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      08-16-2019, 01:55 PM   #23
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At $39k that Texas E92 is a great deal, why the LOL?

I've found consumables to be pretty mellow on my E92. With The PF Z54 big brake kit I've been running the same race pads going on two sessions now and they still have tons of life, I've been through two sets of pads in the rear though on the stock setup. If you run Pireli DH take offs those last a handful of track days typically and are cheap to buy.

I've considered moving to a more purposeful track car, but not sure it will actually be any funner to drive without spending more money. Car's I've considered, buying one already in close spec - not building:

- Caymen race car of some sort. Still pretty low on power/speed.
- GT4 or GT4 clubsport. Probably pretty awesome, but performance is likely similar to prepping the E92 to a similar level (getting all the extra weight out and adding a cage).
- E46 M3 track prepped. At this point It's still likely cheaper to just pull the weight out of my E92 and likely faster.
- GT3RS. Spend way more money, go faster, wonder if I should have spent that much money on a car.

I have the truck, been looking at a trailer for a while. Just not sure if I keep in the E92 or if a move to something else is really worth it.
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      08-18-2019, 08:33 AM   #24
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The PFC Z54 kit is pure win!
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      08-19-2019, 10:58 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
The PFC Z54 kit is pure win!
PFC stuff looks pretty nice, and you do see it on lots of Porsche Cup cars, but does their BBK lock you in with using only their pads? PFC pads are not known for being cost-effective.

One thing I liked about the StopTechs was they used a common Porsche 911 pad shape so you could run literally any compound you want. Even the Essex/AP and Brembo kits seem to have tons of choices.
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      08-19-2019, 11:16 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
PFC stuff looks pretty nice, and you do see it on lots of Porsche Cup cars, but does their BBK lock you in with using only their pads? PFC pads are not known for being cost-effective.

One thing I liked about the StopTechs was they used a common Porsche 911 pad shape so you could run literally any compound you want. Even the Essex/AP and Brembo kits seem to have tons of choices.
I haven't tried to buy a different pad, I don't see why you'd be limited to only running PFC pads though.

The PFC11 compound is wonderful. In the AP Radical brake (I know as I have them as well) the front PFC11 compound pad for the AP is ~600 whereas the same pad is ~300 for the PFC BBK
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      08-19-2019, 09:10 PM   #27
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I'm still building my E46 M3 as a dedicated track car.

I'll admit...it's a PIA trailering the car. I'm trying to figure out the whole enclosed trailer thing. It will be awesome someday. I can store my crap in it to include the car and it can serve as shelter. But right now...lots of money and work to get there.

Trying to maintain a safe and reliable dual duty car is too much work. I'd rather screw with loading the car into the trailer at the end of the day vs loading up all of my crap.

My goal with my e46 is lightness and lowered running costs. I'm happy with that...my fuel consumption is down 25%, brakes are lasting twice as long and tires don't really cord...they heat cycle out.

The only bugger is it's tough to figure out the car when you've taken a lot of weight out. Sure, I could pay someone but then I learn very little. So far, haven't really dialed the car in. It's so different than when I ran it in 2013-2015. I've just figured out what my consumables are...kinda.

I'm on the fence. It's rewarding that I've done everything single thing on the car myself except for installing the windshield and rear window. It's also kinda frustrating because I'm not getting the performance I'm expecting. Part driver issues, parts inconsistent tire setups, part some stuff is getting old (i.e. shocks from 2011).
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      08-19-2019, 10:02 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Can we discuss some of the budgeting considerations for an E90/E92 M3 track car?
ugh....this conversation is far too complicated.

Here's what you do: Spend ALL your money on making a track car. All of it. All the money. DONE.

Next topic?

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      08-26-2019, 07:03 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montaver View Post
Personally I wouldn't build a fully stripped track car that required trailing just for HPDE, although I can see the appeal. May as well just stick to as streetable track car like Shadow mentioned above. You could even do all the listed mod's except the seats and just run Quick Fit Pro's.

