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      05-02-2019, 06:44 PM   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z3papa View Post
OK -- here is my initial thoughts. I installed the rears last weekend, and had the fronts installed today as something came up that got in my way timewise. I feel the rears are a huge improvement over the underdamped OEM units, especially when the are worn. I can definitely tell you the rear was far more planted on irregularly pothole worn surfaces even when pushed, and I'd definitely say they beat the OEM ZCP EDC rears, but are admittedly a bit of a PITA to install. The online video does not show you needing to drop the lower control arm to get the shock in but that's the ticket.

As for the fronts which went in today, they really raised ride height probably 7-8/10" over the worn OEM fronts. I was aware of this as it's been discussed here but this is more than I expected. The ride/handling over the worn OE fronts is much better but i'm mildly concerned about change of rake placing more weight on the rears, the lost of front negative camber from raising up, etc. For those who are looking for aesthetics, I get the disappointment. That's not a concern for me and in fact will probably keep my front bumper cover from scraping as I run 18" wheels. I understand the OE units start with 100 psi and go downhill from there, and the B6's start with 300 psi to prevent initial cavitation. I suspect they will settle some (not so much springs but the stuts pressure) but this may be a learning process. For those concerned about looks, I could see running OE fronts with B6 EDC rears.
I appreciate your feedback

Have you thought of pairing the fronts or the whole kit with Eibach springs? That's how I had my E46 M3 and both my 330Ci's and they look great
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      05-02-2019, 06:49 PM   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I appreciate your feedback

Have you thought of pairing the fronts or the whole kit with Eibach springs? That's how I had my E46 M3 and both my 330Ci's and they look great
I compete in SCCA FStreet where that's not permitted. If I were to go to aftermarket springs, I look at that or a conversion with higher spring rates a slight drop. As I said, I'm less concerned about aesthetics as performance/function.
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      05-02-2019, 08:01 PM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z3papa View Post
OK -- here is my initial thoughts. I installed the rears last weekend, and had the fronts installed today as something came up that got in my way timewise. I feel the rears are a huge improvement over the underdamped OEM units, especially when the are worn. I can definitely tell you the rear was far more planted on irregularly pothole worn surfaces even when pushed, and I'd definitely say they beat the OEM ZCP EDC rears, but are admittedly a bit of a PITA to install. The online video does not show you needing to drop the lower control arm to get the shock in but that's the ticket.

As for the fronts which went in today, they really raised ride height probably 7-8/10" over the worn OEM fronts. I was aware of this as it's been discussed here but this is more than I expected. The ride/handling over the worn OE fronts is much better but i'm mildly concerned about change of rake placing more weight on the rears, the lost of front negative camber from raising up, etc. For those who are looking for aesthetics, I get the disappointment. That's not a concern for me and in fact will probably keep my front bumper cover from scraping as I run 18" wheels. I understand the OE units start with 100 psi and go downhill from there, and the B6's start with 300 psi to prevent initial cavitation. I suspect they will settle some (not so much springs but the stuts pressure) but this may be a learning process. For those concerned about looks, I could see running OE fronts with B6 EDC rears.
Did you shorten the strut hats 10mm a la Dinan?

When I put the B6 Damptronics, up front, I shortened the hats and swapped to Eibach Pro springs, as well...The combo of the B6 + Eibachs seems to work quite well...FWIW.

