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      08-09-2019, 05:50 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Are you a member of this group?
https://www.facebook.com/groups/680392535693234/

Louis Gigliotti bought a container full of them and has been posting a lot of great feedback and data on laptimes from his race cars.
Yup!! Iím a member of the group. Just a lot of posts in there so I havenít gone through many of the posts other than when some of my friends post/comment. Iíll have to search for Louís posts. Thanks!
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      08-09-2019, 06:06 PM   #46
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Great article. Thanks for posting.

I have been hearing good things about the AR1 and am excited to give them a try. The only problem with me is that everything I have is for sale so my testing is somewhat dependent upon nobody buying the wheels/tires prior to my next track day.
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      08-09-2019, 06:10 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slicer View Post
SAI - SuperAlloy Engineering makes these wheels for BMW. Upon researching the company I believe they only make forged wheels (therefore these are forged). SAI makes forged wheels and forged suspension parts for OEM's like BMW, Audi, Porsche, Mercedes, and Ferrari. It is a Tiawanese company.

http://superalloyengineering.com/company/profile/
Good info, thanks. Makes me wonder if these are the guys doing contract work & private labeling for all of the forged wheels these small "bespoke" wheel companies suddenly have.
The word is that some of them are having the wheels made by a big-rig-truck wheel manufacturer. I don't think SAI is the company in question.
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      08-10-2019, 09:22 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slicer View Post
Sorry I just saw this post. My answers below.



You are welcome - happy to help when I can. It's not the caliper that's the issue. It's the suspension. Based on my research I believe only a 12mm spacer is needed with a 295. However I will know more after I do some testing. I will test on my e92. The e92 and the f8x have very similar front fitment / space.


You are welcome. The RIA is not being discontinued as far as I know.



RIA is an amazing bang for buck IMO.
if it is only a 12 mm spacer than at an effective offset of +18 then its not as bad but these are 11s. Well lookng to see how the test fit goes on your E92.

So I ended up going with a set of TE37s for now. I do plan on ordering a set of RIAs either in Diamond Black or Silver next spring in square size. The offsets are more conservative than the GT4 wheels but they still have a very similar look.
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      08-11-2019, 10:58 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Astro_train View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by slicer View Post
Sorry I just saw this post. My answers below.



You are welcome - happy to help when I can. It's not the caliper that's the issue. It's the suspension. Based on my research I believe only a 12mm spacer is needed with a 295. However I will know more after I do some testing. I will test on my e92. The e92 and the f8x have very similar front fitment / space.


You are welcome. The RIA is not being discontinued as far as I know.



RIA is an amazing bang for buck IMO.
if it is only a 12 mm spacer than at an effective offset of +18 then its not as bad but these are 11s. Well lookng to see how the test fit goes on your E92.

So I ended up going with a set of TE37s for now. I do plan on ordering a set of RIAs either in Diamond Black or Silver next spring in square size. The offsets are more conservative than the GT4 wheels but they still have a very similar look.
Please allow plenty of time for an RIA special order color. At best it takes me 2 months to get them (if in stock in Japan). At worst 6 months if they need to be produced.

I did an initial test fit of the GT4 wheels last night. 12mm front spacers are sufficient.
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      08-14-2019, 11:20 AM   #50
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GT4 Wheels are on the car! They look fantastic and fitment appears to be a success.

Unique Wheel Property -
This wheel has a back pad that is 15mm thicker than anything that I have seen. As a result, the stud required is at least 15mm longer than typical. There is no stud currently on the market that will accommodate this wheel with a 12mm spacer. BMW's own GT4 studs are designed to accommodate a 32mm spacer - yes you read that correctly - BMW is using a 32mm front spacer on the M4GT4! I am not sure why the wheel was built with that spec but my assumption is that it's due to strength requirements. As a result, we are working with MSI (leading stud manufacturer) to create a custom stud length for this wheel.

