Class Action Lawsuit for Rod Bearing issue, LETS FINALLY DO THIS

[anom3]

i have to agree with s85e90 here.

while bmw probably knows about this rb issue, i am sure if it has reached such a level that this forum thinks it has someone in their risk dept has gone over this and decided its simply financially beneficial to ignore the issue and deal with it the few times they have on a one by one basis.

no one has died because of this, chances are quite high no one ever will.

lets not kid our selves, bmw knows how to make money and have been doing so for decades.

one last point i would add with all this cost benefit analysis... usually, a dollar today is worth one and a half tomorrow. even if the calculations showed that the cost of a recall was the exact same as dealing with X number of deaths... kicking the can down the road wins every time.

Originally Posted by s85e90

Hence the quotes" " ... Of course I copied it from online. It's actually a widely known truth and actually an accepted business practice (as fucked up as it sounds). I'm not arguing. Your post was wrong plain and simple. That's all. I copied a post as who has the time to type all that. BTW check all the references online or in print regarding the Pinto case. It's been well studied/documented. You can pick and chose what to believe on the web and I agree, but this is real life. If you disagree, it's not us agreeing to disagree. You're wrong on the basis of not observing an accepted widely known fact.

[7500rich]

If your prepared to drive at 135mph you better be prepared for the risks associated with doing so.

Yeah it would suck if your engine blew while travelling at that speed and spewed oil on your brakes and caused you to crash, but again your driving at 135mph. There are plenty of things that can go wrong at that speed. Hell your more likely to have a tire blowout.

You could be driving a 6mt and shift from 4th redline into 3rd instead of 5th, blow a rod through the block and make a post leaving out the minor shifting error. It would be pandomonium on here! Especially from one of our fellow members from belgium

When bmw decides to make an engine, especially one that revs like this, they have to factor in this what if a new car engine blows and causes a fatality. To an automotive manufacturer this is the cost of doing business.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Scrippy

Yeah, I'm gonna say no. The M3 is a nicer Corvette, Mustang, Camaro. I could buy a Boss Mustang and smoke my or anyone's M3 all day. Exotic is exotic and production numbers and cost are the real factors. Don't get me wrong, I love BMW's but they are not on the level of Ferrari, Lamborghini, Porsche, Masaratti, or many more. So this god damn motor shouldn't have the issues people are having. It is capable on a track but not a race car.

did i say BMW was on the level on of those companies? i said they(BMW) made a engine that was in the direction of something the exotic car companies would make.

the S65 and S85. the S85 is a dam V10 high revving engine for F sake. who makes those type of engines?

[Scrippy]

Originally Posted by Ezio

did i say BMW was on the level on of those companies? i said they(BMW) made a engine that was in the direction of something the exotic car companies would make.

the S65 and S85. the S85 is a dam V10 high revving engine for F sake. who makes those type of engines?

High revving doesn't mean sophistication bud. The S65 is just a small V8. I think the biggest unique trick the S65 pony has is variable valve control via vanos control. This is not breaking any industry standards. At least the M5 motor has two turbos strapped on it. I understand your view and I'm not going to try and change your mind. But for people to say.......it's a sewing machine, noises are normal, Rod bearings should fail in this mystical motor is all crap. It's just a V8 NA motor. Please enlighten me to its sophistication in comparison to other V8's on the market. Please explain to me why my buddies 1992 Mustang 5.0 with exhaust and a blower has over 300,000 miles on original engine parts and it will destroy my M3 and it costs $35000 with its upgrades. I'm not picking on you bud but everyone is ignoring the fact people are having their M3's die and it's not fair.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Scrippy

High revving doesn't mean sophistication bud. The S65 is just a small V8. I think the biggest unique trick the S65 pony has is variable valve control via vanos control. This is not breaking any industry standards. At least the M5 motor has two turbos strapped on it. I understand your view and I'm not going to try and change your mind. But for people to say.......it's a sewing machine, noises are normal, Rod bearings should fail in this mystical motor is all crap. It's just a V8 NA motor. Please enlighten me to its sophistication in comparison to other V8's on the market. Please explain to me why my buddies 1992 Mustang 5.0 with exhaust and a blower has over 300,000 miles on original engine parts and it will destroy my M3 and it costs $35000 with its upgrades. I'm not picking on you bud but everyone is ignoring the fact people are having their M3's die and it's not fair.

nothing is ever ground breaking anymore. unless you are driving a La Ferrari.

I haven't seen many engines like the S65 and S85 other than engines that come out of Lamborghini and Ferrari.

the S65 has over 100HP for every liter ( for a naturally aspirated engine). it revs past 8kRPM , It has individual throttle bodies.

