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      10-05-2016, 03:17 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
My PFC12 front pads on the PFC BBK last between 56 and 68 hours on my E92 which works out to around 31-34 days

Bimmerworld tells me that is too fast and once I add suspension the rear will wear more and the front will wear less

Regardless, I'm pretty happy
Whoa - that's amazing! I would love to see half that pad life. I've seen those meaty PFC pads made for the PFC BBK - they must have 30mm of pad material. These are the most expensive pads that I've seen, but if they will see this long life, they're well worth it.
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      10-05-2016, 03:37 PM   #24
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Yes, they always provide lots of fun at tech inspection lines
28 mm is a lot of pad!

If I recall correctly, it's around $570 for the fronts. When you think the OEM size PFC08 works out to $3XX, it's a no brainer!
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      10-05-2016, 04:01 PM   #25
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When I was having over-temp issues on my front brakes I called PFC and talked to an engineer there, one of his comments was to consider upgrading to their front brake kit. I believe he said it was pretty much the same kit they use on race-cars. Researched it and I believe him, it's quite a legit kit. Ducting is likely the cheaper option for you at this point though!
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      10-05-2016, 04:08 PM   #26
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lol

No you don't need $300 in hose and duct brackets, let me direct you to $4000 worth of parts which we keep stocked for just this kind of situation

sounds about right
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      10-05-2016, 04:45 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbyrd View Post
I've searched and read most of the threads, but I'm still undecided. I'm leaning toward the Cantrell complete kit as I don't want to build this from scratch.

I have a StoptechTrophy ST-60/40 BBK, but I'm going through pads in 2 weekends/4 days. I've tried various pad materials including Pagid RS-29s, Stoptech SR34s, Carbotech XP-12s and now Cobalt Friction XR1s.

For those with the Cantrell kit, how's it working and holding up? Any other options that are relatively affordable?
I can burn through pads at that rate at COTA but no where else in Texas. If this is happening elsewhere I would look at adjusting your braking technique. Pretend you're in a Miata.

I installed the Cantrell kit 2-3 years ago and it works well; shields off the tie rod end from heat too. IIRC, I think I had a little interference with the rotor or hub that was easy to fix, just be sure to check everything before buttoning it up. The kit uses 2-1/2" hose versus the 3" that many others use but it's still very effective and easier to route.

My biggest problem with heat before installing this kit was my brake fluid, not burning up pads. Ducting and Ti pad shims solved most of that and upgrading to a BBK eliminated the soft pedal. My car is lighter though, which is a factor.
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      10-05-2016, 04:53 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surlynkid View Post
Turn off traction control, and your pads will wear less and stay cooler. LOL

Truth. MDM brakes individual wheels and this means the brakes are being used even when you think you are not. I can occasionally hear it, and it's interesting to look at how dirty my wheels are when pulling off track: typically one side is darker than the other.
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      10-05-2016, 08:27 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm
Quote:
Originally Posted by surlynkid View Post
Turn off traction control, and your pads will wear less and stay cooler. LOL

Truth. MDM brakes individual wheels and this means the brakes are being used even when you think you are not. I can occasionally hear it, and it's interesting to look at how dirty my wheels are when pulling off track: typically one side is darker than the other.
It was a joke. DByrd runs DSC off.
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      10-06-2016, 10:11 AM   #30
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I think generally we're just afraid to cut into our cars and deal with the hassle of hoses etc. I'm guilty too, I have the STR40 kit instead of going with my first instinct to put ducts on the car because it's just easier and cleaner. But...



Sadly it's just physics y'all. Even if like me you've put a bigger better pump on the car when you put better bigger rotors on the front, it's dead-heading with nothing but turbulent hot air to throw out from the upright without ducting. Even just using the front airdam hole to get some throughput of cold air into the wheel well would help. This is what the stock ducts on other BMW's and many other performance cars do, but for some reason M division has decided its cars are special and exempt from the laws of thermodynamics and/or they decided beginning in about 2005 that they don't care that the cars can't stand up to extended tracking with just a pad change (obviously the latter...M is for marketing)

Get you some ducts, get happy, if it were me I'd do some testing to see if just running a hose and pointing it at the upright from the fender liner might be sufficient for most tracks with race pads

Still wish somebody would make a control-arm mounted polyurethane/frp scoop a'la porsche for our cars. Seems like it'd be a fun cad 3D printer project. Hell at $15 plus shipping I'm tempted to try and make these work:

https://www.ecstuning.com/Porsche-20...ing/ES2526435/

THe porsche front LCA and ours isn't that dissimilar in angle/purpose
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      10-06-2016, 10:55 AM   #31
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I'm also considering the Bimmerworld carbon fiber backing plates for $400. I don't necessarily want carbon fiber but the price would be similar to the Cantrell kit. Sounds like folks are happy with the Cantrell kit. Any feedback re: the Bimmerworld backing plates? Are there any other off-the-shelf options that I should consider?

