Won ebay auction at 60K for E90 M3, BMW of Lincoln refusing to honor

[bmw-m6]

Originally Posted by Desert Rat

I am a new member but have been following this thread from the start. I am a retired vehicle dealer and can see both sides of this saga. From the start I have been in Dooma's corner and was happy to hear the dealership agreed to the original terms. The dealership also agreed to cover transportation, that sounds like an apology for this whole mess.

Now the dealership has set a reasonable time limit on closing this transaction and even extended that time for another three days. It is up to Ken to complete this during this time period. If the leasing company Ken has chose is not acceptable to the dealership then Ken needs to find one that is or go through the dealership for the lease. Most times when the car is sold or leased the dealership must send the MSO (Manufacturers Statement of Origin) to the financing or leasing company before payment is made. So dealers work with companies they are sure will get payment to them in a timely manor. I can understand the dealership not wanting to send the car to California and the MSO to a company they have never heard of.

Before you flame me, think about it. Would sell a vehicle to a stranger, pay the shipping to take the vehicle more than 1,000 miles away then send off the title somewhere else to someone you had never heard of and then wait for payment.

If not completed by the deadline the dealership has every right to close the books on this.

they can extend it all they want, after denying payment with any frivolous excuse. this cheap tactic portrays them as positive and paints Ken as bad.

Does ken have to open a bank account in NE then transfer the money or something ? This is ridiculous !

funny how they spinning it that Ken is untrustworthy now. KARMA gonna make it right.

[BMW M5 Power]

if they wanted to stop the Sh!tstorm, they should accept the payment (its a check, which will probably means it takes a few days to clear, so they shouldn't be crying the very next day when the funds haven't fully been transferred). They have the chance to make things right, and so far, they haven't. its as simple as that.[/QUOTE]

There has been no payment offered, no check, just a credit card last Monday....for a $60k car!! That is old news. Since then, the deadline has been extended to this Monday. Even if it were for a deposit....given the circumstances and all the "great" advice given. I think there was a post a while back that covered this issue. A certified check or money transfer or something from the Leasing Agent would have been fine. Besides, it was noted that he already had secured funds prior to hitting the "bit now" button. Where is that money???

Just my observations. Not passing judgements or bashing Ken, perhaps the financial folks sending the funds need a nudge.....

JEff

[bmw-m6]

Originally Posted by philippek

Am I the only one to notice that at the bottom of the auction it says:

true, but if they don't accept it, thats wrong.

thats like us trying to pay a credit card bill, but they won't take it, so they'll penalize you.

they're clearly stalling.

[av8thor]

Originally Posted by Rob_K

OK, I've been watching all week and just can't help myself.

I'll be the first to call it - Ken is actually a 13 year old living somewhere in Kansas.
.

(cough) post 1457 (cough)

"In fact, I'm going out on a limb here and am going to propose something crazy... Maybe the whole deal is a hoax. PROBABLY not. But if it is, you heard it here first, folks. (I think)

/tinfoil hat off."

[bmw-m6]

Originally Posted by BMW M5 Power

Thank you for being a longstanding BMW CCA member for 10 years. For 10 of my 16 years of membership I have been the President of this Chapter and have run unopposed every time. I have been told I might have to move away or die to get replaced. I do appreciate your position on Chapter relationships as it relates to dealerships. Remember, BMW NA is hugely involved with the club as well and obviously sees that relationship as mutually beneficial or they wouldn't be offering the loyalty discounts of $500-$1500 for members that buy New or CPO's. This chapter would not fold if the dealerships failed to support the events. To suggest that I would use this forum to further my relationship with dealershp for "perks" is rediculous. I can see how you could weave that angle into it, but that is certainly not the case. I have NEVER bought a car from any of the dealerships, get no more discounts than any other member would (which is 20-25% at either dealership) and other than getting called when cool cars come in on trade (that I cannot afford) or to stop in for some Free Starbucks Coffee that everyone else gets, I got nada. I do not want to get into a debate with a fellow member and that is not my intent.
Hope to see you at the track some time!!!

Jeff

i'm still sure both organizations share some sort of mutually beneficial relationship, indirectly, if not directly ( "you're a bmw aficianado, let me recommend HAG, where many of our members have bought bmw...").

