Bad car buying experience! Need input!

Dux · 06-12-2009, 01:16 AM

Hello everyone! I posted this on e90post but I wanted to post it here too to get more input.

Anyways, I just wanted to get some opinions/advice about my recent car buying experience.

On Sunday, I went to test drive a 2002 M3 Convertible with 35K miles for about $23000 and trade in my 2006 325i with 57K miles. After about a few hours of test driving and negotiations, we finally settled on the financing for 7.24%. On Tuesday, I came to check out the car to swap the out rims and to check the progress of the full detail.

To my surprise they wanted to speak to me when I came in about the financing. They told me they could not get me the original 7.24% financing I signed for and the new rate they could only get me was 9.59% instead, b/c they tried all their best to find a financial institution to get me a rate of 7.24%. Again after about a few more hours of renegotiating, I told them I was very disappointed (and very irritated) that they would try to get me to sign a new contract with a higher interest rate. They manipulated the calculations, including extending loan term and even showed me that they could offer me more for my trade in, to bring the monthly payment lower. Knowing better, I knew not to negotiate a vehicle with just monthly payment and I paid attention to the closing cost at the end of the term, which was getting bigger due to the increased interest rate. I told them several times that I wanted to void the contract and get my 325i back b/c I have the right to do so if the signed contract was changed. They did not allow me to void my contract at that time and told me to come back tomorrow.

I came back the next day and again I spoke to another person from the dealership, so his would be the 4th person I’ve talked to. He told me that they found a financial institution to get me the interest rate I originally signed for at 7.29% and that original contract stands. After speaking to him for a couple of hours about how I was disappointed and I just wanted my 325i back b/c of the experience yesterday. I believe they attempted to sign me a new contract with a higher interest rate and I felt they were scamming me for more money. I told him my experience here was terrible and I did not want the M3 anymore because of what they put me through. I told them I was surprised what they could have offered me originally on Sunday, like more money for my trade in or lowered the warranty, but did not originally. Also, I was upset that they were manipulating the monthly payment but still costing me more overall at the end of the term. In the end, the person told me that I signed the original contract and I had to keep the M3, even though I tried to have them void it on Tuesday.

I know this is a long story but I just wanted to get anyone’s opinion/advice on this and if I should hire an attorney to get my car back. I know the M3 is a much better car but after that experience it spoiled the M3 for me.

Thanx

Samifumi · 06-12-2009, 03:16 AM

I'm an attorney in Texas. I deal with deceptive trade practices by dealerships regularly. I'll offer you the disclaimer that I am not an attorney in Oregon, so take this advice knowing that I do not practice and I am not licensed in Oregon.

You just got "dehorsed." This is a common tactic by dealerships to "renegotiate" after they could not get you "approved" at the rate promised, and you are in a difficult bind because you no longer have your car. What should you do? If you want this to get really expensive, you can go hire an attorney to TRY to get your car back, but the dealership is going to disclaim all knowledge of the renegotiation attempt (you probably dont have any paperwork evidencing the attempt to get you financed at a different rate). No paperwork, no evidence other than verbal. My advice, if you wanted the M3 at approx 7%, then go get it because getting an attorney involved can get VERY expensive, and may not be in your best interest unless drawn out legal proceedings are fun for you. Ultimately, they deceived you, tried to squeeze you for more money. But dehorsing isn't entirely illegal.

Nawaaz · 06-12-2009, 10:51 PM

Take the M3, and never go back to that dealership ever again. Never even refer anyone to them either. I know it's painful to swallow, but just take your M3 and never look back.

smmmurf · 06-13-2009, 03:15 AM

Whatever you do don't buy the car from them-- did they screw you on your trade in value? if they did, then try to get the car back. if they didn't, and you got a fair price for it, take the money and use it to buy another M3.

rainzoro · 06-13-2009, 04:24 PM

The core question is,

does the risk of getting an attorney involved outweigh the benefit of lowering 2% interest rate?

If you ask my opinion, I say get the m3, and just step out.

shit happens and you can drop a penny, but depending on where you're standing it may cost more to pick it back up.

cprx7 · 06-13-2009, 06:48 PM

i would complain to bmw usa

kiloil · 06-13-2009, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smmmurf

Whatever you do don't buy the car from them-- did they screw you on your trade in value? if they did, then try to get the car back. if they didn't, and you got a fair price for it, take the money and use it to buy another M3.

Did you read his entire post? He said he signed the CONTRACT. Unless he wants to hire an attorney and take these guys to court, its pointless. Its also pointless to contact BMW NA. They have no bearing on individual dealerships and their selling practices.