I would however love to build one for NASA TT, racing, BMW CCA racing etc. It would probably be between an E46 or E92 depending on race classes.
I've run stock seats with quick fit pro and now fixed backs with 6 point harnesses and it's night and day difference. So much so that I'm now of the opinion that seats and harnesses should be the 3rd mod after brakes and tires for anyone doing more than 3-4 events per year. The increase in car control is immense. And of course there's the added safety benefit as well. And I guess it depends on personal tolerance (and age lol), but at 28 years old I daily'd my M3 with deeply bolstered fixed backs (OMP First R) for about a year and the only real inconvenience I experienced was not being able to hold something in my hand(s) while getting in/out of the car (so you just have to walk around to the passenger seat).
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      08-26-2019, 07:44 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
A nice thing about not going nuts is that when you want to move to a different car/platform you can take the car back to stock and sell it, then sell the mods separately.

For basic track upgrades you can do what I had on the E92 M3:
MCS 2WNR 5k
Front PFC BBK Z54 4k (rear you can keep the stock caliper/rotor with the same compound as the front)
Sparco Ergo seats with removable halos 2k
BK Harness bar and seat mounting hardware 1k
Catless Bimmerworld Xpipe 1k
Engine tune 1k
Square 10.5" ET22 or ET27 wheels 1.4k
Bimmerworld front thrust bearing $400

So, 5+4+2+1+1+1+1.4+0.4 = 15.8

You don't have to do any cooling upgrades if you are manual unless you want to run a slick.
If the car is DCT for sure you need the cooling package from do88 and probable also do the slonik DCT pan. Figure 3k for all that.

For maintenance, the car lasts almost forever with oil changes every 5k miles, 6MT changes every 15k miles (no changes if you are DCT), diff fluid changes every 15k.

Of course the car should get rod bearings before it starts tracking unless they have been done already.
I very much echo everything Shadow has said with the exception that I would (and did) personally skip the tune and put that money towards solid rear subframe and diff bushings (plus I'm very much on a budget lol).

I'm running a very similar setup to Shadow currently and I love where the car is at:

KW Clubsport 2 way
Stoptech ST40 front BBK
SPL front thrust arms
delrin engine/tranny mounts
solid metal subframe/diff bushings
OMP seats
BK harness bar
catless xpipe
18x10 square +25 with 15mm spacers
200tw tires

No cooling upgrades yet aside from hood vents which actually made a significant difference (~10*F lower max oil temps). Being in the southeast, I do run into periodic issues with the DCT slowing down shifts when I'm 20 minutes into a session in the dead of summer with 95*+ ambient temps. I've only had a water temp warning maybe 3 times ever. But I will definitely do the do88 upgrade at some point.

I feel like those mods listed above were just the right amount to barely cross over the plane into "full track car" territory with respect to handling.

The car is currently at 163k miles and other than the above listed mods, all other bushings and parts are still original OEM, so I would give a big kudos to the ///M team for fitting the car with actual parts built to take a beating and I would say that I haven't had to budget at all for stock parts breaking under the abuse at the track. Not to say that it won't/can't happen, but that's my experience so far.

Actually one time I was on the way to a track event and an 18 wheeler had a full blowout right next to me and his entire tread ripped off and shot out right in front of my car and I had no way to avoid it and the tread basically belly flopped on my hood/front bumper and then slid under and i ran over it. And if you've never physically picked up an 18 wheeler tread, you'd be surprised at just how massive/stout they really are. It dented my hood, cracked my bumper, busted a headlight, and dented my oil cooler a bit, however - considering how beefy that tread was and the fact I hit it gong 75-80mph - I'm very surprised there wasn't more damage to the front/underside. And after a thorough inspection, I continued on the the track event and had no issues.
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      08-26-2019, 01:11 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogbone View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Can we discuss some of the budgeting considerations for an E90/E92 M3 track car?
ugh....this conversation is far too complicated.

Here's what you do: Spend ALL your money on making a track car. All of it. All the money. DONE.

Next topic?

