2011 E90 M3 vs 2017 C63 S: street and track review

[SYT_Shadow]

We recently had a chance to drive a friend's C63 S for a 350 miles on the street plus take it on the track!

Here is the review:

Powerrrrrrr: definitely the highlight of the car, the way it picks up speed under full throttle is wonderful.
I was surprising the lack of low end torque (not mid-range, there was plenty of that), as on the highway in 7th the car was pretty much dead - you needed to shift to 6th to pass people in anything other than a granny's pace.

There is so much whining about the E9X M3 'not having any torque', yet it is geared in a way that you never have to downshift on the highway when using 6th in a manual or 7th in the DCT and at 80mph can pass people easily and fast.

Fuel: i didn't manage over 15mpg even when driving softly on the highway in 7th, and the fuel tank indicator goes down like if there were a hole in it. As in, a trip from the gas station to a restaurant already meant being down an eighth of the tank. I do expect very large fuel consumption from a very powerful engine, but why not a bigger tank? I presume the issue was the lack of an extended tank, which i don't understand why it isn't standard!

Transmission: very clunky at low speeds (in auto or manual modes), engaging gears in a downright abrupt way a few times, jolting the cabin. Also surprisingly slow from paddle actuation to gear shift, nowhere in the ballpark of the E9X generation DCT and perhaps even slower than my E70 LCI's slushbox. I can't imagine any enthusiast being even remotely satisfied with this transmission.
I wasn't able to find a way to lock the transmission into 'manual mode'. When using the paddles (even in sport+ mode) it would seem to stay in gear and be in manual mode, but under certain conditions (full-throttle redline, speed too low for that gear, other times seemingly randomly) it would pop back into automatic and start shifting itself. More than once it double-shifted close to redline (once because it did it itself and a second time because i pulled the paddle).
However, under full-throttle and running through the gears the shifts were quick and decisive (if left in full auto mode), but that's really true of most autos built in the last decade.

Lighting: the car had the 'advanced LED', which seemed a strange name as they did not swivel side to side as they do on stock M3's... i do love what the DRL's look like both in the front and the rear, and it's nice that on 'auto' they are on most of the time

Stability control system: it seems a bit deranged that with the stability control fully on (and even with the tranny in full auto mode) you can break the tail loose at low speeds both in straights and turns before the nannies clunkily reign you in. I understand setting traction control in sport mode for you to have some tail-end happiness, but for the general population driving this car it seems way too unbridled. Having said that, traction control off is definitely entertaining, with the car willing to roast the tires happily.

Speaking of roasting tires, its behavior on oversteer was quite unpredictable. This surprised me!

The exhaust:
There is a very large difference in exhaust tonality and presence in sport+ mode vs all other modes:
Abrupt throttle-off crackles and pops, including when downshifting
Very pleasant exhaust rumble upon turning on the car, making you think the exhaust is wonderfully loud, but if you rev the engine, it is notably mute (except for the aforementioned crackles when releasing the throttle).
In essence, they came up with some interesting distractions around the fact that the exhaust doesn't actually sound pleasing under power or acceleration, as the turbos sap it from all real character.
All the press talks about is how great the engine sounds. Bullshit. It sounds really loud in sport mode but there is no engine sound whatsoever. It sounds like any V8 turbo car with a really loud exhaust.

I was very disappointed to see the quad square tips are completely fake, just adornments on the bumper covering an unconnected round exhaust tip just hanging around between both square openings. Why did they ditch the real oval tips, or why couldn't they make REAL square ones? It already looks lame in a F01 740i, but in a full-out AMG that's just wrong.
This has always been a pet peeve of mine


Incredibly stiff suspension - even in "comfort mode" (a joke of a term) you could feel painted lines on the pavement (!!), and reflectors embedded in the road were loud and jarring in the cabin. No real excuse in a car with variable suspension settings, although i wasn't able to tell any meaningful difference between those different settings. It seems out of character to be so uncomfortable with the luxurious feel of the cabin.
People think I exaggerate, but I actually pulled over to check if the tires were runflats because of how punishing the ride is. It makes my 700/1000 lb MCS suspension E90 seem positively plush in comparison.

