New OE front brakes + track pads swap

[dparm]

Originally Posted by M3ANMACHINE

Holy hell, one track day?! Are you dragging brakes into turns or what?
Never seen anything like that before

50 laps is a lot, if you think about it.

A few assumptions:
-track length 3 miles
-20 minute session
-average lap time of 3:00 (includes in-lap and out-lap)

That works out to maybe 7ish laps per session, and even if you get 5 sessions in a day, that's only 35 laps. If he had 50 laps, that's almost a day and a half. To do 50 laps in one day, that's more like 5x 30 minute sessions.

I still think that's some very heavy consumption, but it is important to level-set that his track day was probably a long one. I would also want to know what track this is -- sounds like a brake-heavy track.

[strokemycocktus]

Originally Posted by dparm

50 laps is a lot, if you think about it.

A few assumptions:
-track length 3 miles
-20 minute session
-average lap time of 3:00 (includes in-lap and out-lap)

That works out to maybe 7ish laps per session, and even if you get 5 sessions in a day, that's only 35 laps. If he had 50 laps, that's almost a day and a half. To do 50 laps in one day, that's more like 5x 30 minute sessions.

I still think that's some very heavy consumption, but it is important to level-set that his track day was probably a long one. I would also want to know what track this is -- sounds like a brake-heavy track.

Track is 4km long. I make lap times around 1:55.
First 3 sessions are 15 min each, then another 3 sessions 30 min each with a cooldown lap in the middle. The 50 lap count is with all in and out laps.

The track seems to be heavy on brakes - first corner you brake from about 220 kmh to 120, next from 200 to 70. It was also 32°C that day.

I brake late and hard and I try to enter the corner on the brakes, slowly releasing them at the apex.
I didn't get much understeer so I doubt MDM was engaging that much. Brakes were working very good so most of the time I ended up entering a corner with too low speed.

I'm going again next week and I am installing a DIY ducting kit to help with the cooling. Also the weather is cooler so hopefully I can survive out there haha. I'll post some more info after the event to let you know how did the brake cooling work. But I think this is the main reason these stock brakes are constantly boiling on the track.

[dparm]

Get yourself the caliper stickers and thermographic rotor paint.

I would also measure the pad depth after every session and write it down somewhere. Pad wear is not linear.

[strokemycocktus]

I tried a different approach for the next track day and installed some brake ducting. I didn't want to cut the undertray so I routed the 2" pipes under the car and squezed them at their lowest point. I fabricated some flanges to flow the air directly in the hub. The intakes were 3" reductions installed under the bumper. In theory it seemed solid and after some testing and different fitment options I didn't scratch the pipes while driving on the street.
I know it wasn't perfect but figured it was better than no cooling.

I rolled the dice and went with OE textar pads. I had a spare set of baseline Ferodo pads in the trunk just in case.

To my surprise the textar pads worked pretty well. They did fade a few times, but I was able to drive a full 15 min session without bigger issues nonetheless.
It turned out that on heavy cornering the pipes would eventually scratch, so I had to fix them with duct tape after each session.

However the pads were going out rather fast. After about 5 sessions there were like 5mm left so I decided to replace them. I was driving a bit harder knowing I have lots of pads left, but anyway the Ferodos were fading a lot more than textar. After one 30 min session they were gone to bare metal.

Now the best part. I went to replace the pads with new textar ones again. The pad sensors melted as usual, no big deal. Left side all good. Right side - melted piston
Well, I don't know what to say

I'm done with tracking for this season. Next season I plan to develop a more efficient and reliable ducting and go with (supposedly) the best pads available - pagid rsl. Hopefully I will get this car to brake on the track eventually lol.

[Bartledoo]

What the F?! Do you have any in-cabin footage of the track day?

[strokemycocktus]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

What the F?! Do you have any in-cabin footage of the track day?

Yes, I need to cut it and upload on yt. I'll post it later.

[gmx]

Using DSC/MDM?

[Kelse92]

There’s got to be something going on that you’re not telling us. There’s no way you’ve gone through multiple sets of brake pads in two times out unless you have MDM on with DSC on, or are wayyy over-driving the car. The scenario is just unbelievable to me unless the car is intervening on Everything on track, which with MDM on and DSC on would be the only scenario I would think to cause that... turn everything off and see what happens. It’s been asked a few times now in this thread and you haven’t answered.

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by Kelse92

There’s got to be something going on that you’re not telling us. There’s no way you’ve gone through multiple sets of brake pads in two times out unless you have MDM on with DSC on, or are wayyy over-driving the car. The scenario is just unbelievable to me unless the car is intervening on Everything on track, which with MDM on and DSC on would be the only scenario I would think to cause that... turn everything off and see what happens. It’s been asked a few times now in this thread and you haven’t answered.

If DSC is intervening enough to cause this, then it may be dangerous to turn it off and try to get an apples to apples comparison of the results.

[roastbeef]

sounds like you're getting a decent amount of time out of these pads on a high consumption track, but you're also probably overwhelming the oem rotors and are paying the price with excessive pad wear. you're likely overwhelming the pads.

[gmx]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

If DSC is intervening enough to cause this, then it may be dangerous to turn it off and try to get an apples to apples comparison of the results.

At this point, double check your alignment. If alignment is good, get a coach/instructor.
There is no question that piston is a result of heat. That alone is obvious.

[strokemycocktus]

Thanks for all the answers and suggestions. I have said that drive with MDM on. I know it contributes to brake wear on track, but come on how bad can it be...
I did take an instructor last track day, he was rather happy with my driving and told me to try to brake even later and try trail braking to smooth out my turn ins to shave off some more time.
I am also getting decent lap times for this car and track, so hopefully my driving isn't the main reason for these problems.
To compare there was a guy with an e92 last time with some aftermarket calipers (stock rotors), fbo and dct so in theory he should be faster (everybody knows how much faster the dct alone is compared to a 6mt lol), but in the end we got the same times that day.

I may try driving with MDM off, I am just a bit anxious as the track happens to be crowded sometimes and you never know what some idiot in front of you will do and in a blink of an eye you find yourself braking in the middle of a corner hoping not to crash into his ass. This is my daily car so a crash on a track would be quite painful.

I'll update you with some videos so you can see for yourself - who knows maybe I am going too vin diesel out there :

[gmx]

I missed this. But it looks like you ran the pads really low to 5mm and Ferodos lower. Ferodo what? DS2500?
The pad (and other brake components) are like a heat sink with specific heat capacity. Less material on the pad = heat disperses elsewhere. And unfortunately (or fortunately) your piston suffered. Could've been worse, like fluid/ rotor failure.

Really lucky. Brake setup is specific to tracks, you can get away with minimal on slower technical courses with less % of the lap spent on the brakes. As soon as you mix in a few high speed stops, don't skimp. New pads, rotors decently above minimum/aftermarket, fresh high temp fluid is always the way to go.