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      10-30-2016, 01:53 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surlynkid
Can you idiots shut up and get this back on point for dbyrd's brake duct reviews.

Can the mods please delete the recent posts that just fill up a good thread with garbage.

For those that think their brakes cannot heat up fast enough, can I please get a show of hands of drivers here with a competition license from a major sanctioning body AND actually race an E9x M3. I can come in with smoke pouring off both front rotors and want all the cooling I can get. A full course yellow in a DE almost always switches to black and an ended session.

For those that need to keep the hose on for some street driving, the Turner Motorsports steering rack stops help. I have them, but the downside is that you will make a lot of 3 point turns (or worse) into tight turns. They are cheap and easy to install.
I smoke them too. Was just wondering what good the ducting is if you aren't smoking them. Lol.
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      10-30-2016, 09:33 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by M3 Number 86 View Post
I smoke them too. Was just wondering what good the ducting is if you aren't smoking them. Lol.
Even if your brakes aren't smoking, ducts will help keep your temps in check and your pads will last longer. Plus, it doesn't take a lot of get heats into the brakes and its not very tricky. Not like trying to get heat into conti scrubs on a cold day.

Wouldn't do it on my E90...but the ducting allows me to run the Stoptech Street pads in cooler temps on my E46. They keep the pads temps in a reasonable range that prevents them from transforming into a useless brick of pad material. I wouldn't even think about it without the ducts.

If you route the ducts carefully, you can go lock to lock without tearing up the hoses. If you do wear a hole in the hose...just fix it with some duct tape. I think DDing with brake ducts is doable. I might be concerned about rain...probably not an issue especially if the brakes are warm/hot.
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      10-30-2016, 09:52 PM   #91
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is the help with pad life pretty significant? that alone would make it worth getting some ducting setup. i haven't had any problems at the track. the brakes stay consistent when hot, but if i could get better performance and longer pad life, thats a win-win.
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      10-31-2016, 12:37 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Number 86 View Post
I smoke them too. Was just wondering what good the ducting is if you aren't smoking them. Lol.
Even if your brakes aren't smoking, ducts will help keep your temps in check and your pads will last longer. Plus, it doesn't take a lot of get heats into the brakes and its not very tricky. Not like trying to get heat into conti scrubs on a cold day.

Wouldn't do it on my E90...but the ducting allows me to run the Stoptech Street pads in cooler temps on my E46. They keep the pads temps in a reasonable range that prevents them from transforming into a useless brick of pad material. I wouldn't even think about it without the ducts.

If you route the ducts carefully, you can go lock to lock without tearing up the hoses. If you do wear a hole in the hose...just fix it with some duct tape. I think DDing with brake ducts is doable. I might be concerned about rain...probably not an issue especially if the brakes are warm/hot.
I'm aware of the benefits of brake ducts. But I think we can mostly agree that your level of skill is the end determining factor. I'm not an awesome driver but I think I'm decent and I know that my particular car has way more potential than I do as a driver.

That's all I was pointing out. I do understand that mods give a person more confidence and can make that person drive better. It's a continuous black hole and we have an addict thread for that lols. But at the same time I see dudes who never tracked before with full aero packages talking about how they can feel the downforce working on turn x failing to realize a stock car could have handled that turn easily at those speeds.

I get it though - people have their own preferences and mine is just that - a preference and opinion. But you know what people hammered into me when I was starting out or when looking to the fastest drivers along this path - maximize the car and your skill. And that's stuck with me. But to each their own.

The smoking brakes wasn't an achievement to call out it rather that it can and does happen. But I'll be damned if I was the guy who needed it because I was coasting on brakes too much or just over braking in general.

That's what I learned from being on this forum.
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      10-31-2016, 10:21 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
is the help with pad life pretty significant? that alone would make it worth getting some ducting setup. i haven't had any problems at the track. the brakes stay consistent when hot, but if i could get better performance and longer pad life, thats a win-win.
I don't have enough data to determine how much the ducts helped. I think it is significant enough to justify the $200 for the ducting in my E46 M3. I wouldn't drop $300 on CF backing plates and another $300 on a kit. I honestly don't understand that but to each their own.

I'm getting about 5 weekends on a set of front pads in my E46. If I had to guess, I think I can get 6-7 with the ducting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Number 86 View Post
I'm aware of the benefits of brake ducts. But I think we can mostly agree that your level of skill is the end determining factor. I'm not an awesome driver but I think I'm decent and I know that my particular car has way more potential than I do as a driver.

That's all I was pointing out. I do understand that mods give a person more confidence and can make that person drive better. It's a continuous black hole and we have an addict thread for that lols. But at the same time I see dudes who never tracked before with full aero packages talking about how they can feel the downforce working on turn x failing to realize a stock car could have handled that turn easily at those speeds.

I get it though - people have their own preferences and mine is just that - a preference and opinion. But you know what people hammered into me when I was starting out or when looking to the fastest drivers along this path - maximize the car and your skill. And that's stuck with me. But to each their own.

The smoking brakes wasn't an achievement to call out it rather that it can and does happen. But I'll be damned if I was the guy who needed it because I was coasting on brakes too much or just over braking in general.

That's what I learned from being on this forum.
I'm all about modding the driver vs dropping $$$ to make yourself look fast. But I would consider brake ducting a smart reliability related mod in every case for an E9X M3. I also agree...before you come in with plumes of smoke radiating from your brakes, may want to consider other techniques and new skills to find other ways to make it around the track quickly.

Threshold braking is important for a beginner. What drives me nuts is hopping into an advanced student's car and they still just hammer away at the brakes into every damned turn. That just tells me that they don't get it. A really good driver will drive just as fast a lap using up less brakes, tires, and fuel.