My words of advise here: Take this experience and learn from it.

GregW / Oregon · 06-13-2009, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dux

Hello everyone! I posted this on e90post but I wanted to post it here too to get more input.

Anyways, I just wanted to get some opinions/advice about my recent car buying experience.

On Sunday, I went to test drive a 2002 M3 Convertible with 35K miles for about $23000 and trade in my 2006 325i with 57K miles. After about a few hours of test driving and negotiations, we finally settled on the financing for 7.24%. On Tuesday, I came to check out the car to swap the out rims and to check the progress of the full detail.

To my surprise they wanted to speak to me when I came in about the financing. They told me they could not get me the original 7.24% financing I signed for and the new rate they could only get me was 9.59% instead, b/c they tried all their best to find a financial institution to get me a rate of 7.24%. Again after about a few more hours of renegotiating, I told them I was very disappointed (and very irritated) that they would try to get me to sign a new contract with a higher interest rate. They manipulated the calculations, including extending loan term and even showed me that they could offer me more for my trade in, to bring the monthly payment lower. Knowing better, I knew not to negotiate a vehicle with just monthly payment and I paid attention to the closing cost at the end of the term, which was getting bigger due to the increased interest rate. I told them several times that I wanted to void the contract and get my 325i back b/c I have the right to do so if the signed contract was changed. They did not allow me to void my contract at that time and told me to come back tomorrow.

I came back the next day and again I spoke to another person from the dealership, so his would be the 4th person I’ve talked to. He told me that they found a financial institution to get me the interest rate I originally signed for at 7.29% and that original contract stands. After speaking to him for a couple of hours about how I was disappointed and I just wanted my 325i back b/c of the experience yesterday. I believe they attempted to sign me a new contract with a higher interest rate and I felt they were scamming me for more money. I told him my experience here was terrible and I did not want the M3 anymore because of what they put me through. I told them I was surprised what they could have offered me originally on Sunday, like more money for my trade in or lowered the warranty, but did not originally. Also, I was upset that they were manipulating the monthly payment but still costing me more overall at the end of the term. In the end, the person told me that I signed the original contract and I had to keep the M3, even though I tried to have them void it on Tuesday.

I know this is a long story but I just wanted to get anyone’s opinion/advice on this and if I should hire an attorney to get my car back. I know the M3 is a much better car but after that experience it spoiled the M3 for me.

Thanx

Was this Delon?

As others have said, learn from it and walk away. May be worth it to come to Portland for service. That is a short-sighted meneuver for a dealer.
I can't see either Rasmussen or Kuni in Portland doing that.

spectrumphoto · 06-14-2009, 02:52 AM

OK... 2 cents here....

Did they "find" you new financing at the 7% or just push through the original contract terms upon the financing company? If it is "new" financing at the original terms they are going to need a new contract... Easy, do not sign. If they are honoring the original contract with the original financing company then you are in a more difficult spot.

Have you signed over your old car yet? Have they paid off your balance on your old car? You could contact your current lien holder and put a stop payment on it, and notify the dealership that you are stopping the transaction and they have to return your car or face potential theft charges. (If your car has been re-assigned then this will not work)

The other best option is to get the local Better Business Bureau as well as state dealership licensing body (every state has one) involved. An Attorney is rarely your best option. Its expensive and time consuming. It can happen (and does so more on non banking days/hours) that there is a rate change because they could not get your credit terms approved. This can be used as a deal breaker. It is kind of rare though for the dealership to come back to where they first were in terms of interest rate and actually kind of odd.

Dux · 06-14-2009, 10:32 PM

This did not happen at Delon (or O'brian), which by the way was great at getting my first E90 325i, but good size non-BMW stealership in the Salem, OR area.

On Friday, I spoke to a consumer fraud attorney in the Portland, OR area and he told me what they tried to get me to do was wrong and what I did was right for not signing for a new contract with a higher interest rate. He told me the day they could not get me the original rate I signed for they should have allowed me to void my contract but they did not. He instructed me to contact the Oregon Attorney General’s office and get their input on.

I then called the Attorney General's (AG) consumer hotline number and spoke to a representative. I described my circumstances to him and he told me that since I signed a binding contract I am stuck with it b/c they did, at the end, fulfill the original agreement. He told me that the AG will not back me on this b/c it involves a written binding agreement but I still have the option to pursue it with an attorney.

When I told the attorney from Portland, OR what the AG rep told me, he called them himself and told me that I was stuck too. The attorney from portland, OR told me that since I signed the contract and took possession of the car the first day, the day before they decided to increase the interest rate, that gave them 14 days to find me financing. He told me a case could go both ways and I can actually do more harm than good for myself.

