My E90 M3 Dedicated Track build (with pix!)

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Well, Tesla released another fastest four door at Laguna Seca record claim. Clearly they haven't heard of The Dogbone. Instead they just compare to production cars on street tires, even though their car is neither production nor on street tires.

Stay on them!!! Tell them The Dogbone sent you!!! hahahaha

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by dogbone

Stay on them!!! Tell the The Dogbone sent you!!! hahahaha

Haha my brother is a Tesla cult member, so he always sends me these Tesla marketing scams and I have to debunk them. Thank you for helping me with this one!

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Well, Tesla released another fastest four door at Laguna Seca record claim. Clearly they haven't heard of The Dogbone. Instead they just compare to production cars on street tires, even though their car is neither production nor on street tires.

What do you expect? Retard car #1

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Haha my brother is a Tesla cult member, so he always sends me these Tesla marketing scams and I have to debunk them. Thank you for helping me with this one!

What lap time are they saying they did these days?

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by dogbone

What lap time are they saying they did these days?

1:35.79 for a modded model 3 from "Unplugged Performance". From the photos, it looks like it's on Michelin slicks.

[e36clubracer]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

1:35.79 for a modded model 3 from "Unplugged Performance". From the photos, it looks like it's on Michelin slicks.

If they really are slicks and not just Pilot Sport Cup 2s they are probably worth 4+ seconds a lap over a street tire...

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by e36clubracer

If they really are slicks and not just Pilot Sport Cup 2s they are probably worth 4+ seconds a lap over a street tire...

uhhhh----those are slicks.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

1:35.79 for a modded model 3 from "Unplugged Performance". From the photos, it looks like it's on Michelin slicks.

ah---and Randy Pobst driving. Well, I'm sure someday they'll get to 1:34.3. But that day is not today! Hopefully, I can get back out there with my carbon doors and drop into the 33s.

Actually, just got some news! My car is back in CA! Just found out now! It returned on Friday. The transport guy didn't tell us he was doing the run. I was actually considering just leaving it in TX until Feb. I guess I need to start sorting out new plans.

And one other interesting tidbit: My car sat for a full 6 months in a trailer in Houston where it's crazy hot and humid. They had to start my car to shift some stuff around. After 6 full months without being touched, the car fired up like it had been run yesterday. Yay VoltPhreaks-with-a-power-switch!!

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by dogbone

And one other interesting tidbit: My car sat for a full 6 months in a trailer in Houston where it's crazy hot and humid. They had to start my car to shift some stuff around. After 6 full months without being touched, the car fired up like it had been run yesterday. Yay VoltPhreaks-with-a-power-switch!!

Wow that's really good info. Makes the aftermarket battery even more appealing.

[//steve\\]

The actual battery has a power switch? or you have a secondary one setup?

[Richbot]

There's a restart switch. If it detects parasitic draw without charging that could cause an undervolt, or just gets too low, it shuts itself off from the car to keep enough juice in the orange for another start, which can last months (pobviously) as the LiFePo batteries just have incredibly long endurance compared to other common chemistries if you don't put any load on them. You push a button to switch the battery back on when you're ready to try to start it. It's worked every time on my car the few times (3-ish since 2017) I've been dumb and needed it.

The tesla record is really cool. It's amazing what the cars are capable of, and they're cranking out thousands per week, unlocking the inner hoon in the heart of thousands of people per week as a result. But them's slicks bruh, and them's not a street car no mo, call a track rat a track rat. FWIW, UPR's own tweet/media seems to suggest tehy're only claiming a new EV production car record whatever that even means. The car barely has any wing on it, it looks like it's still got the glass roof, it's not even close to developed to the level of the E9x platform in general. Nor should it be, the whole damn company is younger than the E9x Seems like there are also several Model 3's that are just as or more developed than that one, being developed by SCCA or TT folks, but I don't think I know anybody who has just sent it with stripping 200lb of interior out of the car and thrown slicks on. Model 3 doesn't ened much to be absurdly quick...for a few laps anyway

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by //steve\\

The actual battery has a power switch? or you have a secondary one setup?

I don't know if the battery has a switch on it that you can press. I never saw the battery before it went into the car.

Voltphreaks sells a remote pushbutton wiring harness. You just connect it to the battery and put the button somewhere convenient. It's on my dash. Press and hold to turn the battery completely off. Press and release quickly to turn the battery on.