The simple fact is...brakes never make the car go faster. So braking harder and harder just makes the car go slower and slower because the car is no longer maximizing traction at all 4 corners. I guess you can go buy better coilovers with stiffer springs and a $4000+ 2 way diff which will make the car better. A much easier way is to find ways to maintain momentum through the turn and get back to the throttle sooner.
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      10-31-2016, 10:34 PM   #94
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Thanks, I might have my fab guy build some custom backing plates that fit inside of the rotors.
One thing that comes to mind is if the rotors are better off without backing plates... like instead of the entire rotor being exposed, it would now only be fed air through the ducts. Is less air (but more focused) as efficient as more air all over the place?
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      11-01-2016, 02:51 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
Thanks, I might have my fab guy build some custom backing plates that fit inside of the rotors.
One thing that comes to mind is if the rotors are better off without backing plates... like instead of the entire rotor being exposed, it would now only be fed air through the ducts. Is less air (but more focused) as efficient as more air all over the place?
The ducts should direct air towards the rotor hat which will increase flow through the vanes between the friction surfaces. So you get some heat dissipation on both sides of each surface which is one of the advantages of a rotor like ST's aero rotor vs a solid hunk of iron.
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      11-01-2016, 06:45 PM   #96
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Porsche GT3 front duct. Simple and probably effective. Can't be that hard to make.



DIY on a Cayanne: http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/c...ake-ducts.html

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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      11-01-2016, 07:22 PM   #97
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^ thats one of the things i had in mind. i love that porsche already proved the concept.

my fab guy could make something similar very easily with aluminum. the only downside i see would be if the scoops are aggressive, they would completely water blast the rotors in the rain. making them removable shouldn't be a big deal though.
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      11-03-2016, 10:09 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
^ thats one of the things i had in mind. i love that porsche already proved the concept.

my fab guy could make something similar very easily with aluminum. the only downside i see would be if the scoops are aggressive, they would completely water blast the rotors in the rain. making them removable shouldn't be a big deal though.
Do it and sell a small batch for a few to try here to try.
Could be a nice side business??
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      11-03-2016, 10:37 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by roastbeef View Post
^ thats one of the things i had in mind. i love that porsche already proved the concept.

my fab guy could make something similar very easily with aluminum. the only downside i see would be if the scoops are aggressive, they would completely water blast the rotors in the rain. making them removable shouldn't be a big deal though.
Do it and sell a small batch for a few to try here to try.
Could be a nice side business??
Sure. I'll post pics of the progress. Same dude that did my track rack.
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      11-05-2016, 07:18 AM   #100
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Main problem I see wkthgetting the Porsche part to work is our control arm is a lot twistier

But at $20 a pop per side or thereabouts I still think I'm going to try it one of these days.
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      11-05-2016, 07:21 AM   #101
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More apex/exit speed = the same problem you had before but even worse because k=1/2mv^2 and you spent less time cooling off because you spent less time on the straight. Easy to make a car turn a fast lap, not so easy to make one turn 50 in a row at night in the rain flat out

That speed-energy correlation is why when people who are good, experienced drivers who can get the best apex/exit speeds out of a car drive these cars on track one of the the first things they bitch about when they come in after a session is the brakes, they give you really high hopes with their street performance because honestly it might be the best brake system outside of a Porsche anywhere especially in software and how it tolerates oh shit moments/low grip/odd tire sizes and just works. Amazingly capable system that can only reach its potential for a handful of laps before it shits the bed. Gives me the sads.

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      11-05-2016, 09:12 AM   #102
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Quote:
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Main problem I see wkthgetting the Porsche part to work is our control arm is a lot twistier

But at $20 a pop per side or thereabouts I still think I'm going to try it one of these days.
I'll have him build custom scoops from aluminum. Maybe secure it to the oem shield.
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      11-05-2016, 09:50 AM   #103
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Yikes don't do that the knuckle moves independent from the control arm or are you saying just hang something off the stock splash guard?

This is making me want to buy a 3D printer

Fave setup I have seen is the c5 Vette part it's like a flattened ABS plastic tube that turns inward toward the rotor hat by where the Luca mounts and then picks up air from up front and the flattened part of the tube doesn't eat tire/steering lock clearance

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      11-05-2016, 05:25 PM   #104
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I'm talking about the dust shield. I'm just thinking out loud. Gotta get under the car and turn the wheel and see where we have room.
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      11-05-2016, 07:54 PM   #105
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I think the dust shield already had a little scoop on it but it's up high
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      11-05-2016, 07:56 PM   #106
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I have to look. I had a busy weekend and forgot to look under the car.
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      11-30-2016, 09:22 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
Porsche GT3 front duct. Simple and probably effective. Can't be that hard to make.

DIY on a Cayanne: http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/c...ake-ducts.html

.
I saw the Porsche scoop recently which inspired me to bodge these up on my e36.
Seems to work and they even survived an offroading expedition to the sand trap.



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      11-30-2016, 09:44 PM   #108
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I'm using the GT4 Splitter with Bimmerworld carbon backing plates with mishimoto hose ducts.
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      12-01-2016, 08:04 AM   #109
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I'm using the GT4 Splitter with Bimmerworld carbon backing plates with mishimoto hose ducts.
Pics please! And do you have a part number on the GT4 splitter?
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      12-01-2016, 08:51 AM   #110
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I'll see if I can find pics.

But I've had 4 GT4 lips. I've had the mode carbon, the volkommen (plus a backup), the one banned member Meza01 was selling and an ebay one.

They will eventually break/crack so don't waste $$ on the RKP or motorsport part. It doesn't affix to the chassis so the splitter can really only be as stiff as the factory mounting points. The volkommen was FRP so it was by far the most robust. It was heavy though.
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