The dealership now wants me to come in again (for the 4th time) to sign another piece of paper b/c they claimed I signed it in the wrong place. They told me it was the Oregon Secured Power of Attorney for Motor Vehicles and needed it to "pay off my existing loan". I really don't want to sign another piece of paper so I will again call the attorney in Portland and the AG tomorrow about this document.

Now to be honest I am fed up with this. What they tried to do is actually causing me extreme anxiety b/c I really don't want the car anymore. The fact that they showed me how much more they could have given me for my trade-in, they could have lowered the warranty more, even given me more for the M3, and the whole increasing the interest rate deal, made the whole car buying experience sick to my stomach. Believe me the E46 M3 is a great car and a lot better than my e90 325i but I really don't want to pay off a car I don't want for the next few years.

I’ll get back to you guys again when after I make that call….

Dux · 06-14-2009, 10:36 PM

I think they are allowed to fill in the financial institution part later when they actually find me one but the terms and rate has to be on paper when I sign.

I was going to contact the BBB and get a hold of the state licensing body about them. I was also file a formal complaint to the AG as well.

Thanks

Quote:

Originally Posted by spectrumphoto

OK... 2 cents here....

Did they "find" you new financing at the 7% or just push through the original contract terms upon the financing company? If it is "new" financing at the original terms they are going to need a new contract... Easy, do not sign. If they are honoring the original contract with the original financing company then you are in a more difficult spot.

Have you signed over your old car yet? Have they paid off your balance on your old car? You could contact your current lien holder and put a stop payment on it, and notify the dealership that you are stopping the transaction and they have to return your car or face potential theft charges. (If your car has been re-assigned then this will not work)

The other best option is to get the local Better Business Bureau as well as state dealership licensing body (every state has one) involved. An Attorney is rarely your best option. Its expensive and time consuming. It can happen (and does so more on non banking days/hours) that there is a rate change because they could not get your credit terms approved. This can be used as a deal breaker. It is kind of rare though for the dealership to come back to where they first were in terms of interest rate and actually kind of odd.

Samifumi · 06-15-2009, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dux

The dealership now wants me to come in again (for the 4th time) to sign another piece of paper b/c they claimed I signed it in the wrong place. They told me it was the Oregon Secured Power of Attorney for Motor Vehicles and needed it to "pay off my existing loan". I really don't want to sign another piece of paper so I will again call the attorney in Portland and the AG tomorrow about this document.

If you want out of the original agreement, this is it. If you don't sign this document, they can't do anything with your old car and it means it's still available to take back (ie you did not relinquish your rights to the car if they need and don't have this document signed). Technically, when they tried to renegotiate the terms of the contract, they 2-207'ed, and you didn't accept. Demand the car back and if they dont, have your attorney draft a deep breathing DTPA letter.

Subw00er · 06-15-2009, 12:19 PM

Uhm, just got to pentagon federal. They are 3.99% right now. Even if they hold you to the car, just go through with it and immediately pay it off with the pen fed check.

1cleanm6 · 06-15-2009, 01:10 PM

WOW intense situation...

However the contract you signed was for 7.x % and if it got changed in anyway without you signing it, you are not obligated to purchase the car.

On the trade, they can not buy your car i dont care in what sitation unless you give them the right too....

Honestly walk in and demand your car back at all expenses, threaten them with a lawyer also. They will lose, if they changed the contract at all.

Trust me buying a car is like buying a home, its not a one day thing. If you are comfy with the purchase you do not need to buy anything.

spectrumphoto · 06-16-2009, 02:07 AM

I have to say that you are in a bit more of a bind since from my understanding you have driven the new car off teh lot after any contract signerature. But there is such a thing as financing "Roll Backs" that you can not be penalized for. Usually though this means that they could not get you any financing.