GT4 by slicerM, on Flickr
GT4 by slicerM, on Flickr
GT4 by slicerM, on Flickr

GT4 by slicerM, on Flickr

GT4 by slicerM, on Flickr
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      08-14-2019, 12:30 PM   #51
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damn that fitment is meaty as hell. i really like how those wheel sit.
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      08-14-2019, 03:27 PM   #52
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How many sheets of paper are you from the strut with a 12
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      08-14-2019, 04:03 PM   #53
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Sidewalls look good on them fattys.
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      08-14-2019, 04:07 PM   #54
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Soo, how much spacer is required to clear the strut? 12mm? so that would equal a 27mm spacer on a normal BMW spec wheel...hmm yah longest stud kit available is 90mm, and OEM length equivalent would be 62mm. that gives you a margin of 28mm on the 90mm stud, so seems like it would work...
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      08-14-2019, 04:11 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
How many sheets of paper are you from the strut with a 12
3mm to 4mm plus this tire has a rim protector that protrudes 5mm. I may only need a 10mm spacer with a tire that doesn't have a rim protector

Pics:

GT4 fitment by slicerM, on Flickr
GT4 fitment by slicerM, on Flickr
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      08-14-2019, 04:46 PM   #56
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Quote:
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How many sheets of paper are you from the strut with a 12
On my 18x11's, an effective offset of 22 is exactly zero clearance to the KW strut... So I would guess the 4mm quoted earlier is accurate. I ran with the ET22 setup for a while and have a nice little polished spot on the strut body to show for it. Added 2mm of spacer and all good now.
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      08-14-2019, 04:50 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFCM3 View Post
Soo, how much spacer is required to clear the strut? 12mm? so that would equal a 27mm spacer on a normal BMW spec wheel...hmm yah longest stud kit available is 90mm, and OEM length equivalent would be 62mm. that gives you a margin of 28mm on the 90mm stud, so seems like it would work...
First of all I will say I am only considering high quality racing studs.

90mm is the longest offered from the brands that I have considered.

A 90mm stud is 90mm long including the threads into the hub PLUS the shoulder PLUS the threads used for the nut PLUS the bullet nose.

The key dimension is the threads available from the face of the rotor to the end of the threads. On a 90mm stud from MSI that number totals 52mm. On BW's race studs that number totals 56mm IIRC. You rightly stated that the minimum needed is approximately 62mm (with a 12.5mm spacer) if you want a thread or two extra - which is wise IMO.

Therefore I will be having special studs made with 65mm of thread from face of rotor hat.
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      08-14-2019, 06:03 PM   #58
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Makes sense, i have dealt with lug nuts ripped off of studs in my shop due to a large spacer being used, its an ugly scenario. Definately want to make sure there are a few more than enough threads on the stud. I am constantly advising that people do proper research before throwing spacers onto a car, but not everybody listens or understands.
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      08-14-2019, 06:18 PM   #59
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FYI guys, the just-announced Apex 18x11 forged wheels will be offered in ET29 and probably won’t have an absurdly thick back pad (in case anybody saw slicer’s pics and was still digging for their wallet)

And you can have them in not-black
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      08-14-2019, 06:24 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
FYI guys, the just-announced Apex 18x11 forged wheels will be offered in ET29 and probably wonít have an absurdly thick back pad (in case anybody saw slicerís pics and was still digging for their wallet)

And you can have them in not-black
i saw that! too bad they are not including the 18x11 in the pre-order group buy, would have made for a very cool option at a smokin deal.
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      08-14-2019, 06:39 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFCM3 View Post
Makes sense, i have dealt with lug nuts ripped off of studs in my shop due to a large spacer being used, its an ugly scenario. Definately want to make sure there are a few more than enough threads on the stud. I am constantly advising that people do proper research before throwing spacers onto a car, but not everybody listens or understands.
Exactly- the other thing I am going to do - and recommend- is an M14 stud conversion utilizing Future Classic's F80 hub retrofit kit. I think it's prudent to go to an M14 stud given the stud length. Although another thing I discovered in my M4 GT4 research is that they actually use studs that are M14 into the hub but step down to M12 outside the hub.
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      08-14-2019, 06:52 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
FYI guys, the just-announced Apex 18x11 forged wheels will be offered in ET29 and probably won't have an absurdly thick back pad (in case anybody saw slicer's pics and was still digging for their wallet)

And you can have them in not-black
I saw that. I am really digging the new Arc8R!.