That's your shortest post ever! :
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      08-26-2019, 01:17 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
That's your shortest post ever! :
C'mon----don't lie-----you know you go and re-read my entire differential write up just to get you through Monday mornings at the office!!!
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      08-27-2019, 03:39 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3MPH1S View Post
I've run stock seats with quick fit pro and now fixed backs with 6 point harnesses and it's night and day difference. So much so that I'm now of the opinion that seats and harnesses should be the 3rd mod after brakes and tires for anyone doing more than 3-4 events per year. The increase in car control is immense. And of course there's the added safety benefit as well. And I guess it depends on personal tolerance (and age lol), but at 28 years old I daily'd my M3 with deeply bolstered fixed backs (OMP First R) for about a year and the only real inconvenience I experienced was not being able to hold something in my hand(s) while getting in/out of the car (so you just have to walk around to the passenger seat).
Yea stock seats and QFP sucks. I've been running them for most of this season, and am quite excited for the half cage, seats, and harness upgrade to get done. Fighting to control (and feel) the car and your own body is counterproductive to say the least.
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      08-28-2019, 11:44 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartledoo View Post
Yea stock seats and QFP sucks. I've been running them for most of this season, and am quite excited for the half cage, seats, and harness upgrade to get done. Fighting to control (and feel) the car and your own body is counterproductive to say the least.
This has not been my experience. I have no issues staying locked down in my seat and don't even have to think about it, it's a huge upgrade over the stock belts. Proper fixed back racing seats would be better obviously as they are generally firmer and will improve feel through the seat, but for a car which see's double duty the QFP's are perfectly serviceable. I'm in the market for an F80 but its the inability to install QFP's which are a huge negative against it.
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      08-29-2019, 12:29 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montaver View Post
This has not been my experience. I have no issues staying locked down in my seat and don't even have to think about it, it's a huge upgrade over the stock belts. Proper fixed back racing seats would be better obviously as they are generally firmer and will improve feel through the seat, but for a car which see's double duty the QFP's are perfectly serviceable. I'm in the market for an F80 but its the inability to install QFP's which are a huge negative against it.
Too slow
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      09-12-2019, 11:48 PM   #36
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I'm sorry but there is no cheap solution for the motorsport. You can get e36 for 3-5K now, but in a few years you'll turn it into 20-30K adventure. It's fun, but it's pricey. And more you track - more expensive it becomes. So if you are concerned about budget I would recommend e36 or e46. e92 platform is going to cost you much more.
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      09-13-2019, 08:00 AM   #37
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Winding Road Racing always posts cars that get me very close to pulling the trigger.
https://showroom.windingroad.com/listings/product/4595/
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      09-13-2019, 09:07 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiognome View Post
I'm sorry but there is no cheap solution for the motorsport. You can get e36 for 3-5K now, but in a few years you'll turn it into 20-30K adventure. It's fun, but it's pricey. And more you track - more expensive it becomes. So if you are concerned about budget I would recommend e36 or e46. e92 platform is going to cost you much more.
I've owned both and tracked both

I think a lightly modded E9X will be the same speed as the 'track car' E36/46 with minimal mods and reliability that is an order of magnitude higher than the older cars.

People focus a lot on '40 dollar brakes' on their E36 or whatever but then when the diff gets torn clean off the car and you have to pay 4k to put it back in, well, they kind of forget that

You would have to pay me massive amounts of money to own a E36/46 track car. Been there, done that, never again.
The E36 and E46 chassis is licensed from Haribo because it is made out of friggin gummy bears.



I am quite confident that if you plot lap time vs expense the E9X comes out on top.
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      09-13-2019, 09:09 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montaver View Post
This has not been my experience. I have no issues staying locked down in my seat and don't even have to think about it, it's a huge upgrade over the stock belts. Proper fixed back racing seats would be better obviously as they are generally firmer and will improve feel through the seat, but for a car which see's double duty the QFP's are perfectly serviceable. I'm in the market for an F80 but its the inability to install QFP's which are a huge negative against it.
when you move from 3 points to the QFP you feel your life has changed forever

That's because the QFP are *way* better than the 3 points

However, as you continue advancing you will get to the point where a 4 point requires knee pads, etc.

