Driver died at buttonwillow today.

[1MOREMOD]

Except for passenger side wheels going off on the left side. Would need to be going backwards for that.

[okusa]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Except for passenger side wheels going off on the left side. Would need to be going backwards for that.

Haha. Yes, should have said right side of course.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by okusa

Haha. Yes, should have said right side of course.

No worries I've done it and about hit a turn station at the ridge turn 3.

[Gary Milgrom]

Caveat: I work for HANS Performance Products, inventors and marketers of the HANS Device frontal head restraint. Thank you for the opportunity of posting in this forum. There are some incorrect claims upthread about side impact protection offered by Frontal Head Restraints. Here is the most accurate information currently available on this subject.

FRONTAL HEAD RESTRAINTS AND SIDE IMPACTS

1. All FIA and SFI certified frontal head restraints offer protection from zero to 30 degrees offset. No FHR provides complete protection in side impacts beyond 30 degrees. For complete side impact protection head surrounds, full containment seats or side nets should be your primary means of protection.

2. What defines side impact? If you mean someone hitting your door at 90 degrees but the manufacturer means slightly offset from head on you are not talking about the same thing and you may not receive the level of protection you expect.

3. Anecdotal evidence shows lateral head surrounds, full containment seats or side nets must be used to provide protection from side impacts; while your frontal head restraint provides protection from zero to thirty degree offset impacts.

4. The Simpson 360 degree approach to cockpit safety - harness, helmet, suit, seat, nets and head restraint has been proven to provide exceptional levels of safety in your race car.

If you have any questions about cockpit safety it would be my pleasure to try and help. Thank you,

Gary Milgrom, VP
HANS Performance Products
gmilgrom (at) teamsimpson (dot) com

[sungjungsc]

Gary,

I have a question. If we are using all OEM stock safety equipment (3 point OEM belt, stock seats, and all oem airbags), is it safe to use your products like Hans or Hybrids with OEM safeties? I was told by people to avoid using Hans or Hybrid if I don't have bucket seats and harness with roll cage.

Originally Posted by Gary Milgrom

Caveat: I work for HANS Performance Products, inventors and marketers of the HANS Device frontal head restraint. Thank you for the opportunity of posting in this forum. There are some incorrect claims upthread about side impact protection offered by Frontal Head Restraints. Here is the most accurate information currently available on this subject.

FRONTAL HEAD RESTRAINTS AND SIDE IMPACTS

1. All FIA and SFI certified frontal head restraints offer protection from zero to 30 degrees offset. No FHR provides complete protection in side impacts beyond 30 degrees. For complete side impact protection head surrounds, full containment seats or side nets should be your primary means of protection.

2. What defines side impact? If you mean someone hitting your door at 90 degrees but the manufacturer means slightly offset from head on you are not talking about the same thing and you may not receive the level of protection you expect.

3. Anecdotal evidence shows lateral head surrounds, full containment seats or side nets must be used to provide protection from side impacts; while your frontal head restraint provides protection from zero to thirty degree offset impacts.

4. The Simpson 360 degree approach to cockpit safety - harness, helmet, suit, seat, nets and head restraint has been proven to provide exceptional levels of safety in your race car.

If you have any questions about cockpit safety it would be my pleasure to try and help. Thank you,

Gary Milgrom, VP
HANS Performance Products
gmilgrom (at) teamsimpson (dot) com

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by sungjungsc

Gary,

I have a question. If we are using all OEM stock safety equipment (3 point OEM belt, stock seats, and all oem airbags), is it safe to use your products like Hans or Hybrids with OEM safeties? I was told by people to avoid using Hans or Hybrid if I don't have bucket seats and harness with roll cage.

Have you actually seen how HANS device is secured and attached? The TWO shoulder belts on a fixed 5 or 6 point harness holds the HANS device firmly in place against your body, then the device is attached to your helmet via a tether to prevent the head from moving away from the body in the event of sudden deceleration.

I don't see how any head and neck restraint system can possibly work with a 3 point OEM belt? HANS is designed exclusively to work with harnesses, and harnesses almost exclusively require roll cage, and roll cage almost exclusively require bucket, fixed back seats. Without all three working in tandem, you don't have a working safety system.

[nholmes]

Originally Posted by The HACK

I don't see how any head and neck restraint system can possibly work with a 3 point OEM belt? HANS is designed exclusively to work with harnesses, and harnesses almost exclusively require roll cage, and roll cage almost exclusively require bucket, fixed back seats. Without all three working in tandem, you don't have a working safety system.

This.

[sungjungsc]

thank you!

[ortho281]

Originally Posted by sungjungsc

Gary,

I have a question. If we are using all OEM stock safety equipment (3 point OEM belt, stock seats, and all oem airbags), is it safe to use your products like Hans or Hybrids with OEM safeties? I was told by people to avoid using Hans or Hybrid if I don't have bucket seats and harness with roll cage.

Some head restraints like the Hybrid R3 can work with OEM 3 point seat belts as well as 5-6 point harnesses. Several of the instructors at our local track use this restraint when instructing in vehicles with OEM seat belts.

