put the same amount of energy into each oil so both ought to heat up at a similar rate. If anything for the engine to make a few extra BHP with the mobil 1 it would mean that the engine would put less work (and thus less heat) into moving the mobil oil around.

I've been running this oil for over half a year now. Before that, I had 10W60 for 1 year. To 1/3 temp mark, I'd say the 0W40 warms up prob 20-30% quicker. Then it takes as long to warm up to around the 200-210F mark as 10W60. But if you really start pushing it towards 230F mark, it comes back down to normal temp quicker than 10W60 did too.

Engineer to engineer, you'll just have to take my word for it. I don't step in when I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to bearing clearance ect, but this topic on oil temp is from real world experience. Plenty of people have seen the same thing.

[Petros]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Fair enough...though there are still plenty of noteworthy people in the know who advise sticking with the OEM recommended oil (including Mobil themselves)
Personally I don't see the gain as worth it...its not to going to warm up any quicker and its going to give you less protection under high load. On the plus side you might make a couple of BHP.

Is there any proof whatsoever for the very inflammatory bolded statement????? Put up or shut up.

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

I would be interested to know the physics behind that. All else being equal the engine should put the same amount of energy into each oil so both ought to heat up at a similar rate. If anything for the engine to make a few extra BHP with the mobil 1 it would mean that the engine would put less work (and thus less heat) into moving the mobil oil around.

If I would hazard a guess, how about flow? Thinner oil will flow better and cause more even heat distribution throughout the engine. Thicker oil will not flow as much, causing more heat to accumulate in tight parts of the engine like bearings or cam lobes, while the bulk of the oil in the sump remains a bit cooler.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by dparm

In the end you have two oils (M1 0w40, TWS) with very different chemistries so it's hard to directly compare them. Also, you need to be clear about what specifically is heating up faster: the oil, the engine, the coolant, or all three.

Originally Posted by W///

Engineer to engineer, you'll just have to take my word for it. I don't step in when I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to bearing clearance ect, but this topic on oil temp is from real world experience. Plenty of people have seen the same thing.

OK it just seems to me that its a fairly closed system, you are converting fuel into HP, losing some to heat and getting the remaining HP out as drive to the rear wheels. If the Mobil is giving you more HP out it means its losing less to heating up the system (including the oil). It would seem odd that you could have it both ways.
Anyway it's just a side issue, its the sort of thing I find interesting.

Originally Posted by Petros

Put up or shut up.

Dude really? We are all enthusiasts here just discussing stuff ...no need to be a dick about it.

[W///]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

OK it just seems to me that its a fairly closed system, you are converting fuel into HP, losing some to heat and getting the remaining HP out as drive to the rear wheels. If the Mobil is giving you more HP out it means its losing less to heating up the system (including the oil). It would seem odd that you could have it both ways.
Anyway it's just a side issue, its the sort of thing I find interesting.



Dude really? We are all enthusiasts here just discussing stuff ...no need to be a dick about it.

It's not as easy as energy in = energy out though. There's so many more things at play like friction (keep in mind engine revs more freely too). The fact that it warms up quicker was one of the main reasons I switched to 0W40 in the first place.

But let's not make this more complicated than it needs to be. Yes, 0W40 warms up quicker

[Wendall]

Ive been running Rotella T6 for the past year. I will switch up to M1 0W40 next change.

Oil temps warm up a tiny bit faster and the car definitely feels less sluggish. I like it. I will blackstone my next oil change and adjust appropriately.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by W///

Yes, 0W40 warms up quicker

Fair enough mate...though I would still be interested to know where the extra energy is coming from that enables the Mobil to heat up quicker.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Fair enough mate...though I would still be interested to know where the extra energy is coming from that enables the Mobil to heat up quicker.

You have an oil cooler that drastically alters the entire process.

As I linked above on BITOG, there is no simple answer. It is a combination of many small things.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by dparm

You have an oil cooler that drastically alters the entire process.

Not really...the oil cooler is thermostatically locked out until the oil reaches operating temp.

Originally Posted by dparm

As I linked above on BITOG, there is no simple answer. It is a combination of many small things.

I have read the thread and it doesn't give much help.
I think when owners start saying, it definitely warms up quicker, the car feels less sluggish/is performing better, then its just a case of wishful thinking.
You certainly can't have noticeably more performance and a noticeably quicker warm up - the physics simply doesn't support it IIUC.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

I have read the thread and it doesn't give much help.
I think when owners start saying, it definitely warms up quicker, the car feels less sluggish/is performing better, then its just a case of wishful thinking.
You certainly can't have noticeably more performance and a noticeably quicker warm up - the physics simply doesn't support it IIUC.

Yes, the car warms up faster... it also revs faster on 0w40.

Does it make more power? I don't know but it does change the way the car runs. Think about the drag on the engine from a heavy weight oil, now that weight is removed. An analogy would be like installing a light weight flywheel for a manual transmission. The car doesn't make any more power than before but the engine revs more easily and faster because it is spinning less weight.

[e92zero]

Might not be relevant but porridge takes much longer to heat up than just plain water. That could explain why the thinner oil heat up quicker perhaps? There is also the oil pump working easier with the 0-40 vs the tws which free up some parasite lost on the engine like under drive pulleys. It's not wishful thinking, I daily drive my car and can definitely see the oil temp needle start moving earlier on my same route to work in the morning and also on the route going home after work.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by e92zero

Might not be relevant but porridge takes much longer to heat up than just plain water. That could explain why the thinner oil heat up quicker perhaps? There is also the oil pump working easier with the 0-40 vs the tws which free up some parasite lost on the engine like under drive pulleys. It's not wishful thinking, I daily drive my car and can definitely see the oil temp needle start moving earlier on my same route to work in the morning and also on the route going home after work.

Here we are dealing with two similar oils...unless it takes significantly more heat to raise the temp of the 10W60 from ambient to 210F (very unlikely) than the Mobil 1 then the porridge water analogy doesn't really help.
To me its simple conservation of energy. You have a fixed amount of energy provided by the fuel. Some goes to heat up (amongst other things) the oil and some goes to accelerate the car. You can't have more heat going to heating up the oil AND more energy going to accelerate the car.
If the oil is heating up quicker then the car is accelerating slower.
Far more likely is the other way around (but likely not noticeable in a blind test).

[e92zero]

I know the theory of conservation of energy in an enclosed system. However, like the other poster has pointed out, an engine is much more complicated and I do not know all of it. I am just reporting what I am seeing. I was skeptical about it all also before hand. But the oil temp needle starts moving a good mile or so earlier than before on the same route. Oil pressure also runs lower so does that mean the oil is flowing through the system easier?