Still, a 2:09.1 at WGI with QFPs is pretty damn good in my book, so it does 'work' and I will always think it's the perfect balance of speed/safety and hassle.
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      09-13-2019, 09:15 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jid2 View Post
At $39k that Texas E92 is a great deal, why the LOL?

I've found consumables to be pretty mellow on my E92. With The PF Z54 big brake kit I've been running the same race pads going on two sessions now and they still have tons of life, I've been through two sets of pads in the rear though on the stock setup. If you run Pireli DH take offs those last a handful of track days typically and are cheap to buy.

I've considered moving to a more purposeful track car, but not sure it will actually be any funner to drive without spending more money. Car's I've considered, buying one already in close spec - not building:

- Caymen race car of some sort. Still pretty low on power/speed.
- GT4 or GT4 clubsport. Probably pretty awesome, but performance is likely similar to prepping the E92 to a similar level (getting all the extra weight out and adding a cage).
- E46 M3 track prepped. At this point It's still likely cheaper to just pull the weight out of my E92 and likely faster.
- GT3RS. Spend way more money, go faster, wonder if I should have spent that much money on a car.

I have the truck, been looking at a trailer for a while. Just not sure if I keep in the E92 or if a move to something else is really worth it.

Unless you like small tracks, the Cayman race car is still slow as hell. Full out Cayman Cup cars with pirelli DHs can be taken out by a street driven E9X with RE71rs without the slightest problem
GT4 is also quite slow. I've been tracking for many years and ran across over a hundred of them for sure, never found a fast one. Gearing is stupidly long and mid engined is a lot harder to drive fast than all the Excel spreadsheet keyboard warriors think it is.
Also agree in your E46 vs E9X comparison
The GT3 RS should definitely be faster, but will it be more fun? Those cars completely lack adjustability at the limit and when you make a mistake as a driver they put you straight into the wall. And it had better be a 991 generation car if you expect a delta in speed

One thing you don't have on your list is the F8X. Considerably faster than the E9X, exactly the same wonderful driving dynamics, can be bought for 40k

Last edited by SYT_Shadow; 09-13-2019 at 01:33 PM..
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      09-13-2019, 10:08 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartledoo View Post
Yea stock seats and QFP sucks. I've been running them for most of this season, and am quite excited for the half cage, seats, and harness upgrade to get done. Fighting to control (and feel) the car and your own body is counterproductive to say the least.
I'll take the QFPs off your hands for a reasonable price.

Stock seats and QFP may not be a huge improvement but it's still better than stock seats alone.
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      09-13-2019, 01:25 PM   #42
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I'll take the QFPs off your hands for a reasonable price.

Stock seats and QFP may not be a huge improvement but it's still better than stock seats alone.
Don't get me wrong, the QFP is definitely a huge improvement, but you quickly realize it still sucks when you pick up speed. I have had a rash from where the buckle grinds my lower abdomen for a couple months, and as SYT said there is a lot of elbow and knee bracing going on.

As soon as I get a half cage and harnesses over winter the QFP's will be for sale for a reasonable price.
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      09-15-2019, 08:52 PM   #43
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So - why is front BBK a must have on the list... I realize our cars are quite heavy, but is the factory system with the right pads, SS lines and fluid really that inadequate?

I just recently sold a very well built e36 M3 to begin building my E92.... my list was pretty similar to ones shared here, and I'm targeting around 12-15k before it's actually "ready" to get torn up around a track - but I didn't have BBK on that list....

Enlighten me? 😇

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      09-15-2019, 09:24 PM   #44
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Would you consider an insurance auction car? I've always thought you could find a track dedicated car for a good value if it comes with a salvage title, if it's not going to be registered or insured anyway you'll save a bunch of moolah if you can pick one that's serviceable.. obviously you won't be concerned with a little body damage.. just frame work.
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