ESS 550 Kit.. Tuned by Mike Benvo

[DansM]

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

Apparently when it comes to BPM, "butt" dyno's are acceptable.

Listen its ok to have your hatful remarks about whomever you choose but, as I stated before, I put this on here to inform people of how I like the tune and how the whole thing came together. The ess system is fantastic and mike did a fantastic job tuning it. Is it relay that complicated? Mike certainly didn't steal a tune from ESS or whatever is being said on here. He spent a lot of time and collected much data that helped determine all parameters to make the kit work as if it was tuned from ESS. that being said, boost is boost and I think the difficult aspect is more in the platform rather than equipment on it. If one knows the platform well, than tuning aspect becomes understood and not a crap shoot and "hope and pray"

I remember a few cars ago I had a g35 coupe with a turbonetics kit. Well, that kit proved to be great but somewhat limited especially with the factory turbonetics tune they provided. so what happened? competition ran its course and other manufacturers designed piggy back ECUs to work as a tuning solution for the vq35de platform further enhancing the performance and tuning ability and also allowing for more precise manipulation of every variable in the cars anatomy. In the end, not one person ran the turbonetics tune but ran a Haltech, Turboxs, Greddy, AEM or something that parallels those.

What is the difference in this situation? really? Mike is simply offering another tuning solution for a FI kit available for the M3...just like all those other companies did...Just because he isn't a huge name like GREDDY or HALTECH doesn't translate to him not knowing the way the car functions and how the ECU works and adapts ETC... I am planning on doing a dyno soon so you all can see what type of power curve its making. Ive been around fast cars a while now and I would know what 100 + more HP feels like. Mike isn't making empty promises or exaggerating the reality, he is simply assessing the facts and adjusting accordingly and he did it all from his knowledge on the platform. Nothing was left in the dark and nothing was promised that wasn't delivered.

[Hujan]

I can understand why might think twice about having a supercharger made by one company tuned by another. But anyone who claims BPM Sport has committed some sort of faux pax by agreeing to tune another company's supercharger is just exposing themselves as an ESS fanboy.

What is this? The 17th Century? Is BPM supposed to turn down opportunities to demonstrate it's tuning capabilities based on some nebulous sense of chivalry?

The only thing ESS might not like about BPM tuning for their superchargers is the potential loss of business if the BPM tunes prove to be as good or better than the ESS tunes. But that's called competition.

And is it really surprising that a tuner thinks it can provide as good or better service than a rival tuner? What is BPM Sport supposed to say? "Ah, gee, that's kinda over our head"?

[FogCityM3]

You said it...some of these crazy assertions or allegations in this thread aren't even worth dignifying with responses.

Originally Posted by Hujan

I can understand why might think twice about having a supercharger made by one company tuned by another. But anyone who claims BPM Sport has committed some sort of faux pax by agreeing to tune another company's supercharger is just exposing themselves as an ESS fanboy.

What is this? The 17th Century? Is BPM supposed to turn down opportunities to demonstrate it's tuning capabilities based on some nebulous sense of chivalry?

The only thing ESS might not like about BPM tuning for their superchargers is the potential loss of business if the BPM tunes prove to be as good or better than the ESS tunes. But that's called competition.

And is it really surprising that a tuner thinks it can provide as good or better service than a rival tuner? What is BPM Sport supposed to say? "Ah, gee, that's kinda over our head"?

[pkimM3r]

There are experts out there who only work on certain aspects. Whether its manufacturing high performance parts, building the actual car, providing suspension tuning, or tuning engine management systems. Many of the best cars out there make different stops at these shops in order to build a complete overall car. Im amazed that youve never witnessed this in 20 years! Its laughable.

I dont get excited going in a straight line. Try 150mph (you probably get faster i know) while turning!! Lol

[pkimM3r]

Some say that mike has an old school 7 series turbocharged in his garage.

Wait. I saw it.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by pkim1079

There are experts out there who only work on certain aspects. Whether its manufacturing high performance parts, building the actual car, providing suspension tuning, or tuning engine management systems. Many of the best cars out there make different stops at these shops in order to build a complete overall car. Im amazed that youve never witnessed this in 20 years! Its laughable.