Thanks for all the feedback.
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Last edited by dbyrd; 10-06-2016 at 11:04 AM..
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      10-06-2016, 11:37 AM   #32
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What do you guys think about gt4 splitter?

https://europeanautosource.com/mode-...er-e9x-m3.html

It has built in brake ducts to direct cold air towards the brakes but has no hoses unless one wants to install them.
For the car that is also driven on the street (even occasionally), brake hoses are not something many of us want to do.
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      10-06-2016, 11:42 AM   #33
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      10-06-2016, 12:08 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Datka View Post
What do you guys think about gt4 splitter?

https://europeanautosource.com/mode-...er-e9x-m3.html

It has built in brake ducts to direct cold air towards the brakes but has no hoses unless one wants to install them.
For the car that is also driven on the street (even occasionally), brake hoses are not something many of us want to do.
If you are looking for something practical and affordable should you have an "off track excursion", I would look at some of the GT4 replicas on ebay. Are they going to have perfect fitment and be as of high quality?- no way. But they are much more reasonable to replace.

Been down this road with expensive splitters, and concluded that they are consumable items.
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      10-06-2016, 02:29 PM   #35
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Agreed, expensive splitters are likely to get torn to shit if you go off or hit a curb a bit too hard. Also, the public roads are going to absolutely annihilate them.
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      10-06-2016, 02:36 PM   #36
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I understand they will be destroyed sooner or later if used on public roads.
But will this splitter be effective without hoses to cool down brakes, that was the question
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      10-06-2016, 02:59 PM   #37
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My answer is that it would be modestly (10%?) better than nothing to generally direct some air in the right direction.
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      10-06-2016, 03:07 PM   #38
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My guess is that it would be a lot more than 10%.
Maybe someone who has this splitter or similar can chime in and give us some feedback on this.
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      10-06-2016, 03:13 PM   #39
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Quote:
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I came across another set of temperature stickers, less stickers but decent price if you just want two stickers, Brembo Temperature stickers.
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      10-06-2016, 07:52 PM   #40
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Everyone I know with that front splitter has torn it to shreds in an off.
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      10-06-2016, 09:24 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Datka
My guess is that it would be a lot more than 10%.
Maybe someone who has this splitter or similar can chime in and give us some feedback on this.
Just seems near impossible to measure and there's so many places the air can go without a hose to contain/direct it. No engineer by any means, but if air is a gas and gas expands to fill the container it's put in, where there is no container (hose) I'm hard pressed to think much air could be directed at the brakes.
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      10-07-2016, 12:26 PM   #42
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brake ducts benefits

Quote:
Originally Posted by Datka View Post
I understand they will be destroyed sooner or later if used on public roads.
But will this splitter be effective without hoses to cool down brakes, that was the question
No, the splitter needs to be connected to the brake rotor.
But in general and I can only speak for the race application with GT4 splitter . Since I've been using brake ducts I have noticeable less pad wear and my newly replaced ST60 rotors don't show the same heat cracks as they did before and that's after being at VIR , RA and Watkins Glen. So some clear benefits.
For street use I'd simply make a nice cover/plug so you have the best in both worlds.
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      10-07-2016, 12:28 PM   #43
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Quote:
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Just seems near impossible to measure and there's so many places the air can go without a hose to contain/direct it. No engineer by any means, but if air is a gas and gas expands to fill the container it's put in, where there is no container (hose) I'm hard pressed to think much air could be directed at the brakes.
The factory duct setup on most BMW's until fairly recently and many other cars is this less-than-perfect but better-than-nothing method. Sure you'd rather dunk your 400 degree pizza in ice water to get it cooled off faster, but putting a slice on a plate and letting it sit for a few minutes works too. Still better than switching the oven off and leaving it in there
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      10-07-2016, 03:46 PM   #44
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If you look at that pic I posted above, those splitter openings are angled in such a way that air will be directed towards the brakes.
I have been running without front brake backing plates for a wile now and noticed slight reduction of front pad wear.
Now there is almost no air circulation around front brakes, but these ducts from GT4 splitter even without connected hoses to the rotors will provide fresh cold air for sure. That should dissipate some heat from that area i think.
I am going to get this splitter for the next season and will measure caliper tempr. before and after. Will come back here to report my findings.
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