Price and car/spec check - E92 6MT

[MMMM6GC]

Hi E9X faithful!

I've had an E92 on my "must own" list and the time has come! I've been browsing the market (here, BaT, C&B, M3List, general classified sites) for a few months to get an idea of what's out there. My original plan was to get a high-mile low $$$ car. This would 100% NOT be a daily driver, and I could do a little restoration and bring it up to my spec over time. I've come across a few and am well aware of the big ticket items, but also with higher miles cars there are lots of unforeseen items and general bits and pieces which just require refreshing after a certain point, so while it's a cheaper entry point, there's a lot of longer term expenditure which you're likely not to get any value back on.

I haven't ruled this option out, but I came across this E92 which is local to me:

https://www.m3list.com/post/2008-bmw...aryland-m3list

What are your thoughts on this one?

Downsides:
- '08 (first MY and older than I wanted, was ideally looking for an LCI)
- Has a minor damage report on the carfax from being tapped in a parking lot - bumper was resprayed
- Interior color is not my favorite
- Not a ZCP which I have a preference for, but I can buy the ZCP/AG wheels and get the cosmetic appearance I want
- RB/TAs not done but I'm not overly concerned given the mileage

Upsides:
- Interlagos Blue - big plus. Super strong pref for this or LMB
- 6MT - I'm 60/40 on manual vs DCT, slight pref for manual and it holds its value better seemingly
- 22k miles. I wouldn't do more than 3k miles a year, I could enjoy this for years and still have a super low mile car which would retain a good amount of value
- CF roof, Nav, BMW MP V1 steering wheel, original delivering dealer installed Dinan stage 1 - great options that I have a super strong preference for, so much so this might be a very long term car for me
- almost every maintenance record from new

What do we think at $42.5k? Jump on it? Good car/spec but negotiate a little? Keep looking? It's a good chunk more than I wanted to spend, but I know most of the high mile $20-25k cars I was looking at would immediately need $5k of work, putting them closer to $30k, and they would never be worth that.

Apologies for the long ramble - but I did want to show I've done some reading and research! Open to hearing your thoughts

[MMMM6GC]

Forgot to add - I would also need to see if the seller is open to a PPI. I've never bought such a high $$$ car privately that is this old (always much newer with either factory or aftermarket warranty, or a much cheaper car) so I think a PPI is a must.

If anyone has any recommendations for a good place to get an E92 PPI in MD I'd greatly appreciate it. I've noted a couple of shops and would love to hear any feedback on these:


https://www.rrtautomotive.com/

https://www.bmwexcluservice.com/

http://www.aktivautomotive.com/

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by MMMM6GC

Hi E9X faithful!

I've had an E92 on my "must own" list and the time has come! I've been browsing the market (here, BaT, C&B, M3List, general classified sites) for a few months to get an idea of what's out there. My original plan was to get a high-mile low $$$ car. This would 100% NOT be a daily driver, and I could do a little restoration and bring it up to my spec over time. I've come across a few and am well aware of the big ticket items, but also with higher miles cars there are lots of unforeseen items and general bits and pieces which just require refreshing after a certain point, so while it's a cheaper entry point, there's a lot of longer term expenditure which you're likely not to get any value back on.

I haven't ruled this option out, but I came across this E92 which is local to me:

https://www.m3list.com/post/2008-bmw...aryland-m3list

What are your thoughts on this one?

Downsides:
- '08 (first MY and older than I wanted, was ideally looking for an LCI)
- Has a minor damage report on the carfax from being tapped in a parking lot - bumper was resprayed
- Interior color is not my favorite
- Not a ZCP which I have a preference for, but I can buy the ZCP/AG wheels and get the cosmetic appearance I want
- RB/TAs not done but I'm not overly concerned given the mileage

Upsides:
- Interlagos Blue - big plus. Super strong pref for this or LMB
- 6MT - I'm 60/40 on manual vs DCT, slight pref for manual and it holds its value better seemingly
- 22k miles. I wouldn't do more than 3k miles a year, I could enjoy this for years and still have a super low mile car which would retain a good amount of value
- CF roof, Nav, BMW MP V1 steering wheel, original delivering dealer installed Dinan stage 1 - great options that I have a super strong preference for, so much so this might be a very long term car for me
- almost every maintenance record from new

What do we think at $42.5k? Jump on it? Good car/spec but negotiate a little? Keep looking? It's a good chunk more than I wanted to spend, but I know most of the high mile $20-25k cars I was looking at would immediately need $5k of work, putting them closer to $30k, and they would never be worth that.

Apologies for the long ramble - but I did want to show I've done some reading and research! Open to hearing your thoughts

You've found quite a rare bird there. Interlagos Blue, 2008, Manual with 22K miles. I'm not a fan of the dove gray leather interior either. However, I can only find one similar low mileage '08 E92 sold within the last year. And it sold for $51.5K on BAT. That one was Melbourne Red on Bamboo beige extended leather, manual and also ultra clean like the one you're asking about.
.See that one here at the link below:
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2008-bmw-m3-coupe-5/
.
Looking at the BAT sales history for '08 E92s sold in the last year reveals only 3 sold above $40K. One was the red one with 22K miles I just mention above, another was a race car, and the other was Supercharged. See the screenshot data charts below. Looking at classic.com for '08 E92s sold within the last year I don't see any that sold with mileage below 60K miles.