The PenFed idea is not that bad if you can qualify to their stringent qualifications. (They are a great bank, My M3 is with them)

06-12-2009, 01:16 AM	#1
Dux All ducked out 3 Rep 49 Posts Drives: E90 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Salem, OR iTrader: (0)	Bad car buying experience! Need input! Hello everyone! I posted this on e90post but I wanted to post it here too to get more input. Anyways, I just wanted to get some opinions/advice about my recent car buying experience. On Sunday, I went to test drive a 2002 M3 Convertible with 35K miles for about $23000 and trade in my 2006 325i with 57K miles. After about a few hours of test driving and negotiations, we finally settled on the financing for 7.24%. On Tuesday, I came to check out the car to swap the out rims and to check the progress of the full detail. To my surprise they wanted to speak to me when I came in about the financing. They told me they could not get me the original 7.24% financing I signed for and the new rate they could only get me was 9.59% instead, b/c they tried all their best to find a financial institution to get me a rate of 7.24%. Again after about a few more hours of renegotiating, I told them I was very disappointed (and very irritated) that they would try to get me to sign a new contract with a higher interest rate. They manipulated the calculations, including extending loan term and even showed me that they could offer me more for my trade in, to bring the monthly payment lower. Knowing better, I knew not to negotiate a vehicle with just monthly payment and I paid attention to the closing cost at the end of the term, which was getting bigger due to the increased interest rate. I told them several times that I wanted to void the contract and get my 325i back b/c I have the right to do so if the signed contract was changed. They did not allow me to void my contract at that time and told me to come back tomorrow. I came back the next day and again I spoke to another person from the dealership, so his would be the 4th person I’ve talked to. He told me that they found a financial institution to get me the interest rate I originally signed for at 7.29% and that original contract stands. After speaking to him for a couple of hours about how I was disappointed and I just wanted my 325i back b/c of the experience yesterday. I believe they attempted to sign me a new contract with a higher interest rate and I felt they were scamming me for more money. I told him my experience here was terrible and I did not want the M3 anymore because of what they put me through. I told them I was surprised what they could have offered me originally on Sunday, like more money for my trade in or lowered the warranty, but did not originally. Also, I was upset that they were manipulating the monthly payment but still costing me more overall at the end of the term. In the end, the person told me that I signed the original contract and I had to keep the M3, even though I tried to have them void it on Tuesday. I know this is a long story but I just wanted to get anyone’s opinion/advice on this and if I should hire an attorney to get my car back. I know the M3 is a much better car but after that experience it spoiled the M3 for me. Thanx
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06-12-2009, 03:16 AM	#2
Samifumi Private First Class 6 Rep 150 Posts Drives: 2008 M3 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Nederland, Texas iTrader: (0)	I'm an attorney in Texas. I deal with deceptive trade practices by dealerships regularly. I'll offer you the disclaimer that I am not an attorney in Oregon, so take this advice knowing that I do not practice and I am not licensed in Oregon. You just got "dehorsed." This is a common tactic by dealerships to "renegotiate" after they could not get you "approved" at the rate promised, and you are in a difficult bind because you no longer have your car. What should you do? If you want this to get really expensive, you can go hire an attorney to TRY to get your car back, but the dealership is going to disclaim all knowledge of the renegotiation attempt (you probably dont have any paperwork evidencing the attempt to get you financed at a different rate). No paperwork, no evidence other than verbal. My advice, if you wanted the M3 at approx 7%, then go get it because getting an attorney involved can get VERY expensive, and may not be in your best interest unless drawn out legal proceedings are fun for you. Ultimately, they deceived you, tried to squeeze you for more money. But dehorsing isn't entirely illegal.
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06-12-2009, 10:51 PM	#3
Nawaaz Brigadier General 221 Rep 4,643 Posts Drives: . Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: . iTrader: (0)	Take the M3, and never go back to that dealership ever again. Never even refer anyone to them either. I know it's painful to swallow, but just take your M3 and never look back.
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06-13-2009, 03:15 AM	#4
smmmurf Colonel 309 Rep 2,189 Posts Drives: E92 M3 DCT 353k+ miles Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Half Moon Bay, CA iTrader: (7)	Whatever you do don't buy the car from them-- did they screw you on your trade in value? if they did, then try to get the car back. if they didn't, and you got a fair price for it, take the money and use it to buy another M3.
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06-13-2009, 04:24 PM	#5
rainzoro Enlisted Member 1 Rep 34 Posts Drives: jerez black M3 Join Date: May 2009 Location: binghamton NY iTrader: (0)	The core question is, does the risk of getting an attorney involved outweigh the benefit of lowering 2% interest rate? If you ask my opinion, I say get the m3, and just step out. shit happens and you can drop a penny, but depending on where you're standing it may cost more to pick it back up.
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06-13-2009, 06:48 PM	#6
cprx7 Lieutenant 306 Rep 596 Posts Drives: 2011 X5 50i; Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: NJ iTrader: (1)	i would complain to bmw usa