I dont get excited going in a straight line. Try 150mph (you probably get faster i know) while turning!! Lol

Don't disagree with that, but I said that I did witness it, although it was rare, and it was frowned upon unless there was no other option. SS3 does more track events than Airstrip events, agreed it's much more exciting while turning, but i do enjoy going fast and doing a pull against another car as well.

[Maximusdafarmer]

Keeping up with this thread is exhausting haha

[pkimM3r]

Why would it be frowned upon for getting a kit from one company and getting a tune from another? If both companies were experts at one of the two things and you worked with both of them - thats a win in my book. And im not talking about bpm vs ess here. Im talking in general in this sick money pit hobby we all have

If i buy suspension made by X, do i have to use their recommended settings for street and track rather than go to shop X, who does nothing but provide bespoke suspension tuning dialed in for the individuals needs to customer after customer after customer?

Please don't say the analogy is off because its not concerning an FI system. One company did the research to provide a product, and another company provided its "tuning". Conceptually, exactly the same.

I say its open to any company to provide any service on any product out there as well as being fair. If anything this will bring the community even more products and better service and who doesnt want that?

Cheers.

[Soorena]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

BPM has the tuning specs from datalogging SC cars. I would not worry. It knows the ECU well from tuning NA cars. The results should be good. It is great to have tuning alternatives now that the SC kits are coming available used without tunes as people sell their cars.

+1 It's nothing serious and major in other platforms, i don't know why it should be in this platform. Plus here we are talking about canned vs custom tune. Custom tune >> Canned tune, whether your tuner is a respected tuner or a garage tuner as long as it works.

Originally Posted by BuckRodgers

Without direct access to the car and months of testing and data logging this is exactly what you are getting "tune and pray". The only reason someone would be this foolish would be if they were too cheap to buy the real thing. There is nobody in their right mind and who has the funds that would take a home garage tuner making a remote tune on a supercharged car VS the guys who actually spent years perfecting it. The only possible exception would be is if the file was borrowed from an ESS car and reused. Even then not worth the risk IMO. There is no way in hell I would let a 3rd party tune my ESS kit.

That has to be the worst response i've read for a long time. Educate yourself.

[Verify]

edit-readbelow

[Verify]

Originally Posted by SickeM3

1. What was used to do the logging?
2. Benvo hacked into/broke ESS lock on the tuning file?
3. How was it tuned? Road or dyno?
4. how many hours did he spend tuning it?
5. what fuel was it tuned for?
6. what were the before dyno's?
7. where are the after dyno's?


A whole lot of talking with no evidence except for someone claiming- yet again- that this is awesome because i feel the placebo effect but have no actual proof.

and

8. why did you want a retune in the first place?

Originally Posted by THE TECH

1. What was used to do the logging:
Logging was performed using Bavarian Technic, BMW Logger, as well as factory BMW Tools.


so how were factory tools used via the internet as he said the logging/tuning was done..? all cylinders were not logged then


2. you still need to answer this


3. It was first tuned on the dyno, fine tweaked on the road, and retested on the dyno.



awesome, so he doesnt have any dyno's then? before or after? why hide them. you just said he has before and after.

4. DansM car was tuned for 93 octane. But we offer software for those with 91, and 100 octane as well. As previously stated we are also working on E85 software for both supercharged and naturally aspirated platforms.


so how many hours? 1 pre-dyno, 3-4 hours on road, and 1 post dyno session? so where are they? and you think a s/c file can come from scratch in that much time? ok.. thats cute

5 + 6: We've requested that the OP dyno his car at his earliest convenience. I don't think there is a 'placebo' effect with a supercharger.


you just stated above that it was run on a dyno twice.. where are the results?

7: The OP bought the kit used, so this wasn't a 'retune'. He came from an NA BPM Stage II setup with Test Pipes originally.

bold response

FWIW, I think its great to retune. i would encourage it. but from someone that has experience

Originally Posted by MisterEm

Just a minor point of clarification Drew. Evolve indeed has tuned other kits - at the request of the paying customer. There are 2 local ESS kits, and 1 VF kit with Evolve tunes after drive-ability issues were not rectified (no cruise control, throttle lag ) after several flashes and unacceptable car down-time. Two intercooled S54's and 1 non-intercooled S65 kit. Customers were not interested file origin or brand affinity - just results.

I think it would be unfair to paint the Evolve gang in the same brush as Benvo et al - in class and customer service.