My conclusion is: negotiate a bit if you can, but it's priced to sell IMO. Getting the one you've found for high $30K would be a real bargain. Another low mileage car may come along soon, so if you want to wait for another rare bird without the gray interior then keep watching m3list.com and BAT.
.
https://bringatrailer.com/bmw/e90-e9...tible%2C+Sedan
.
https://www.classic.com/m/bmw/3-seri...&chart=mileage
.

.

[MMMM6GC]

Omg thank you for that fantastic and detailed response. Exactly what I was looking for! I agree it's definitely a rare bird especially for comps, it's so rare to find an 08 with such low mileage (typically it's the LCIs that are super low miles). From reading here, most people seem to agree there is little to no difference in an 08 vs a later model / LCI (besides some different options, lights, and things like bluetooth streaming) but none of that bothers me.

I think I am correct in believing that the model year doesn't seem to have as much impact on values these days as much as spec and condition and mileage does.

I'll definitely go and check that E92 out in this case. I highly doubtful the seller will drop below $40k, in fact I think even offering $40k is borderline lowballing?

The Melboure red car on BaT was stunning (and clean cars on BaT do bring a slight premium). I can't open its carfax but reads like it's had multiple owners (4+) whereas this IB E92 has 2 owners including the current. Biggest thing is the damage reported on carfax, I will find out more about this if it is really as described by the seller.

I'm also in no rush so I'll give the car and documents a thorough going over before making any decision. My only thing is - from the "feel" I get of the E92 market, finding another low mileage 6MT car (with even more desirable spec/clean title) will more likely put it in the $50k ballpark. I just haven't come across anything sub 30k miles and manual under that price!

I will report back soon!

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by MMMM6GC

Omg thank you for that fantastic and detailed response. Exactly what I was looking for! I agree it's definitely a rare bird especially for comps, it's so rare to find an 08 with such low mileage (typically it's the LCIs that are super low miles). From reading here, most people seem to agree there is little to no difference in an 08 vs a later model / LCI (besides some different options, lights, and things like bluetooth streaming) but none of that bothers me.

I think I am correct in believing that the model year doesn't seem to have as much impact on values these days as much as spec and condition and mileage does.

I'll definitely go and check that E92 out in this case. I highly doubtful the seller will drop below $40k, in fact I think even offering $40k is borderline lowballing?

The Melboure red car on BaT was stunning (and clean cars on BaT do bring a slight premium). I can't open its carfax but reads like it's had multiple owners (4+) whereas this IB E92 has 2 owners including the current. Biggest thing is the damage reported on carfax, I will find out more about this if it is really as described by the seller.

I'm also in no rush so I'll give the car and documents a thorough going over before making any decision. My only thing is - from the "feel" I get of the E92 market, finding another low mileage 6MT car (with even more desirable spec/clean title) will more likely put it in the $50k ballpark. I just haven't come across anything sub 30k miles and manual under that price!

I will report back soon!

'08s have the older style iDrive, lead/copper rod bearing shells (versus the newer style harder tin bearings), as well as the pre-LCI brake light clusters (bulbs vs. LED I think). These are the major differences. Minor ones include a dual sided power steering ribbed serpentine belt, the air filter, and the power steering pump belt routing. Mine is an '08, and I kept the OEM original rod bearings until 125K miles before changing them for B.E. bearings and ARP (B.E.) bolts. However, in hindsight I should've changed them much sooner due to having a Harrop Supercharger installed from approximately 70K miles to ~125K miles. Some of my old OEM rod bearings came out showing the copper substrate. Perhaps consider starting out offering $40K and negotiate up from there only if needed; that is IF you really want it.

[MMMM6GC]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

'08s have the older style iDrive, lead/copper rod bearing shells (versus the newer style harder tin bearings), as well as the pre-LCI brake light clusters (bulbs vs. LED I think). These are the major differences. Minor ones include a dual sided power steering ribbed serpentine belt, the air filter, and the power steering pump belt routing. Mine is an '08, and I kept the OEM original rod bearings until 125K miles before changing them for B.E. bearings and ARP (B.E.) bolts. However, in hindsight I should've changed them much sooner due to having a Harrop Supercharger installed from approximately 70K miles to ~125K miles. Some of my old OEM rod bearings came out showing the copper substrate. Perhaps consider starting out offering $40K and negotiate up from there only if needed; that is IF you really want it.

Incredibly helpful - thank you!! This was NOT in the stickied "model year differences" thread!!