[Kong Sheng Han]

Originally Posted by The HACK

Have you actually seen how HANS device is secured and attached? The TWO shoulder belts on a fixed 5 or 6 point harness holds the HANS device firmly in place against your body, then the device is attached to your helmet via a tether to prevent the head from moving away from the body in the event of sudden deceleration.

I don't see how any head and neck restraint system can possibly work with a 3 point OEM belt? HANS is designed exclusively to work with harnesses, and harnesses almost exclusively require roll cage, and roll cage almost exclusively require bucket, fixed back seats. Without all three working in tandem, you don't have a working safety system.

Was checking out some neck restraints today. Simpson Hybrid has one that's compatible with three-point seat belts.

[1MOREMOD]

I run back half cage, Recaro spg, and hans. Don't have any airbags. Considering a halo seat.

[redpriest]

Friend of mine showed me this in response to the tragic events.
The safety net, halo seat + total system works. 136 mph hit!!

I think it helps that COTA has world class barriers too, but wow, this is a hard side hit and the driver has barely any injuries:

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by redpriest

Friend of mine showed me this in response to the tragic events.
The safety net, halo seat + total system works. 136 mph hit!!

I think it helps that COTA has world class barriers too, but wow, this is a hard side hit and the driver has barely any injuries:

gnarly. have you seen the video where a ferrari literally flies for a hundreds of feet before crashing?

[redpriest]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

gnarly. have you seen the video where a ferrari literally flies for a hundreds of feet before crashing?

I think I've seen every crash video in preparation for HPDE, including that one. That's the one where he tries to act as a plow?

[M3 Number 86]

[okusa]

Looks like I described exactly what happened after all.

http://bakersfieldnow.com/news/local...efore-birthday

[Groundpilot]

Originally Posted by okusa

Looks like I described exactly what happened after all.

http://bakersfieldnow.com/news/local...efore-birthday

Looks like it. Those kind of mistakes that result in a bad crash are very common.
But, there may have been something else we dont know about.
He was a pro driver, and not likely he made a mistake you are describing in your post.

[okusa]

Originally Posted by Groundpilot

Looks like it. Those kind of mistakes that result in a bad crash are very common.
But, there may have been something else we dont know about.
He was a pro driver, and not likely he made a mistake you are describing in your post.

Having no idea of course, I would argue the fact that he was a pro driver is exactly what caused the crash.

I have made that same mistake there a few times. However, I was warned by friends to never try and save it there. Just go off right and own it.

I am guessing that a pro driver on the other hand doesn't think that way. They assume they can save it.

[CalSE]

Originally Posted by Groundpilot

Looks like it. Those kind of mistakes that result in a bad crash are very common.
But, there may have been something else we dont know about.
He was a pro driver, and not likely he made a mistake you are describing in your post.

I have seen and heard of quite a few accidents occuring after the last of the esses where the driver drops right wheels on the dirt, tries to correct, traction re-engages while sideways, and then catapults into the left side wall tire barrier.

Every driver's meeting I have been to warns us of that problematic section including Phil Hill. I just straighten my wheel and go off roading.

[M3 Number 86]

Originally Posted by CalSE

I have seen and heard of quite a few accidents occuring after the last of the esses where the driver drops right wheels on the dirt, tries to correct, traction re-engages while sideways, and then catapults into the left side wall tire barrier.

Every driver's meeting I have been to warns us of that problematic section including Phil Hill. I just straighten my wheel and go off roading.

the other part to the story is still unknown. i'm still assuming that he broke due to neck injuries sustained with a harness and no hans.

[atruelunatic]

Just moved to SoCal and stumbled upon Renner Motorsports to do some tire installs. I saw this thread and didn't know who Ivo was until more pictures came out of him and now recognize that he was the one who did the install on my tires. He went out of his way to get everything fixed correctly even when the previous installer messed up my TPMS and didn't even charge me for the extra work. Very good man from what I can tell. My condolences go out to his family, friends, and everyone at Renner Motorsports.

[CanAutM3]

Originally Posted by M3 Number 86

RIP

My guess is that if he was in a prepped e46 with cage with harness but maybe didn't have a hans on? I heard the passenger side was the impact and for me it doesn't make sense that the driver died but the passenger didn't unless it was some sort of neck injury.

I am running a hans right now and will be getting a cage with seats and will make sure to get seats with removable halo. Either that or I'm going to go with the simpson hybrid pro which also provides side impact protection and works on all types of seats. Seems like rally drivers are going with this system more and more and being that we are in closed cars may be a safer alternative than hans. just personal opinion.

RIP

Ill be there in a couple sundays from now. as i've gotten faster safety has become my number one thing but now my wife is freaking out so i'm going all out on the safety gear fuck that.

Hans will not help in a side impact. You need a seat with ears for that.

We also had a fatality at my local track last year. Fully prepped GT3 with cage, harness and Hans. He hit the wall sideways.