I was driving a Ls3 camaro SS, when i was looking into E92 M3s. I was amazed how much power a little 4.0L engine was putting out. How cool it sounded also. the only comparable engine i see is a Ferrari v8 engine. that is going to give you the same type of high revving feeling.

[Petros]

Originally Posted by Ezio

did i say BMW was on the level on of those companies? i said they(BMW) made a engine that was in the direction of something the exotic car companies would make.

the S65 and S85. the S85 is a dam V10 high revving engine for F sake. who makes those type of engines?

they ain't all that high revving. honda has been making even more high revving engines for decades. and they don't fail or have any problems. exotic my ass.

[Petros]

Originally Posted by Ezio

nothing is ever ground breaking anymore. unless you are driving a La Ferrari.

I haven't seen many engines like the S65 and S85 other than engines that come out of Lamborghini and Ferrari.

the S65 has over 100HP for every liter ( for a naturally aspirated engine). it revs past 8kRPM , It has individual throttle bodies.

I was driving a Ls3 camaro SS, when i was looking into E92 M3s. I was amazed how much power a little 4.0L engine was putting out. How cool it sounded also. the only comparable engine i see is a Ferrari v8 engine. that is going to give you the same type of high revving feeling.

honda has been making high revving high specific output engines forever. are they also exotic engines?

do you know why no one makes engines like this anymore? because no one gives a damn about high revving! The S65 has substandard performance among all over V8 motors in its class. It has a mediocre torque output, more in line with a V6 engine. It has one of the worst fuel economy figures among all performance cars in its price and performance. It doesn't respond well to mods other than supercharging. It costs an arm and a leg to buy, and repair. All this makes it unappealing to many buyers. That's why BMW moved to turbocharging instead of trying to further develop the S65 and S85 and try to eke out better fuel economy or performance out of them. That's also why the small block chevy, not the S65, is the benchmark performance v8 motor and the one most sought after.

The S65 is a mass produced engine in a mass produced car. It should absolutely be able to hit 100k miles without a hiccup. That's a totally reasonable expectation.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by Petros

honda has been making high revving high specific output engines forever. are they also exotic engines?

do you know why no one makes engines like this anymore? because no one gives a damn about high revving! The S65 has substandard performance among all over V8 motors in its class. It has a mediocre torque output, more in line with a V6 engine. It has one of the worst fuel economy figures among all performance cars in its price and performance. It doesn't respond well to mods other than supercharging. It costs an arm and a leg to buy, and repair. All this makes it unappealing to many buyers. That's why BMW moved to turbocharging instead of trying to further develop the S65 and S85 and try to eke out better fuel economy or performance out of them. That's also why the small block chevy, not the S65, is the benchmark performance v8 motor and the one most sought after.

The S65 is a mass produced engine in a mass produced car. It should absolutely be able to hit 100k miles without a hiccup. That's a totally reasonable expectation.

its more than just high revving. OK maybe the S65 is pushing it, but the S85 is a borderline exotic engine. and the S65 is based off that. I wont call them exotic engines though. because its to much for people. Even if the S85 revs like a lambo, sounds like a lambo, makes power almost like a lambo. those hondas i am sure also have that going for them .


a high revving concept can work. it just takes more money. people love them when they make actual power. like a F12 V12 660HP Ferrari. they sounds sweet, and rev high.

People dont care about high revving because people cant afford cars that are made for high revving. Its way easier and cheaper to pick up a turbocharged car that makes crazy power. Honesty i am pretty excited to get my c7 corvette because i miss having "real" power. If i had the money, my first three cars would be f12 Ferrari, lamborghini hurrcan, GT3 Porsche. So i really like the high revving motors, but like i said it takes money.

[FogCityM3]

Because: perfect engine

Achieving probably the closest power/torque curve to the perfect engine is why the S65 was an incredible feat for the time and is still 8 years later. Also why is used in numerous race applications. Turbos are not the way the M-division wanted to go had the not be beholden to emissions standards, this is a fact. Ferrari themselves with turbos are trying to mimic the power/torque curves of N/A engines.

Originally Posted by Petros

honda has been making high revving high specific output engines forever. are they also exotic engines?

do you know why no one makes engines like this anymore? because no one gives a damn about high revving! The S65 has substandard performance among all over V8 motors in its class. It has a mediocre torque output, more in line with a V6 engine. It has one of the worst fuel economy figures among all performance cars in its price and performance. It doesn't respond well to mods other than supercharging. It costs an arm and a leg to buy, and repair. All this makes it unappealing to many buyers. That's why BMW moved to turbocharging instead of trying to further develop the S65 and S85 and try to eke out better fuel economy or performance out of them. That's also why the small block chevy, not the S65, is the benchmark performance v8 motor and the one most sought after.

