Driver died at buttonwillow today.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

Hans will not help in a side impact. You need a seat with ears for that.

We also had a fatality at my local track last year. Fully prepped GT3 with cage, harness and Hans. He hit the wall sideways.

Yep will need the halos to protect you. Anyone believe in angels??

[Kong Sheng Han]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

Yep will need the halos to protect you. Anyone believe in angels??

Fuck this. Someone needs to make an add-on halo for OE seats. I don't care if it's not as effective as real halo seats, as long as they make me feel better and safer.

[CalSE]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

the other part to the story is still unknown. i'm still assuming that he broke due to neck injuries sustained with a harness and no hans.

Sadly but the facts may never be known and/or divulged even for the betterment of our motorsports community. One can only speculate like all the other past track fatalities I have heard about.

[redpriest]

I have to wonder if the weight of the helmet also contributes to the danger; a lighter carbon fiber helmet means your head isn't going to have as much momentum behind it too.

Coworker and friend of mine picked up a Simpson Hybrid neck restraint that's compatible with 3-point belt immediately as a response to this, I might do the same thing.

[CalSE]

Originally Posted by Kong Sheng Han

Fuck this. Someone needs to make an add-on halo for OE seats. I don't care if it's not as effective as real halo seats, as long as they make me feel better and safer.

It is my opinion that a person has a much greater chance of survivability due frontal or side impact if OEM seat restraints are used versus rigid aftermarket harnesses without the use of halo reatraints and HNR device.

The OEM restaint allows the body to move and/or pivot with the head versus the body fixed and heavy helmet head whiplashing or separating from the torso.

[Saandiaago]

Condolences to this man's family. Very sad for his boys. I hate to see stuff like this. I wonder what the stats are regarding fatalities per thousands of track miles for non professional drivers. Definitely makes me think twice about getting out there. Or at least staying away from the edge and within my comfort zone. Plenty of idiots who can kill you on public roads so the key is to simply be careful anytime you're driving.

[CalSE]

Originally Posted by redpriest

I have to wonder if the weight of the helmet also contributes to the danger; a lighter carbon fiber helmet means your head isn't going to have as much momentum behind it too.

Coworker and friend of mine picked up a Simpson Hybrid neck restraint that's compatible with 3-point belt immediately as a response to this, I might do the same thing.

I replaced my old helmet with a lighter CF helmet because of precisely what you are thinking. F=MA so reducing M helps however little it may be.

Are you also planning on a halo race seat for side impact restraint?

[redpriest]

Originally Posted by CalSE

I replaced my old helmet with a lighter CF helmet because of precisely what you are thinking. F=MA so reducing M helps however little it may be.

Are you also planning on a halo race seat for side impact restraint?

The only thing I'm concerned about with replacing the OEM seat is how it integrates with the rest of the car's safety systems - air bags, etc. I don't want to submarine out of a halo seat because I'm only using a 3-point OEM safety belt, for example. Definitely thinking about it though.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by redpriest

The only thing I'm concerned about with replacing the OEM seat is how it integrates with the rest of the car's safety systems - air bags, etc. I don't want to submarine out of a halo seat because I'm only using a 3-point OEM safety belt, for example. Definitely thinking about it though.

If you are using oem 3-pt, in an accident, the female receptacles explode and tighten the lap belt by another 2 inches, the shoulder belt will give a bit which allows your torso to fold forward, therefore eliminating any submarining. That's also how the 4-pt schroth quick fit PRO works.

I used to use the "slide back, tension the stock belts, then move seat forward" so the belt would stay locked. I started getting worried that if it was locked when in resting position, what would happen in an accident. So I got the Schroth.

[Kong Sheng Han]

Originally Posted by CalSE

It is my opinion that a person has a much greater chance of survivability due frontal or side impact if OEM seat restraints are used versus rigid aftermarket harnesses without the use of halo reatraints and HNR device.

The OEM restaint allows the body to move and/or pivot with the head versus the body fixed and heavy helmet head whiplashing or separating from the torso.

I have HANS and Schroth 4-point harnesses.

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

That's also how the 4-pt schroth quick fit PRO works.

So in a crash, it will allow my torso to move forward a little? How?

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by Kong Sheng Han

I have HANS and Schroth 4-point harnesses.



So in a crash, it will allow my torso to move forward a little? How?

if you have the pro version, look at the straps behind the seat. there is a module on there that will extend your inside shoulder strap giving some slack there. That way, it will act like a oem in that the inner torso will pitch forward so that you will not submarine.

[redpriest]

Aren't 4-point harnesses considered extremely dangerous? Over on the trackhq equivalent thread there are numerous fatalities from people submarining under their 4-points. Is it brand/model related?