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by BMW M5 Power

You are so correct in that statement rough crowd. After 10 years in the military, I have grown a very thick skin and learned to consider the source. The only thing about being questioned is, you have to really care about what the people are saying or questioning you about. Believe me, anyone who knows me, knows the situation, knows I am not blowing smoke or fabricating things. To the best of my knowledge and experience, that is what I am passing along. And really, if people don't choose to share my position, which I assure you is neutral, fine. They can't cancel my Birthday!!!!
Jeff

Completely off-topic here, but this reminded me of a funny story I read years ago in Reader's Digest Humor in Uniform - One of the frequent sayings in the military is, "what are they gonna do, take away my birthday?" Well, it turns out the Navy can take away your birthday. This guy got into trouble while his ship was at sea and got put into the brig the day before his birthday. While he was in the brig his ship crossed the international date line and presto, they lost a day and effectively took away his birthday! We also used to say, "what are they gonna do, stamp my meal card 'no dessert?'".

[Garissimo]

Originally Posted by Desert Rat

I am a new member but have been following this thread from the start. I am a retired vehicle dealer and can see both sides of this saga. From the start I have been in Dooma's corner and was happy to hear the dealership agreed to the original terms. The dealership also agreed to cover transportation, that sounds like an apology for this whole mess.

Now the dealership has set a reasonable time limit on closing this transaction and even extended that time for another three days. It is up to Ken to complete this during this time period. If the leasing company Ken has chose is not acceptable to the dealership then Ken needs to find one that is or go through the dealership for the lease. Most times when the car is sold or leased the dealership must send the MSO (Manufacturers Statement of Origin) to the financing or leasing company before payment is made. So dealers work with companies they are sure will get payment to them in a timely manor. I can understand the dealership not wanting to send the car to California and the MSO to a company they have never heard of.

Before you flame me, think about it. Would sell a vehicle to a stranger, pay the shipping to take the vehicle more than 1,000 miles away then send off the title somewhere else to someone you had never heard of and then wait for payment.

If not completed by the deadline the dealership has every right to close the books on this.

Your perspective is appreciated, as is the BMW CCA chapter president who has added to this thread. I think it's important to step back, take a few breaths, holster the kerosene torches and pitchforks and try to at least look at it from Fil's point of view.

Having done that, the problem I still have with Husker's dealings and with what you wrote above, is this: Had Ken's offer been for the "Buy It Now" price, or for something close to MSRP, I have zero doubt in my mind that Husker would have readily accepted financing from whatever source Ken lined up, packed the M3 on the shipping truck, and closed out the deal. Granted, there are mitigating factors, such as the harassment the dealer endured, but that is not something the buyer engaged in or encouraged in any way. The crux of the matter remains that the dealer is looking for an escape because of the amount of the financing, not because of the source.

[BavarianFanatic]

Originally Posted by av8thor

(cough) post 1457 (cough)

"In fact, I'm going out on a limb here and am going to propose something crazy... Maybe the whole deal is a hoax. PROBABLY not. But if it is, you heard it here first, folks. (I think)

/tinfoil hat off."

Now how did I miss that! Damn, now I have to go back and re-read the whole freakin thing again! There goes my weekend...

I'll share the $10 with you. I still call hoax. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if Ken is actually Fil. His dealership is now THE most well known dealership in the hemisphere.

[bmw-m6]

Originally Posted by advancedlogic

Folks,

I would STRONGLY suggest the cessation of posts of unsolicited videos, messages, images, and the like that portray any likeness of anyone involved in a negative character light, as such can be used to bolster any potential litigation with character assassination as merit. Ken can and should prevail here, but some here may be unknowingly subjecting themselves to potential litigation. This isn't legal advice, merely an opine from one who is concerned at the direction and tone this has taken, with a minimum of 3 attorneys directly involved and with vested interests for their clients, perusing these forums.

they're just trying to hit our boiling points, so it spills over and burns us. most of us have self-control, but be sure to act within reason.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by Rob_K

OK, I've been watching all week and just can't help myself.

I'll be the first to call it - Ken is actually a 13 year old living somewhere in Kansas.

Originally Posted by av8thor

(cough) post 1457 (cough)

"In fact, I'm going out on a limb here and am going to propose something crazy... Maybe the whole deal is a hoax. PROBABLY not. But if it is, you heard it here first, folks. (I think)

/tinfoil hat off."

I have to admit this thought has crossed my mind, but I know for a fact philippek is the real deal and since he's offered to handle the "re-delievery" I'm thinking Ken is, in fact, for real. I've even asked philippek to confirm his involvement on another forum and gotten a confirmation from him.