Edit: ahhh richbot says it has a button can you press

[dogbone]

And if you hurry to the VoltPhreaks site, a VPR-P6 can be had for the low low price of $99,999.00.......there's gotta be a better way to disable ordering than that......

[//steve\\]

Originally Posted by Richbot

There's a restart switch. If it detects parasitic draw without charging that could cause an undervolt, or just gets too low, it shuts itself off from the car. You push a button to switch the battery back on when you're ready to try to start it. It's worked every time on my car the few times (3-ish since 2017) I've been dumb and needed it.

The tesla record is really cool. It's amazing what the cars are capable of, and they're cranking out thousands per week, unlocking the inner hoon in the heart of thousands of people per week as a result. But them's slicks bruh, and them's not a street car no mo, call a track rat a track rat. FWIW, UPR's own tweet/media seems to suggest tehy're only claiming a new EV production car record whatever that even means. The car barely has any wing on it, it looks like it's still got the glass roof, it's not even close to developed to the level of the E9x platform in general. Nor should it be, the whole damn company is younger than the E9x

I wish I could get more excited about the electric car thing because it's our inevitable future. But those soulless machines just don't get me excited at all. Not even a little. Makes me sad to think my kids won't be able to enjoy the sounds and smell of cars like we all know it today. /rant

[Richbot]

I think you just have to rethink what is important to you about driving. The engine is a dominant part of driving a car well now. In the future, if electrics are the future of motorsport, you are just going to have to re-learn how to manage a powertrain from scratch, which can be fun, and you're going to have to just spend a lot more of your mental bandwidth managing the friction circle. Right now an ICE-acclimated car guy gets in an EV and starts to push and there's just a huge void where 30% of the driver's attention used to be (on engine and gearbox) and nothing has replaced it yet. We'll adapt. NEver fear.

But love ling the E9xM

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by //steve\\

I wish I could get more excited about the electric car thing because it's our inevitable future. But those soulless machines just don't get me excited at all. Not even a little. Makes me sad to think my kids won't be able to enjoy the sounds and smell of cars like we all know it today. /rant

There are two things at play for me.

One is the complete snoozefest I feel about any electric car, especially the thousand pounds of batteries they require.

The other is the fucking retarded Tesla fanboys. The idiots that say you get 340 miles of range and also charge in 30 minutes, all while doing 0-60 in 3 seconds. And driving itself!

Also, you have people's inability to do basic math. One day a Tesla or some other electric piece of shit will be able to lap the Glen at the same pace as an M3. Hooray! And how many laps exactly can it hold that up?
People literally don't get it: if you are filling up your car after every 30 minute session, there is no fucking way an electric car will be able to fill up in that time. It's orders of magnitude off.
Are we planning on putting a power plant at the Glen to fuel up the 250 cars there? Or are we going to take the cheap route and only put a 400kV power line to the Glen? All coming from fairy-tale energy sources, of course!

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

There are two things at play for me.

One is the complete snoozefest I feel about any electric car, especially the thousand pounds of batteries they require.

The other is the fucking retarded Tesla fanboys. The idiots that say you get 340 miles of range and also charge in 30 minutes, all while doing 0-60 in 3 seconds. And driving itself!

Also, you have people's inability to do basic math. One day a Tesla or some other electric piece of shit will be able to lap the Glen at the same pace as an M3. Hooray! And how many laps exactly can it hold that up? People literally misunderstand that if you are filling up your car after every 30 minute session, there is no fucking way an electric car will be able to fill up in that time.

haha! Don't hold back! Tell us what you really think!

When I was at Laguna Seca years ago, Speed Ventures was running special run groups for just the electric cars. I stopped in the charging area and chatted with one of the owners. He was saying the cars don't run out of charge on the track----instead, it's that the battery packs get so hot from producing such a high output, that the battery packs need a break to cool down. I guess it's not so different a problem as our gas engines overheating......

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by dogbone

haha! Don't hold back! Tell us what you really think!

When I was at Laguna Seca years ago, Speed Ventures was running special run groups for just the electric cars. I stopped in the charging area and chatted with one of the owners. He was saying the cars don't run out of charge on the track----instead, it's that the battery packs get so hot from producing such a high output, that the battery packs need a break to cool down. I guess it's not so different a problem as our gas engines overheating......

If they are ever able to do decent laps then they will run out of juice. If a stint takes half the gas tank of a car it'll take more than the entire battery, which will then need to be recharged.
As it stands right now the thought of real track use and electric cars is nonsensical.