-Mark in St. Louis

...posted before seeing the last 2 posts...Can you still shorten the hats?
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      05-02-2019, 08:19 PM   #202
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I can't legally shorten the strut hats. IMO -- even if I had shaved an 1/8-1/4", that's a marginal impact. I don't know how many folks have looked back at their car photos over the years but I have tonight. It's pretty clear the front OE struts really drop ride height over time as my photos show probably a 2.0-2.5" wheel gap (top of tire to edge of fender with understanding the wheel/tire would recede into the well upon compression) when I bought the car, and it sat about 1" lower as recently as a week ago. While that looks good, that suggests a serious loss of suspension travel up front which is no beauno.
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      05-03-2019, 04:31 AM   #203
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Are you allowed to run camber plates? I think Ground Control do a reduced stack height version which is 11mm lower, this would potentially negate a lot of the lift from the dampers.
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      05-03-2019, 12:35 PM   #204
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Quote:
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Are you allowed to run camber plates? I think Ground Control do a reduced stack height version which is 11mm lower, this would potentially negate a lot of the lift from the dampers.
No we can't.
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      05-03-2019, 03:14 PM   #205
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Have we ever confirmed where the ZCP drop comes from - springs, shocks, etc? I think they all have different PNs and I've read about ZCP spring drops, and that the shocks have lower perches. I ask because I am wondering how the Billys would mate up on a ZCP car in terms of height and spring match.
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      05-03-2019, 11:10 PM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyatth View Post
Have we ever confirmed where the ZCP drop comes from - springs, shocks, etc? I think they all have different PNs and I've read about ZCP spring drops, and that the shocks have lower perches. I ask because I am wondering how the Billys would mate up on a ZCP car in terms of height and spring match.
Springs do the dropping.

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1481852
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      05-05-2019, 07:45 PM   #207
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Well, here's my updated assessment from today's Indy SCCA region autocross. I was .35 off of class winner, and probably around 10th out of 120 on index. While the front Bilstein B6 EDC damptronic units are very good for the street, you really need to use them with lowering springs at least up front or the rake of the car is thrown off a bit causing the car to have more grip in the rear than front. if you are limited to OEM SCP springs which I am to be class legal, the car doesn't quite want to take a set at corner entry. For street or track purposes, I'd love them but my gig is SCCA National autocross competition where .3 to .5 can be make a huge difference. More importantly, I don't want to have lingering doubts that this may be the difference that makes the difference. So I am going to keep the rear B6 EDC units and match them with OE ZCP EDC struts. If anyone has any interest on the fronts, they have 400 miles and a few days of wear and would do a killer deal for anyone wanting to make or complete a set.
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      05-05-2019, 11:00 PM   #208
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300psi is not needed for cavitation. I ran my Motons at 150 and the WRS Bilsteins at 175-200. It's too bad they don't have schrader valves. You could probably get some installed by someone who knows what they're doing, but that means pulling everything off again.
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      05-06-2019, 07:09 PM   #209
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For anyone interested, this is the FS ad for the struts. There is a great of interest.
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1611379