That being said, I would like to think there is a strength benefit to the thicker back-pad. The GT4 wheels are slightly lighter (less than 1 lb which is negligible). Then there's the fact that the GT4 wheels are an OE racing product- which brings with it the factory testing that only BMW can afford. Lastly I think that these wheels simply look fantastic.
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      08-15-2019, 11:11 AM   #63
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Or...it's a race part which could mean they weight-optimized it and figure the race teams will replace with regularity - that thick back pad means a lot of that 20.3lb isn't in the spokes or barrel. But it's also pretty much the standard "as light as possible GT car" split-5 wheel design, so maybe that's most of the difference

I trust BMW Motorsport to field a quality competition product, but I don't trust them to give us stuff that lasts forever especially when individual GT4 teams are buying 5-6 sets of wheels *a year* due to carnage, long races means tire changes, flats destroying wheels yada

It looks like the Apex 18x11 will cost right around the same - $600-650 each.
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      08-15-2019, 12:32 PM   #64
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I'm with Richbot on this. A racing team has very different priorities from TT or HPDE guys. These teams want wheels that will last for the duration of the race (or maybe race weekend). They also have lots of spares and the means to get them quickly/easily, and the budget to support that.

Also, it is likely optimized for that specific car's load and handling capabilities. What is the load rating? Is a heavily modified M3 track car going to develop more cornering forces than the M4 GT4?

It's still going to be a very solid wheel, don't get me wrong.
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      08-15-2019, 10:03 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
Or...it's a race part which could mean they weight-optimized it and figure the race teams will replace with regularity - that thick back pad means a lot of that 20.3lb isn't in the spokes or barrel. But it's also pretty much the standard "as light as possible GT car" split-5 wheel design, so maybe that's most of the difference
This isn't the case based on my visual inspection. The back pad has extensive pocketing between the lug openings to minimize its weight. From what I have seen and know, race teams are not replacing wheels regularly. They are pounding on them all season and replacing as needed. The don't want a spindly, cheap wheel that fails to save a little weight.. They want something that is reliable - because if it fails they lose and possibly crash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
I trust BMW Motorsport to field a quality competition product, but I don't trust them to give us stuff that lasts forever especially when individual GT4 teams are buying 5-6 sets of wheels *a year* due to carnage, long races means tire changes, flats destroying wheels yada

It looks like the Apex 18x11 will cost right around the same - $600-650 each.
I don't unequivocally trust BMW as they have proven to fail us (rod bearings are a great example). But, I simply do not agree with your assessment that race teams accept wheels as a throw away. They want strength and durability... then light weight. I don't see weight trumping the others.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
I'm with Richbot on this. A racing team has very different priorities from TT or HPDE guys. These teams want wheels that will last for the duration of the race (or maybe race weekend). They also have lots of spares and the means to get them quickly/easily, and the budget to support that.

Also, it is likely optimized for that specific car's load and handling capabilities. What is the load rating? Is a heavily modified M3 track car going to develop more cornering forces than the M4 GT4?

It's still going to be a very solid wheel, don't get me wrong.
It's no secret that I have a relationship with BBS and in general have a philosophy of focusing on quality, proven brands. I am willing to pay more for quality and my buying decisions support that. That philosophy has served me well. Particularly in the wheel department. I bring up BBS because, in my workings with them, I know that race teams are not going through wheels at a rapid pace. They are buying quality that lasts the season. Yes, there are always things that occur, crashes, impacts, etc. However the demands that a high level race team is putting on a set of wheels is infinitely higher than any of us amateurs are submitting them through. Just think of how many DE events (with a few 20 minute sessions) that you would need to attend to equal a pro race season - including testing, qualifying, practice, and racing.

It's the opposite of what you are saying IMO. Many people on this forum buy cheap wheels thinking that "it's just a track wheel" "It's going to get trashed anyway". Professional Race teams don't think that way. They want the very best products that they can rely on. There are of course exceptions. Teams have budgets, and sometimes settle for a sponsorship deal for a product that isn't their first choice.

Is the GT4 wheel the best, strongest, ultimate track wheel? I don't know. I don't have experience with the manufacturer (SAI) but they seem to have a solid resume. Based on what I have seen so far it has potential to be a winner. Especially for the money. I am all for healthy discussion on the forum. Please don't take my responses as anything but sharing of thoughts, findings, and opinions. I would like to think that most of my opinions are based on some logic, research, and testing. I do my best in that regard.
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Last edited by slicer; 08-15-2019 at 10:11 PM..
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      08-15-2019, 10:28 PM   #66
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I think you’re overestimating the professionalism of most GT4 drivers
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