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06-14-2009, 02:52 AM	#9
spectrumphoto Just another peanut in the Turd! 92 Rep 598 Posts Drives: g16M850;f30M550;f80M3-ED;e90M3 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Hollywierd, SoCal iTrader: (2)	OK... 2 cents here.... Did they "find" you new financing at the 7% or just push through the original contract terms upon the financing company? If it is "new" financing at the original terms they are going to need a new contract... Easy, do not sign. If they are honoring the original contract with the original financing company then you are in a more difficult spot. Have you signed over your old car yet? Have they paid off your balance on your old car? You could contact your current lien holder and put a stop payment on it, and notify the dealership that you are stopping the transaction and they have to return your car or face potential theft charges. (If your car has been re-assigned then this will not work) The other best option is to get the local Better Business Bureau as well as state dealership licensing body (every state has one) involved. An Attorney is rarely your best option. Its expensive and time consuming. It can happen (and does so more on non banking days/hours) that there is a rate change because they could not get your credit terms approved. This can be used as a deal breaker. It is kind of rare though for the dealership to come back to where they first were in terms of interest rate and actually kind of odd.
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06-14-2009, 10:32 PM	#10
Dux All ducked out 3 Rep 49 Posts Drives: E90 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Salem, OR iTrader: (0)	This did not happen at Delon (or O'brian), which by the way was great at getting my first E90 325i, but good size non-BMW stealership in the Salem, OR area. On Friday, I spoke to a consumer fraud attorney in the Portland, OR area and he told me what they tried to get me to do was wrong and what I did was right for not signing for a new contract with a higher interest rate. He told me the day they could not get me the original rate I signed for they should have allowed me to void my contract but they did not. He instructed me to contact the Oregon Attorney General’s office and get their input on. I then called the Attorney General's (AG) consumer hotline number and spoke to a representative. I described my circumstances to him and he told me that since I signed a binding contract I am stuck with it b/c they did, at the end, fulfill the original agreement. He told me that the AG will not back me on this b/c it involves a written binding agreement but I still have the option to pursue it with an attorney. When I told the attorney from Portland, OR what the AG rep told me, he called them himself and told me that I was stuck too. The attorney from portland, OR told me that since I signed the contract and took possession of the car the first day, the day before they decided to increase the interest rate, that gave them 14 days to find me financing. He told me a case could go both ways and I can actually do more harm than good for myself. The dealership now wants me to come in again (for the 4th time) to sign another piece of paper b/c they claimed I signed it in the wrong place. They told me it was the Oregon Secured Power of Attorney for Motor Vehicles and needed it to "pay off my existing loan". I really don't want to sign another piece of paper so I will again call the attorney in Portland and the AG tomorrow about this document. Now to be honest I am fed up with this. What they tried to do is actually causing me extreme anxiety b/c I really don't want the car anymore. The fact that they showed me how much more they could have given me for my trade-in, they could have lowered the warranty more, even given me more for the M3, and the whole increasing the interest rate deal, made the whole car buying experience sick to my stomach. Believe me the E46 M3 is a great car and a lot better than my e90 325i but I really don't want to pay off a car I don't want for the next few years. I’ll get back to you guys again when after I make that call….
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06-15-2009, 12:19 PM	#13
Subw00er Bates '08 Interlagos Launch 126 Rep 1,230 Posts Drives: 440i xGC, ZL1, JCW Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: NY iTrader: (2)	Uhm, just got to pentagon federal. They are 3.99% right now. Even if they hold you to the car, just go through with it and immediately pay it off with the pen fed check.
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06-15-2009, 01:10 PM	#14
1cleanm6 Brigadier General 441 Rep 3,668 Posts Drives: M5 comp/Range/i3S Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Earth iTrader: (7)	WOW intense situation... However the contract you signed was for 7.x % and if it got changed in anyway without you signing it, you are not obligated to purchase the car. On the trade, they can not buy your car i dont care in what sitation unless you give them the right too.... Honestly walk in and demand your car back at all expenses, threaten them with a lawyer also. They will lose, if they changed the contract at all. Trust me buying a car is like buying a home, its not a one day thing. If you are comfy with the purchase you do not need to buy anything.
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06-16-2009, 02:07 AM	#15
spectrumphoto Just another peanut in the Turd! 92 Rep 598 Posts Drives: g16M850;f30M550;f80M3-ED;e90M3 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Hollywierd, SoCal iTrader: (2)	I have to say that you are in a bit more of a bind since from my understanding you have driven the new car off teh lot after any contract signerature. But there is such a thing as financing "Roll Backs" that you can not be penalized for. Usually though this means that they could not get you any financing. The PenFed idea is not that bad if you can qualify to their stringent qualifications. (They are a great bank, My M3 is with them)
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