[BMW M5 Power]

Originally Posted by bmw-m6

i'm still sure both organizations share some sort of mutually beneficial relationship, indirectly, if not directly ( "you're a bmw aficianado, let me recommend HAG, where many of our members have bought bmw...").

I agree except for one thing. I usually don't meet these people until AFTER they buy a car. They choose where to buy them on their own. I don't ever recommend one dealer over the other. My standard reply is to take it where you bought it for service. If a member is not happy, I tell them to try the other dealership. It is never my purpose to pit one dealership against another. Seriously, I really have little contact before the sale. I will put a recruitment card on a BMW in a parking lot to join, and have gotten MANY memberships that way. When I get the member roster, it doesn't say where they bought their car....they are just chapter members. In the rare occaision that I get asked before they buy, I say to check the options at both dealerships and see where you feel most comfortable you are getting the deal and car that is right for you. I have many many friends and master mechanics at both dealerships and am confident in recommending either....really.

Jeff

[bmw-m6]

Originally Posted by BMW M5 Power

My only intent for putting down my title was that I knew that the "data miners" would be searching for my ISP address, seaching for my employ status at BMW of Lincoln etc. I just thought it would be easier to verify as I am all over our chapter website, which I would have posted but it is against the rules to self edify on this forum. Clearly I only posted that ONCE and only for that purpose.

Insert discalimer here: Be clear, my postings in no way reflect the position of BMW CCA, the Missouri Valley Chapter, its members or anyone except for me alone. I have not conspired with anyone, anywhere and only went on a fact finding mission and have reported what I found. I did this because I am local and I could!! Period. I will state again, I have no agenda here...it does not affect me financially, personally etc. I shared the information I had attained and now it looks like I am slowly becoming a target. That was also not my intent. For all I know, I may have said things BMW of Lincoln didn't want said. If so I will hear about it from them.

If Ken has any issue with what I have said, he can contact me as well. I would love to speak to him, reassure him the car is fine and that I am very jealous as it looks 10x better in person. My last conversation with BMW of Lincoln was just this. "The car is his, we have extended the timeframe another 72 hours until Monday. We just want the money before it ships." Seems fair to me.

Now, in my opinion, and the opinion of many locals not posting for obvious reasons, if Ken really had things preapproved, ready to go before he hit send, then the financal people owe him some explanaition as to why it is taking so long to send the money. The screen shot would show he did so something is not kosher. Others think perhaps Ken hit "bid now" thinking the price would be sniped many times over as other auctions had done and found himself the only bidder..OOps!! Understandable, and maybe completey false, but hey, like everyone else here, I am entitled to my "theory" as well.

Even if the latter was a mistake, by the time he posted his question on the Blogs, this thing took off and he couldn't go back, not with all the excellent advice he was getting about they owe you the car, BMW NA should give it to you, we will set up a paypal and everyone donate $5 and get it paid for...etc. etc... Talk about painted into a corner. Hey, like a said, all theory...and not all mine. I cannot take credit for all of that.

Ken...PLEASE find a way to get the money to them and end this. I know both sides want this to work out. Lets hope Monday is a Happy day for everyone!!
Jeff

he got pre-approved for cap-one which would fed-ex the check next day to Ken to deliver in person (if local sale) or to dealer. then it takes a few days to clear, and last i remember there's more than 72hours in 7 days.

[bmw-m6]

Originally Posted by BMW M5 Power

if they wanted to stop the Sh!tstorm, they should accept the payment (its a check, which will probably means it takes a few days to clear, so they shouldn't be crying the very next day when the funds haven't fully been transferred). They have the chance to make things right, and so far, they haven't. its as simple as that.

There has been no payment offered, no check, just a credit card last Monday....for a $60k car!! That is old news. Since then, the deadline has been extended to this Monday. Even if it were for a deposit....given the circumstances and all the "great" advice given. I think there was a post a while back that covered this issue. A certified check or money transfer or something from the Leasing Agent would have been fine. Besides, it was noted that he already had secured funds prior to hitting the "bit now" button. Where is that money???

Just my observations. Not passing judgements or bashing Ken, perhaps the financial folks sending the funds need a nudge.....

JEff[/QUOTE]


he got pre-approved for cap-one which would fed-ex the check next day to Ken to deliver in person (if local sale) or to dealer. then it takes a few days to clear, and last i remember there's more than 72hours in 7 days.

saw your edit, but how do you personally know first-hand if payment was sent, but not "recieved" ??