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by redpriest

Aren't 4-point harnesses considered extremely dangerous? Over on the trackhq equivalent thread there are numerous fatalities from people submarining under their 4-points. Is it brand/model related?

There are different types of 4pts. I lost sleep over the research to be sure before I bought.

Go look at schroth quick fit vs quick fit pro and notice the differences.

Joining at the center vs not.
Including ASM module vs not.

And then the stupidity behind using it:
Installed correctly vs not (?!?!)
Worn properly vs not (?!?!)

[Kong Sheng Han]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

if you have the pro version, look at the straps behind the seat. there is a module on there that will extend your inside shoulder strap giving some slack there. That way, it will act like a oem in that the inner torso will pitch forward so that you will not submarine.

This?



I have QFP for driver and regular QF for passenger. Came together used, but now that I know the difference, I'll be replacing the passenger harness with a Pro.

Also, if that is the module you're talking about, I would think that the way the harness is designed, your whole torso would move forward, not just inner torso.

Photo from previous owner.
Or are you talking about this?

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by Kong Sheng Han

This?



I have QFP for driver and regular QF for passenger. Came together used, but now that I know the difference, I'll be replacing the passenger harness with a Pro.

Also, if that is the module you're talking about, I would think that the way the harness is designed, your whole torso would move forward, not just inner torso.

look at the strap it is connected to (it'll be different for driver and passenger also the front lap belt clips). It's for the inside shoulder strap. Since that side will give more than the outside strap, in effect, it mimicks an oem 3 point (no inside shoulder strap). If one side stretches more than than the other, your body will move forward but rotate on the axis (spine). That in turn makes your torso bend at the hips, and that's how you do not submarine because now you are folded over the lap belt.

It's good that you are going to upgrade your passenger to the pro version. BUT, if passenger does not have Hans device, they should never use the quick fit pro. They should use the oem 3pt always.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by Kong Sheng Han

This?

.

How come in my quote the harness turned blue from your silver?

[Kong Sheng Han]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

look at the strap it is connected to (it'll be different for driver and passenger also the front lap belt clips). It's for the inside shoulder strap. Since that side will give more than the outside strap, in effect, it mimicks an oem 3 point (no inside shoulder strap). If one side stretches more than than the other, your body will move forward but rotate on the axis (spine). That in turn makes your torso bend at the hips, and that's how you do not submarine because now you are folded over the lap belt.

It's good that you are going to upgrade your passenger to the pro version. BUT, if passenger does not have Hans device, they should never use the quick fit pro. They should use the oem 3pt always.

I understand the physics behind the body movement. Didn't realize the QFP mimics a 3-point though, so it all makes sense now.

Yeah, definitely. Harness only if using a HANS.

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

How come in my quote the harness turned blue from your silver?

Photo was originally blue, but I changed it to silver so that it's easier to see. Also take a look at the red harness. I can't take a look at my harness in-person since my M3 is 250 miles away.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by Kong Sheng Han

I understand the physics behind the body movement. Didn't realize the QFP mimics a 3-point though, so it all makes sense now.

Yeah, definitely. Harness only if using a HANS.



Photo was originally blue, but I changed it to silver so that it's easier to see. Also take a look at the red harness. I can't take a look at my harness in-person since my M3 is 250 miles away.

mine looks like the one in the silver/blue photo. I can't really tell from the pictures of the ones you bought from the previous owner. It could be the same technology but maybe a previous version. Unless it was just an adjustment strap.

[CalSE]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

if you have the pro version, look at the straps behind the seat. there is a module on there that will extend your inside shoulder strap giving some slack there. That way, it will act like a oem in that the inner torso will pitch forward so that you will not submarine.

I am wondering if these 4-point systems also mimic the OEM 3-point in a side impact condition. Is your torso allowed to pivot sideways about the lap belt so not so much stress is translated to your neck?

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by CalSE

I am wondering if these 4-point systems also mimic the OEM 3-point in a side impact condition. Is your torso allowed to pivot sideways about the lap belt so not so much stress is translated to your neck?

pretty much shit out of luck with oem belts on a side collision. but belts stretch, so if they are stretched once, need to cut and toss....side airbag will at least protect you going one way whether its on the initial hit or on the whiplash.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by okusa

Looks like I described exactly what happened after all.

http://bakersfieldnow.com/news/local...efore-birthday

Something may have broken too, but likely two off, correct, get traction, snap across the track, bad things happen. Very unfortunate no matter what caused it.

[surewin]

Originally Posted by admranger

Something may have broken too, but likely two off, correct, get traction, snap across the track, bad things happen. Very unfortunate no matter what caused it.

Yeah, very sad. That's why many driving instructors say that if you know that you're going to dip your tires in the dirt after the esses bc you early apexed or something, it's best to just ride into the dirt.