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

If they are ever able to do decent laps then they will run out of juice. If a stint takes half the gas tank of a car it'll take more than the entire battery, which will then need to be recharged.
As it stands right now the thought of real track use and electric cars is nonsensical.

But, 0-60 and center of mass and and...they have the fastest four door at Laguna if you don't include all of the other four doors that have run at Laguna!

[fsmtnbiker]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

340 miles of range and also charge in 30 minutes, all while doing 0-60 in 3 seconds. And driving itself!

So, they do actually do all of these things?

340 miles of EPA rated range, yes. You can debate about the actual number but the test is the same for every car and manufacturer. I’ve gotten the rated range number in a Tesla about as often as I’ve gotten the rated EPA mileage in the M3... rarely.

Recharge in 30 minutes - it’s closer to 20 minutes on the newest superchargers. This isn’t charging 0-100%, that’s almost never a use case worth covering. A 250kw supercharger will add 75% of the total capacity of the battery in 22 minutes.

0-60 in 3 seconds, yeah I think this is pretty well established. All of the performance models can hit around this number (or considerably faster for the S.)


That all being said, I still prefer to track my M3. I’ve probably spent more time driving a Tesla at/beyond the limits than almost anyone out there. It’s my job. They have their up and downsides. They *are* heavy, although by today’s standards they are hardly heavier than the cars in their class... and the technology is only getting better - by leaps and bounds. Do I still feel that the Tesla is much better suited to being a commuting appliance than a sports car? Absolutely. But it doesn’t make it a bad tool for track use either. People complain it overheats after just a few laps - so does an E92 if driven hard. People think charging is a huge obstacle - this varies by track and locale. Some locations have more nearby infrastructure than others. Many tracks have 50A RV outlets which gets you about 10% battery charge per hour on a 3. Will it keep you fully topped up all day? No, but it will get you through the day on most tracks.

If you don’t like electric cars, that’s fine. I don’t love them in every application. I do think that for daily/commuting work, they are superior in almost any imaginable way to a gas car. There is still plenty of room for the tech to improve, unlike the internal combustion engine which has been eeking out tiny efficiency gains for the last 30 years.

[tsk94]

I've tracked quite a few cars over the years, including a lot of different BMW's, and enjoyed them all in their own way. I've had just as much fun driving a FWD R53 Mini and Porsche's compared to my M3. Capabilities of the car vary drastically, but at the end of the day they are all fun to drive out on track.

I also really enjoy the process of learning to drive and setup a new platform, ie. FWD, rear engine Porsche etc. For me that's half of the fun. I'm sure down the road I will track an electric car for at least a season or two, and I look forward to the idea of it as well.

I understand it's not for everyone, but at the end of the day we all do this for fun. If you're out there having a good time that's what counts - doesn't matter what car you're doing it in.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by fsmtnbiker

So, they do actually do all of these things?

340 miles of EPA rated range, yes. You can debate about the actual number but the test is the same for every car and manufacturer. I’ve gotten the rates range number in a Tesla about as often as I’ve gotten the rated EPA mileage in the M3... rarely.

Recharge in 30 minutes - it’s closer to 20 minutes on the newest superchargers. This isn’t charging 0-100%, that’s almost never a use case worth covering. A 250kw supercharger will add 75% of the total capacity of the battery in 22 minutes.

0-60 in 3 seconds, yeah I think this is pretty well established. All of the performance models can hit around this number (or considerably faster for the S.)
.

They don't drive themselves. The darwin awards given to people who thought they did drive themselves are pretty clear on that.

Range is rated at ~340, yet delivers barely over 200 driving at 75mph. Driving at 75mph is liable to get you killed or run over in any highway in the tristate area.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...tesla-model-s/
The key difference between an electric car with bad range and a gasoline car with bad range is you fill the gas one at around 6000kWh, vs '250kWh' in the fantasies of people who don't do math real good.

Here's the breakout about these '250kWh' chargers meant to confuse the feedbleminded
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3...harger-tested/
So with a '150kWh' charger it charges at 72.6kWh average and with a '250kWh' charger it does 73.7kWh. Wow.

If a 250kWh charger adds 75% in 22 minutes as you say... you'd better not need 100% as that took over an hour.


As I said earlier, bad math and a lack of understanding of fundamentals around power, energy and energy storage.