[chakalakasp]

Originally Posted by sloth

There is a detail I'm not sure I got right:
Dooma won the auction and according to ebay, the M3 was sold to him. However, he later changed his mind and decided to lease the vehilce. How does that comply with the auction's terms?

Dooma, what kind of lease was that?

I don't want to be the jerk that ruins the internet mob, but this story no longer seems as clear cut as it did at the beginning. For one thing, rarely will a lawyer out and out lie about a verifiable fact that they were aware of (and can be proven they were aware of) in a certified legal letter. You get disbarred for that kind of stuff. So we can only take that letter at face value. If Dooma has given them valid financing information and that can be proven by Dooma's attorney, then he never EVER would have received a letter like that.

I'm not sure what all this means, but I'm now getting the impression that key elements of this story are being omitted. If that's not the case, I implore Dooma to explain; this is the second time now my BS detector has gone off while reading his updates. (And I've read all of them.)

[750li]

I have been reading all these posts from the beginning. I have to say that I have laughed many times at the jokes that were made. At this point in time I feel bad for what ken is going through. we should all remember the the forum thread started with the line . "won ebay auction ....and bmw of lincoln refusing to honor." as a business man and bmw driver for over fifteen years I have bought, arranged financing and ordered cars with a telephone call to my dealer confirming receipt of an email requesting the options and colors i wanted. Husker's attorney could have called Ken's lawyer and said we want to put this behind us and move on. They could have agreed on financing, terms payment etc and this forum would have ended 50 or more pages ago. The dealer could have turned this into a HUGE promotion for themselves brought ken in with local press tv, bmw club etc to see Ken take delivery of the famous ebay M3, and say here is How Husker turned this into a happy ending.

Instead they feel discrediting ken is the way to go. They are trying to argue that ken can not afford the car or does not have the financing to do so. And now the argument is that HE did not abide by the TERMS of the AUCTION. IMO this is bs. To date Ken has turned down offers of members willing to paypal him money. If you look at the numbers that this forum has generated ken could easily have received enough in donations to pay for a M3 for him , his lawyer and have money left over! I am still hoping that ken will take a paypal donation. No one can argue that he has not provided all of us with quite an interesting read. Good Luck Ken!!!

[BMW M5 Power]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Completely off-topic here, but this reminded me of a funny story I read years ago in Reader's Digest Humor in Uniform - One of the frequent sayings in the military is, "what are they gonna do, take away my birthday?" Well, it turns out the Navy can take away your birthday. This guy got into trouble while his ship was at sea and got put into the brig the day before his birthday. While he was in the brig his ship crossed the international date line and presto, they lost a day and effectively took away his birthday! We also used to say, "what are they gonna do, stamp my meal card 'no dessert?'".

LOL..lol....You got me. I was in the Navy. 10 years as an aircraft mechanic on F14, F18, A6, Harriers etc... I have heard this story and it is true. Brings back some memories there.

Jeff

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by chakalakasp

I don't want to be the jerk that ruins the internet mob, but this story no longer seems as clear cut as it did at the beginning. For one thing, rarely will a lawyer out and out lie about a verifiable fact that they were aware of (and can be proven they were aware of) in a certified legal letter. You get disbarred for that kind of stuff. So we can only take that letter at face value. If Dooma has given them valid financing information and that can be proven by Dooma's attorney, then he never EVER would have received a letter like that.

I'm not sure what all this means, but I'm now getting the impression that key elements of this story are being omitted. If that's not the case, I implore Dooma to explain; this is the second time now my BS detector has gone off while reading his updates. (And I've read all of them.)

I'm wondering what's going on. I think the deal is real, but I think Dooma screwed up by trying to go the leasing route instead of doing an outright purchase. I told him he'd be better off buying the car outright.

[-RAC]

Originally Posted by advancedlogic

Judging by a posted document from a corporate attorney referencing a potential libel suit, I would be remiss to post anything or say anything that attacks the character of their client, or can be construed under the definition of libel.