After-all, when Mike was wondering about Alpha-n tuning issues (*see attachment*) ESS, AA and Evolve were already DOING it.

EDIT: Original thread was deleted from E46fanatics at the request of said banned user.

that makes my point about a qualified person doing it, thank you

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

...

The 2nd owner of the ESS kit may do whatever he wants, including having a 3rd party program the car, or even tossing the kit in the trash if that's what he elects to do.

actually, the first owner can do whatever he wants with it too

[tightie]

Originally Posted by King Tut

You are welcome. I remember the good ole days when I called you and tightie the Gintani fanbois.

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

Haha, I remember that! Tightie still is, I moved on.

How am I a fan boy? I don't ever participate in discussions that talk about is company a better then company b... No one is ever going to win.

I barely even come on this forum anymore, yet even talk about any gintani products.

Example:
Do I walk around with Gintani written on my chest when other people come up to me at events making it seem like it's the fast and the furious, oh i have a ess supercharger, do you want to run me?

Dude, everyone needs to chill out. I really thought people understand I'm over this tuner drama. I really don't care if I am 1/2 a car faster or slower then another m3. i'll sleep just fine.

anyone that knows me, i'll have friendly runs all day long. if u win, ill say good shit, give u a high five and text u later to see if u want to grab food or something. (ask the random 1m that raced me last weekend that every single bolt on possible.)

i track this car, i don't care that much to go in a straight line.

If ess sells 100 kits, if gintani sells 100 kits, i hate to break it to you, no one wins lol. what do you get out of it? nothing. not a penny.

Half the people don't even know I have a supercharger on my car, there is not a single gintani sticker on my car.

Clearly, I'm not a fan boy.



A sidenote:

Tuning another persons SK Kit:

Let me tell you my experiences, I was the first supercharged M3 in the United States. Someone who will rename nameless who even worked with the company who released the sc kit, tweeked with my supercharged file. All he did was change two degrees of timing. Nothing more, nothing less.

The car ran fine for weeks, months. One day after racing a M6 on the freeway. My motor took a shit, instantly.

You won't know if something is wrong, until it happens. There aren't warning signs.

You are playing with an expensive motor, trust me. Even if you were to rebuild it (if the piston doesnt fly threw) or purchased a preowned one you are looking at 8k bill.

If your motor takes a shit, Mike will blame BMW or ESS. ESS will blame Mike. End of the story.

Have fun, keep modding.

[0-60Motorsports]

^ Good to see you bro.

[Wendall]

Originally Posted by tightie

How am I a fan boy? I don't ever participate in discussions that talk about is company a better then company b... No one is ever going to win.

I barely even come on this forum anymore, yet even talk about any gintani products.

Example:
Do I walk around with Gintani written on my chest when other people come up to me at events making it seem like it's the fast and the furious, oh i have a ess supercharger, do you want to run me?

Dude, everyone needs to chill out. I really thought people understand I'm over this tuner drama. I really don't care if I am 1/2 a car faster or slower then another m3. i'll sleep just fine.

anyone that knows me, i'll have friendly runs all day long. if u win, ill say good shit, give u a high five and text u later to see if u want to grab food or something. (ask the random 1m that raced me last weekend that every single bolt on possible.)

i track this car, i don't care that much to go in a straight line.

If ess sells 100 kits, if gintani sells 100 kits, i hate to break it to you, no one wins lol. what do you get out of it? nothing. not a penny.

Half the people don't even know I have a supercharger on my car, there is not a single gintani sticker on my car.

Clearly, I'm not a fan boy.



A sidenote:

Tuning another persons SK Kit:

Let me tell you my experiences, I was the first supercharged M3 in the United States. Someone who will rename nameless who even worked with the company who released the sc kit, tweeked with my supercharged file. All he did was change two degrees of timing. Nothing more, nothing less.

The car ran fine for weeks, months. One day after racing a M6 on the freeway. My motor took a shit, instantly.

You won't know if something is wrong, until it happens. There aren't warning signs.

You are playing with an expensive motor, trust me. Even if you were to rebuild it (if the piston doesnt fly threw) or purchased a preowned one you are looking at 8k bill.

If your motor takes a shit, Mike will blame BMW or ESS. ESS will blame Mike. End of the story.

Have fun, keep modding.