The S65 is a mass produced engine in a mass produced car. It should absolutely be able to hit 100k miles without a hiccup. That's a totally reasonable expectation.

[MFKN3]

There's quite a lot of engine failures in Oz. I know more people who have had their S65 fail than not. There's also a few in Asia I know of.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

Because: perfect engine

Achieving probably the closest power/torque curve to the perfect engine is why the S65 was an incredible feat for the time and is still 8 years later. Also why is used in numerous race applications. Turbos are not the way the M-division wanted to go had the not be beholden to emissions standards, this is a fact. Ferrari themselves with turbos are trying to mimic the power/torque curves of N/A engines.

Ferrari even has publicly stated their dislike for turbo engines on top of trying to mimic N/A engine.

Turbos work well with marketing though. People hear the phase "twin turbo" they think the engine is a monster. When really car makers are lowing displacement and chopping cylinders out. So its not like they are taking there naturally aspirated motors and putting a twin turbo on it ( like they do in the aftermarket).

[FogCityM3]

Exactly, talk to anyone who tracks regularly (amateur and pro) and has experienced numerous vehicles, the preference for N/A is very high. Over the past year, have encountered many M4 drivers at the track and the lag and sudden surge of torque are the major complaints. You get a very different impression talking to people compared to what you see on reviews, but then again all those I've encountered have long experience sets that span a wide variety of cars, including BMWs and Ms of the past, so the perspectives seem to be less "I own it therefore it's the best" biased and much more comparative.

Understand that not everyone tracks and turbos work great for daily driven vehicles and torquier, fuel efficient cruising and seat of pants acceleration feel, but little of that matters in at-the-limit performance situations where predictable/smooth power delivery, instantaneous response and ability to modulate the throttle to delicately maintain the vehicle at/beyond the limits of adhesion and reigning back in are crucial.

Originally Posted by Ezio

Ferrari even has publicly stated their dislike for turbo engines on top of trying to mimic N/A engine.

Turbos work well with marketing though. People hear the phase "twin turbo" they think the engine is a monster. When really car makers are lowing displacement and chopping cylinders out. So its not like they are taking there naturally aspirated motors and putting a twin turbo on it ( like they do in the aftermarket).

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

Exactly, talk to anyone who tracks regularly (amateur and pro) and has experienced numerous vehicles, the preference for N/A is very high. Over the past year, have encountered many M4 drivers at the track and the lag and sudden surge of torque are the major complaints. You get a very different impression talking to people compared to what you see on reviews, but then again all those I've encountered have long experience sets that span a wide variety of cars, including BMWs and Ms of the past, so the perspectives seem to be less "I own it therefore it's the best" biased and much more comparative.

Understand that not everyone tracks and turbos work great for daily driven vehicles and torquier, fuel efficient cruising and seat of pants acceleration feel, but little of that matters in at-the-limit performance situations where predictable/smooth power delivery, instantaneous response and ability to modulate the throttle to delicately maintain the vehicle at/beyond the limits of adhesion and reigning back in are crucial.

sadly though most people just care about power of the engine. Which is why car companies will get away with making turbo engines.

Its like the guys who tracked made the expensive, high revving, N/A, responsive S65 engine at BMW.

then came the accountants/stockholders and marketing team who made the S55.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Where are all the lawyers ?

[4corners]

Lawyers almost never post online. Evidence that can and will be used against you.

[grantmax]

Originally Posted by 4corners

Lawyers almost never post online. Evidence that can and will be used against you.

True story. Phone calls only.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Right , and in the mean while nothing happens...

[OneMmmm]

We could also all follow BMW's recommended 15k mile oil change, drive the living shit out of ours cars and grenade them all. They may say something then.

Until that happens, I think we're shit out of luck.

[Leonardo629]

Originally Posted by OneMmmm

We could also all follow BMW's recommended 15k mile oil change, drive the living shit out of ours cars and grenade them all. They may say something then.

Until that happens, I think we're shit out of luck.

It's now 10,000mi instead of 15,000mi.

I'm pretty sure 1 in 10 is sufficient enough for a class action lawsuit.

[OneMmmm]

Originally Posted by Leonardo629

It's now 10,000mi instead of 15,000mi.

I'm pretty sure 1 in 10 is sufficient enough for a class action lawsuit.

When did they change the recommendation for E9x M3s to 10k?

[G80indy]

10k OCI
For a race engine !

[jim1013yyf]

i'd support the action