These have now been sold.
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Last edited by z3papa; 05-06-2019 at 10:11 PM..
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      05-11-2019, 10:12 AM   #210
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One point of observation as I just installed brand spanking new ZCP front EDC struts about an hour ago and am sending the Bilstein fronts out the buyer. While I did not take precise measurements, I can state without hesitation new to new, the Bilsteins and the OE ZCP units are at very, very close to the same ride height with ZCP springs used with both. I've got pictures which need to be resized to post here for the Bilsteins as the buyer wanted to see it prior to purchase, and can snap a picture of the now OEM struts but it may be a few days to get the pics re-sized to post here. So the moral of the story is the guy from Bilstein was dead on about the perceived raise of the Bilsteins being attributable to the OEM struts depressurizing over time.
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      05-11-2019, 10:20 AM   #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z3papa View Post
One point of observation as I just installed brand spanking new ZCP front EDC struts about an hour ago and am sending the Bilstein fronts out the buyer. While I did not take precise measurements, I can state without hesitation new to new, the Bilsteins and the OE ZCP units are at very, very close to the same ride height with ZCP springs used with both. I've got pictures which need to be resized to post here for the Bilsteins as the buyer wanted to see it prior to purchase, and can snap a picture of the now OEM struts but it may be a few days to get the pics re-sized to post here. So the moral of the story is the guy from Bilstein was dead on about the perceived raise of the Bilsteins being attributable to the OEM struts depressurizing over time.
Great point! Thank you
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      05-12-2019, 06:37 PM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z3papa View Post
One point of observation as I just installed brand spanking new ZCP front EDC struts about an hour ago and am sending the Bilstein fronts out the buyer. While I did not take precise measurements, I can state without hesitation new to new, the Bilsteins and the OE ZCP units are at very, very close to the same ride height with ZCP springs used with both. I've got pictures which need to be resized to post here for the Bilsteins as the buyer wanted to see it prior to purchase, and can snap a picture of the now OEM struts but it may be a few days to get the pics re-sized to post here. So the moral of the story is the guy from Bilstein was dead on about the perceived raise of the Bilsteins being attributable to the OEM struts depressurizing over time.
Do you think performance wise for refreshing a non-zcp edc car is brand new b6 better than brand new OEM shock?
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      05-18-2019, 02:59 PM   #213
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Do you think performance wise for refreshing a non-zcp edc car is brand new b6 better than brand new OEM shock?
I can't say as my car is ZCP EDC so I have no point of comparison.
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      05-20-2019, 09:37 AM   #214
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Is anyone aware of damping differences between OEM/Sachs and the Bilsteins? Hopeful some excellent person out there has gone through the trouble to slap each on a dyno and run some charts.
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      06-04-2019, 09:45 AM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z3papa View Post
Well, here's my updated assessment from today's Indy SCCA region autocross. I was .35 off of class winner, and probably around 10th out of 120 on index. While the front Bilstein B6 EDC damptronic units are very good for the street, you really need to use them with lowering springs at least up front or the rake of the car is thrown off a bit causing the car to have more grip in the rear than front. if you are limited to OEM SCP springs which I am to be class legal, the car doesn't quite want to take a set at corner entry. For street or track purposes, I'd love them but my gig is SCCA National autocross competition where .3 to .5 can be make a huge difference. More importantly, I don't want to have lingering doubts that this may be the difference that makes the difference. So I am going to keep the rear B6 EDC units and match them with OE ZCP EDC struts. If anyone has any interest on the fronts, they have 400 miles and a few days of wear and would do a killer deal for anyone wanting to make or complete a set.
Your observation has been spot on. I had it matched with Eibach at first (was literally almost identical to a stock ZCP in stance) and then Swift R (way too rough) and then stock (front looked like a 4*4) and camber loss. There was also more dive under braking. Went back to Eibach and very happy.

The fronts do and will raise the car. Not sure if you know, Bilstein motorsport can revalve the front shocks for you and internally adjust it (shorten the shaft). But you will have to send it to CA (in order to run in F Stock, they will be revalved to spec too, they had suggested digressive valving). I didnt care and kept it stock.

I have it matched to ZCP EDC setting so the sport is not linear and love the suspension.

The OEM rear shocks were trash when I pulled it out around 60K miles (when compressed, wouldnt even pop up while in hand), way too underdamped and the car would dance at high speed sweepers (Summit Point). With the Bilsteins, its noticable (even on the streets). I do miss the light weight shocks (OEM) but apart from that, love the Bilsteins.

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      06-04-2019, 11:06 AM   #216
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So these Billies on a ZCP car, retaining ZCP springs, would end up at the same height as a stock ZCP car, will retain suspension travel/geometry as a stock ZCP car, and will retain the ZCP functionality (EDC modes)?

That'd be awesome to have such a good drop-in replacement alternative for the ZCP cars as well. I wonder what the weight difference is between the OE alum bodies and the Billy steels.

Last edited by wyatth; 06-04-2019 at 11:24 AM..
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      06-06-2019, 07:38 AM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyatth View Post
So these Billies on a ZCP car, retaining ZCP springs, would end up at the same height as a stock ZCP car, will retain suspension travel/geometry as a stock ZCP car, and will retain the ZCP functionality (EDC modes)?

That'd be awesome to have such a good drop-in replacement alternative for the ZCP cars as well. I wonder what the weight difference is between the OE alum bodies and the Billy steels.
It will raise the car for sure. More like a non ZCP car but I dont know exact height. Hence Eibach or other lowering springs suggested. With my non ZCP car and Eibach springs, its almost identical to a ZCP car (finger measurement and visually).

ZCP EDC modes will be fully functional.

Unsure about the weight but its noticeable when you hold each (Sachs aluminum body vs Bilstein steel body) side by side.

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      06-06-2019, 09:29 AM   #218
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Hm, above Z3papa says ride height is unchanged with ZCP springs, after adjusting for worn out sagging OE hardware.
ZCP springs and Eibach have a similar drop, so maybe you’re right about raising non-ZCP cars.
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