I have the na bpm tune yet I agree with drew and tightie. Two guys that have a lot of experience with fi s65 engines. I would not want to run a third party tune on fi period. Ess seems to have the reliability of there tune locked down. Why risk a 3rd party tune on an already rod bearing sensitive engine?

[nullrouted]

I think DLSJ5 is just grumpy because his dividend check from ESS was late this month.

[UBER ///M3]

hahahhaha this is great...never ends.....

[rjd598]

Originally Posted by tightie

How am I a fan boy? I don't ever participate in discussions that talk about is company a better then company b... No one is ever going to win.

I barely even come on this forum anymore, yet even talk about any gintani products.

Example:
Do I walk around with Gintani written on my chest when other people come up to me at events making it seem like it's the fast and the furious, oh i have a ess supercharger, do you want to run me?

Dude, everyone needs to chill out. I really thought people understand I'm over this tuner drama. I really don't care if I am 1/2 a car faster or slower then another m3. i'll sleep just fine.

anyone that knows me, i'll have friendly runs all day long. if u win, ill say good shit, give u a high five and text u later to see if u want to grab food or something. (ask the random 1m that raced me last weekend that every single bolt on possible.)

i track this car, i don't care that much to go in a straight line.

If ess sells 100 kits, if gintani sells 100 kits, i hate to break it to you, no one wins lol. what do you get out of it? nothing. not a penny.

Half the people don't even know I have a supercharger on my car, there is not a single gintani sticker on my car.

Clearly, I'm not a fan boy.



A sidenote:

Tuning another persons SK Kit:

Let me tell you my experiences, I was the first supercharged M3 in the United States. Someone who will rename nameless who even worked with the company who released the sc kit, tweeked with my supercharged file. All he did was change two degrees of timing. Nothing more, nothing less.

The car ran fine for weeks, months. One day after racing a M6 on the freeway. My motor took a shit, instantly.

You won't know if something is wrong, until it happens. There aren't warning signs.

You are playing with an expensive motor, trust me. Even if you were to rebuild it (if the piston doesnt fly threw) or purchased a preowned one you are looking at 8k bill.

If your motor takes a shit, Mike will blame BMW or ESS. ESS will blame Mike. End of the story.

Have fun, keep modding.

Who said mike will blame Ess/BMW?

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by tightie

How am I a fan boy? I don't ever participate in discussions that talk about is company a better then company b... No one is ever going to win.

I barely even come on this forum anymore, yet even talk about any gintani products.

Example:
Do I walk around with Gintani written on my chest when other people come up to me at events making it seem like it's the fast and the furious, oh i have a ess supercharger, do you want to run me?

Dude, everyone needs to chill out. I really thought people understand I'm over this tuner drama. I really don't care if I am 1/2 a car faster or slower then another m3. i'll sleep just fine.

anyone that knows me, i'll have friendly runs all day long. if u win, ill say good shit, give u a high five and text u later to see if u want to grab food or something. (ask the random 1m that raced me last weekend that every single bolt on possible.)

i track this car, i don't care that much to go in a straight line.

If ess sells 100 kits, if gintani sells 100 kits, i hate to break it to you, no one wins lol. what do you get out of it? nothing. not a penny.

Half the people don't even know I have a supercharger on my car, there is not a single gintani sticker on my car.

Clearly, I'm not a fan boy.



A sidenote:

Tuning another persons SK Kit:

Let me tell you my experiences, I was the first supercharged M3 in the United States. Someone who will rename nameless who even worked with the company who released the sc kit, tweeked with my supercharged file. All he did was change two degrees of timing. Nothing more, nothing less.

The car ran fine for weeks, months. One day after racing a M6 on the freeway. My motor took a shit, instantly.

You won't know if something is wrong, until it happens. There aren't warning signs.

You are playing with an expensive motor, trust me. Even if you were to rebuild it (if the piston doesnt fly threw) or purchased a preowned one you are looking at 8k bill.

If your motor takes a shit, Mike will blame BMW or ESS. ESS will blame Mike. End of the story.

Have fun, keep modding.