Backwards infotainment system... when playing music through bluetooth, for instance, you couldn't skip to the next song if you are in any screen other than the bluetooth media player one.
There was no way to adjust the brightness of either the main screen or the dashboard, which of course were way too bright at night. The only quick/simple way to turn off the main screen was to power down the whole system (which kills your GPS, music, etc), which seems asinine as why wouldn't you want to continue to listen to music, for instance, but just not have the bright screen glaring in your face?
The other way to turn off that screen involves 5-6 clicks of the controller, so quite cumbersome.

The only thing i have to say about the track is that i was surprised that in 100% stock form it embarrassed a few track cars due to it's ridiculous power, although it felt very heavy and lethargic in turns. Enough of a power differential will wedge a gap in the straights that is insurmountable in turns. Not my style of driving enjoyment at the track, but entertaining nevertheless
It's a good reminder that high weights and massive power are extremely expensive to run at the track, but at the same time can be extremely competitive in terms of lap times. Light cars are advantageous in terms of consumable cost, but not necessarily lap times.

Conclusion:
It felt like i was driving the competition to an m5, not an m3 - if someone had told me that was an E63 i would have believed them

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I wasn't able to find a way to lock the transmission into 'manual mode'. When using the paddles (even in sport+ mode) it would seem to stay in gear and be in manual mode, but under certain conditions (full-throttle redline, speed too low for that gear, other times seemingly randomly) it would pop back into automatic and start shifting itself. More than once it double-shifted close to redline (once because it did it itself and a second time because i pulled the paddle).

if you looked down on the centercosule there is a switch for alternating between the modes of confort trans sport and manual. you have to select manual for it to lock in to gears. That means you were liking driving it in S auto, which after a period of not shifting 3-4 seconds the car will go back to shifting on it's own.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Properstyle

if you looked down on the centercosule there is a switch for alternating between the modes of confort trans sport and manual. you have to select manual for it to lock in to gears. That means you were liking driving it in S auto, which after a period of not shifting 3-4 seconds the car will go back to shifting on it's own.

I was using Sport+, it would not go back to auto after a few seconds. But I don't recall hitting that switch so perhaps it was user error.

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I was using Sport+, it would not go back to auto after a few seconds. But I don't recall hitting that switch so perhaps it was user error.

yeah if you don't hit that button even on the last w204 c63 it doesn't stay in manual mode. that would also likely explain the slower shifting response. can't speak on the diff as the USA only received s models. as far as I know.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Properstyle

yeah if you don't hit that button even on the last w204 c63 it doesn't stay in manual mode. that would also likely explain the slower shifting response. can't speak on the diff as the USA only received s models. as far as I know.

Really? Then I was driving the S as this happened in the US recently -- but it didn't say S in the back

For sure it was in a mode where it would stay in manual until certain conditions were met

In the MANUAL mode you're used to, does it shift automatically when hitting redline, or does it go back to auto when driving too slow for a selected gear (slowing for a stoplight, for instance)

[Properstyle]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Really? Then I was driving the S as this happened in the US recently -- but it didn't say S in the back

For sure it was in a mode where it would stay in manual until certain conditions were met

In the MANUAL mode you're used to, does it shift automatically when hitting redline, or does it go back to auto when driving too slow for a selected gear (slowing for a stoplight, for instance)

Yeah the S was the only one that came here. they all have they LSD and 503 output or what ever the number is. the manual mode stayed no matter what you do. hit the rev limiter is stayed in that gear, if you came to a stop it stayed in that mode and just dropped gears at a stop like the m3 does.
from my experience.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Properstyle

Yeah the S was the only one that came here. they all have they LSD and 503 output or what ever the number is. the manual mode stayed no matter what you do. hit the rev limiter is stayed in that gear, if you came to a stop it stayed in that mode and just dropped gears at a stop like the m3 does.
from my experience.