That's fantastic data point on reliability there. Guess we'll never know but I do wonder how much of the RB/TA issue is impacts lower mileage cars as a % - and if it seems higher due to it being a discussion point by owners. I would say at 22k miles I would feel pretty safe; maybe just put a little bit aside each year and get the job done preemptively after a couple years of ownership anyway? My understanding is that it's less of an age related failure and almost entirely a mileage related issue.

Anyways - I think you're right. I need to get eyes on the car, get a PPI, check the history, and then I can feel justified in putting in a reasonable offer - starting at high 30s or 40 condition depending. The "IF I really want it" part is key - totally agree. Being that I can wait, there will always be another car as there doesn't seem to be a shortage of new listings!

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by MMMM6GC

Incredibly helpful - thank you!! This was NOT in the stickied "model year differences" thread!!

That's fantastic data point on reliability there. Guess we'll never know but I do wonder how much of the RB/TA issue is impacts lower mileage cars as a % - and if it seems higher due to it being a discussion point by owners. I would say at 22k miles I would feel pretty safe; maybe just put a little bit aside each year and get the job done preemptively after a couple years of ownership anyway? My understanding is that it's less of an age related failure and almost entirely a mileage related issue.

Anyways - I think you're right. I need to get eyes on the car, get a PPI, check the history, and then I can feel justified in putting in a reasonable offer - starting at high 30s or 40 condition depending. The "IF I really want it" part is key - totally agree. Being that I can wait, there will always be another car as there doesn't seem to be a shortage of new listings!

Since you're a serious buyer there at least 3 forum threads you should read that I have linked below:

For New Owners - What I wish I knew when I first bought my E9X M3:
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1418410
.
Official S65 Rod Bearing Condition Example Thread
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1253084
.
Everything I need to know BEFORE I buy an M3
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1027592
.
The Rod Bearing and Throttle Actuator issues are real, but as many owners have found out it's a bit of a "German Lottery". The Rod Bearing issue is a result of extra tight bearing clearances which are exacerbated by manufacturing tolerances and variation. Rod bearing wear can and does show up even in ~50K miles cars.

The TA issue is also a "German Lottery" because of two failure modes 1) actuator gear teeth wear and 2) MOSFETs and transistor motherboard failure. Just to reiterate, both of these issues can happen at anytime, but the probability is much higher in higher mileage cars (above approximately 50K+ miles). There will be some who disagree, but that's okay. I'm just giving you one man's opinion based upon almost 13 years on this forum and 14 years of E92 M3 ownership.

I agree buying a car with 22K miles is indeed "pretty safe" providing the car has been impeccably maintained and not tracked. Providing the above caveats are true; my feeing is if you buy this particular car then just drive the heck out of it until around 50K miles -> and only then act preemptively. Yep, you can always wait too. See the information in the links above.

[MMMM6GC]

Thanks again DrFerry - I did just that as soon as I started researching - those threads were invaluable!

Just saw this listing on BaT end now

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2008-bmw-m3-coupe-28/

About $38k with fees. '08, 6MT, less desirable color (for me at least), 7 previous owners and 61k miles, big ticket jobs not done. While it may have suffered a BaT premium (and carfax is clean), makes the one I've found look like a much, much better deal.

I will report back once I see it!

[MMMM6GC]

DrFerry Thanks again for your help and valuable insight - very much appreciated!

So summary - I viewed it and didn't make a deal - made a strong offer given the market currently and the C&B sale today

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/3RJ...9-bmw-m3-coupe

'09, 6mt, 25k miles, sunroof, MR, bamboo extended, great condition and RB's done. Sold for a hair under $41k after fees.

So some background on the car.

Seller is the second owner, owning less than a year. First owner purchased new and was a wealthy - but very odd - fellow. Lived in downtown B'more and drove the car 22k over 14 years. Had the car trailered to a BMW dealer for every small to large item, from recalls to mods (MP steering wheel, Dinan tune), more money than sense kind of guy. Service history is therefore on point but condition isn't. It needs some work cosmetically, both on the interior and exterior. Damage on carfax was from a scrape on the rear bumper while parked, so that's been repainted. Both the front bumper and hood will need some paintwork to get them back to condition - it clearly has Baltimore battlescars. Various scratches all around the car, 80-90% will be fixed through a two stage paint correction.

Also, I've noticed that even with low mileage cars, the interior plastics BMW had during this generation were absolute trash and wear like shit, and so many cars look beat up now - and this one is no exception. Someone also tried to dye/repair the driver seat leather and did an awful job. As with the paint correction and bodywork it is something I can fix but it's yet another time/expense to add in.

Weirdly, the car also has "rudeboi" sound system, again added by the original owner (2 subs and an amp in the trunk). I know a bit about car stereo and it is definitely a professional job with quality products, $2k+ probably but it doesn't appeal to me at all and I'd def remove and sell it.

Overall, I didn't get the "vibe". It didn't necessarily fail my smell test, but the laundry list of stuff I'd have to fix on it to dial it in to my spec is too much for the price.

I'm in no rush so maybe the seller will accept my offer as anyone who views the car (vs the pics) and will have the same concerns as me. More than likely, I'll just wait a while for the right car to show up