Josh, whatever Tut meant, who cares? I thought it was funny, and I was joking! I don't have a problem with the guy, he came in here and stated his differing opinion, we exchanged a few words, disagreed but like most rational people moved on, clean, done. Of course there are fanboys, cabana boys or whatever, normally though these guys haven't contributed much to the community, they offer little and they throw out the silly "playa gonna hate," or "he's on the payroll", it's shallow, they're kids for the most part and can't stand it when someone disagrees with them so they keep pushing and whining about it. The people here that simply disagree with me have been civil and moved on, we are well past due from being done with what one man thinks, we should get to the stuff that one should be asking when tuning an expensive car with FI for the first time ever instead of going on Blind Faith, nothing wrong with believing in the tuner, but a lot questions need to be answered, I think that's a fair assesment.

Excellent post Josh.

Originally Posted by SickeM3

bold response

FWIW, I think its great to retune. i would encourage it. but from someone that has experience


that makes my point about a qualified person doing it, thank you


actually, the first owner can do whatever he wants with it too

These are some of the type of questions and concerns that I think people need to focus on and discuss instead of being so concerned about what I think. You, Atris and a few others are bringing up much more important, relevant questions and concerns to the thread. Of course the owner of the kit can do whatever he wants, I can't believe these guys think otherwise. Unreal how convoluted this thread has become.

[Longbow64]

It would be great if we could get back to a more technical discussion in this thread. To the OP, it would spark a different conversation if you posted dyno results.

[US///M3]

Originally Posted by tightie

How am I a fan boy? I don't ever participate in discussions that talk about is company a better then company b... No one is ever going to win.

I barely even come on this forum anymore, yet even talk about any gintani products.

Example:
Do I walk around with Gintani written on my chest when other people come up to me at events making it seem like it's the fast and the furious, oh i have a ess supercharger, do you want to run me?

Dude, everyone needs to chill out. I really thought people understand I'm over this tuner drama. I really don't care if I am 1/2 a car faster or slower then another m3. i'll sleep just fine.

anyone that knows me, i'll have friendly runs all day long. if u win, ill say good shit, give u a high five and text u later to see if u want to grab food or something. (ask the random 1m that raced me last weekend that every single bolt on possible.)

i track this car, i don't care that much to go in a straight line.

If ess sells 100 kits, if gintani sells 100 kits, i hate to break it to you, no one wins lol. what do you get out of it? nothing. not a penny.

Half the people don't even know I have a supercharger on my car, there is not a single gintani sticker on my car.

Clearly, I'm not a fan boy.



A sidenote:

Tuning another persons SK Kit:

Let me tell you my experiences, I was the first supercharged M3 in the United States. Someone who will rename nameless who even worked with the company who released the sc kit, tweeked with my supercharged file. All he did was change two degrees of timing. Nothing more, nothing less.

The car ran fine for weeks, months. One day after racing a M6 on the freeway. My motor took a shit, instantly.

You won't know if something is wrong, until it happens. There aren't warning signs.

You are playing with an expensive motor, trust me. Even if you were to rebuild it (if the piston doesnt fly threw) or purchased a preowned one you are looking at 8k bill.

If your motor takes a shit, Mike will blame BMW or ESS. ESS will blame Mike. End of the story.

Have fun, keep modding.

Definitely not a fanboy...
I remember Benvo's personal attacks against you, I paraphrase: you have more money than brain, you're hitting up your old man for cash to mod your car.

awww that Mike what a nice guy!

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by Longbow64

It would be great if we could get back to a more technical discussion in this thread. To the OP, it would spark a different conversation if you posted dyno results.

Agreed, let's see some data.

To The Tech no hard feelings and my apologies if I went a little over the top with you, maybe you can answer these questions that other people and myself are asking.

Did BPM go to Florida to tune the OP car? Or did he tune another car local to him and use that file for the OP in Florida? Did he log it, dyno it to see if everything is in check? Did he custom tune it, or just send the guy a file after the OP sent him some logs? What specific SC cars did he log as another poster here said he did in order to get what he needed to tune a FI car? What did he extract from another kit's logs or ECU to help him tune the OP car? Or did he not use any of that information and just do a tune completely from scratch like all the other SC tuners did?

It took all the well know companies here quite a long time to create a viable FI tune for the S65 on their own kits, how did BPM do it? I think it's fair to ask these questions and get straight answers.

[Soorena]

Originally Posted by nullrouted

I think DLSJ5 is just grumpy because his dividend check from ESS was late this month.