Ok, I've updated the main post

I might not have locked the tranny in manual for long periods of time, but when it was in manual mode all the comments are still valid. Seemed slower than the X5's ZF when comparing manual mode to manual mode

[BGBF18]

Nice write-up and very informative.

"There is so much whining about the E9X M3 'not having any torque', yet it is geared in a way that you never have to downshift on the highway when using 6th in a manual or 7th in the DCT and at 80mph can pass people easily and fast."

Well said above - one of my favorite aspects of highway driving in the M3 is how tractable sixth gear is above 80 mph. No waiting - just glorious, linear and melodic acceleration to triple digits...

[JRV]

Originally Posted by BGBF18

Nice write-up and very informative.

"There is so much whining about the E9X M3 'not having any torque', yet it is geared in a way that you never have to downshift on the highway when using 6th in a manual or 7th in the DCT and at 80mph can pass people easily and fast."

Well said above - one of my favorite aspects of highway driving in the M3 is how tractable sixth gear is above 80 mph. No waiting - just glorious, linear and melodic acceleration to triple digits...

Yep at 80 and at 6th it does it's thing and you don't realize how fast you are going

[importraceram]

Originally Posted by Properstyle

Yeah the S was the only one that came here. they all have they LSD and 503 output or what ever the number is. the manual mode stayed no matter what you do. hit the rev limiter is stayed in that gear, if you came to a stop it stayed in that mode and just dropped gears at a stop like the m3 does.
from my experience.

That is incorrect. My buddy has a W205 2016 C63. It's not an S. I believe it's rated at 470bhp from the factory.

[Redd]

The C63S is a gorgeous car both inside and out, especially in Coupe form. I was lusting after one for the longest time but after spending sometime observing it (didn't get to drive it) at a trackday, I noticed that it's soundtrack - while loud - was rather one dimensional. It always sounded the same. The crackles and pop, after a while, sounded so consistent it sounded fake. Compare that to my M3 which has so much more character in the noises that it makes. Though I have done quite a fair bit of mods in that dept - carbon intake, carbon airbox, test pipes, exhaust.

So now I'm just gonna mod the hell out of my M3, maybe even get a custom interior, and be happy with it. It's not as fast as a C63S or any of the newer generation of turbo muscle cars, but damn if that S65 doesn't put a smile on my face every time I start her up.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Redd

The C63S is a gorgeous car both inside and out, especially in Coupe form. I was lusting after one for the longest time but after spending sometime observing it (didn't get to drive it) at a trackday, I noticed that it's soundtrack - while loud - was rather one dimensional. It always sounded the same. The crackles and pop, after a while, sounded so consistent it sounded fake. Compare that to my M3 which has so much more character in the noises that it makes. Though I have done quite a fair bit of mods in that dept - carbon intake, carbon airbox, test pipes, exhaust.

So now I'm just gonna mod the hell out of my M3, maybe even get a custom interior, and be happy with it. It's not as fast as a C63S or any of the newer generation of turbo muscle cars, but damn if that S65 doesn't put a smile on my face every time I start her up.

It is a beautiful car and it pulls so much!

But in the end it's turbo. There isn't a single turbo car that sounds well. They may sound loud, but the musicality is completely lost.

Does it sound better than an M4? Likely yes. Does it sound 'good' for a sports car? Nopes

[dparm]

IMO, AMG is one of the few companies making turbo cars that still sound aggressive.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by dparm

IMO, AMG is one of the few companies making turbo cars that still sound aggressive.

Generally i agree, although the zcp m3/4 sounds decently aggressive

[kyrix1st]

Their new 9G tronic got better in terms of paddle response. Still nowhere the visceral feel of M DCT though.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Their new 9G tronic got better in terms of paddle response. Still nowhere the visceral feel of M DCT though.

I'm sure it's better, but the 2015 model feels like a POS compared to a 2008 dct.

The 2015 dct for sure is faster than the 2008... it is incredible how behind the game they are.

From reading forum posts i expected a lot better. So much talk of 'monster' and 'beast' and i have to shift one or two gears at highway speeds to pass up a Prius...