Read this: http://www.keleka.net/pubs/combinedthesis.pdf for more information as to why. Other resources presented strictily for informational purposes only, are below. Corporate counsel exist for a reason, and can be quite effective at getting blood out of turnips. Just be careful everyone.


http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1052440764269

http://internet-law.lawyers.com/Libel-Online.html

http://www.internetlibrary.com/topic...ecency_act.cfm

I am not sure but I don't think some of those cases would apply. You would still have to prove intent and prove that what was being written were lies. Didn't the BMW club president guy post that the Dealer's internet guy did call and say the very same thing that Dooma posted?

Originally Posted by BMW M5 Power

... Fil did NOT even know about this situation until after the Internet sales guy tried to squash his screw-up, which is what it was, by some quick footwork that didn't obviously work ...

Jeff Gomon, President
Missouri Valley Chapter, BMW CCA
Lincoln, NE

I am just wondering if one would be able to get a trail by jury? Do you really think a dealership would get a sympathetic jury?

[ideliver]

Originally Posted by chakalakasp

For one thing, rarely will a lawyer out and out lie about a verifiable fact that they were aware of (and can be proven they were aware of) in a certified legal letter.

Not true...how many times have you seen a lawyer give an interview about how innocent his client was and then they guy pleads guilt months later?

They have a word for it "advocating" ...we call it lying

[av8thor]

Originally Posted by Elisabeth

While this thread technically fits the basic definition of libel, this is not an actual circulated medium. Users must register to post here, or actively seek out information from this source.

Also, I believe that in order to sue for libel, you must first be able to prove that the individual actually printed/published misleading or false information. As I stated earlier, I feel there was really no motive for Dooma to begin this thread with fake info; he was merely seeking advice for a situation that occurred on eBay.

A few minutes ago, the thought also occurred that most of the publicity was not actually Ken's fault. Some of us forwarded this thread to other sources (fark.com, autoblog.com, consumerist.com, The Lincoln Journal Star, etc. etc.), and spread the word. I fail to see how they expect to prosecute this case with so many anonymous individuals involved.

And I'm pretty sure (not a lawyer but I was a Journalism major at one point) that BMWoL and VTAIG would have to prove damages in order to successfuly pursue a lawsuit for libel. According to some sources, business has never been better for Husker, so I'm not sure this approach would hold much water. Sounds more like saber rattling to me.

Still the question remains, why is this going on so long?

[par4bmw]

As strange as the story is, it sure seams real to me. Both attorneys are real, just search for them. Why would Ken pay for an attorney if he did not need it? My guess, only a guess, is that Husker is now trying to recover from their original blunders by bringing in new guns to try and seek damages.

Ken,
Sorry to jump the gun when I passed on congrats earlier. Hang in there. You have a lot of people behind you.

[advancedlogic]

Originally Posted by 750li

I have been reading all these posts from the beginning. I have to say that I have laughed many times at the jokes that were made. At this point in time I feel bad for what ken is going through. we should all remember the the forum thread started with the line . "won ebay auction ....and bmw of lincoln refusing to honor." as a business man and bmw driver for over fifteen years I have bought, arranged financing and ordered cars with a telephone call to my dealer confirming receipt of an email requesting the options and colors i wanted. Husker's attorney could have called Ken's lawyer and said we want to put this behind us and move on. They could have agreed on financing, terms payment etc and this forum would have ended 50 or more pages ago. The dealer could have turned this into a HUGE promotion for themselves brought ken in with local press tv, bmw club etc to see Ken take delivery of the famous ebay M3, and say here is How Husker turned this into a happy ending.

Instead they feel discrediting ken is the way to go. They are trying to argue that ken can not afford the car or does not have the financing to do so. And now the argument is that HE did not abide by the TERMS of the AUCTION. IMO this is bs. To date Ken has turned down offers of members willing to paypal him money. If you look at the numbers that this forum has generated ken could easily have received enough in donations to pay for a M3 for him , his lawyer and have money left over! I am still hoping that ken will take a paypal donation. No one can argue that he has not provided all of us with quite an interesting read. Good Luck Ken!!!

That's the kind of behavior that lends credence to his story. He's repeatedly turned down what would have been an outpouring of cash (mine included). In my opinion, I don't believe his ability to pay, or his intentions, are an issue for debate.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...ksid=p3907.m32

Up to this point, Ken has left 100% of his 145 e-bay clients with positive experiences, as both a seller and buyer of goods. I don't think he'd jeaporize 5 years of ebaying on a BS bid. He obviously recognized the great pricing on an E90 M3, and took a chance. Any reasonable ebayer has done the same. In this instance, he won. That it has reached such a crecendo of support is amazing to witness.