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01-06-2014, 06:23 PM | #133 |
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The i8 will probably be ground breaking for about 18 months following its release. After that I expect it will be outdated, and it will probably depreciate faster than a 7 series sedan. So much for BMW heritage that has been sold short in such a short space of time. In my opinion M models are now the only BMW model that is worth owning if you care about engineering.
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01-06-2014, 06:28 PM | #134 | |
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Look at used Z8 and 1M prices ... one thing I do not expect is for the i8 to depreciate "faster than a 7 series sedan". I think you're off base but only time will tell. |
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01-06-2014, 06:52 PM | #135 | |
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i understand what the I8 is, and trust me i understand why its important to some people. i am all for the going green movement. i think its very important. As long as BMW can get away with still offering performance cars, where the focus is performance! the new M4 has big shoes to fill. for the first time in a M3, one of the big focus was on getting better MPG. last generations were balls to the wall style of motors. also the number of cylinders does not mean big engine. just because its a V12 does not mean its a big engine. those old V12 engine still were no bigger than the current V8 engines made today by M. benz makes the bigger motors. big = displacement. but i do understand what you are trying to say. and for the most BMW is not known for making big motors. where GM is. and rather BMW still makes emotionally appealing cars, thats totally opinion based. for some one who loved the old E46, E92, E60 M cars. BMW has gotten soft and makes less appealing engines ( IMO). so not everyone is happy. you gotta respect that. just read comments on here and other threads. SOME people are not that thrilled with BMW ATM. Last edited by Ezio; 01-06-2014 at 06:57 PM.. |
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01-07-2014, 01:57 AM | #136 |
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To me the CLA is not an appealing car. I dislike pretty much ever merc except the SLS now that's a beauty. If BMW would release a car that's less than 29 thousand dollars with a nav inside of, it would sell like hot cakes and retake the crown once again. I don't like people who are like I drive a Mercedes Benz and have a smirky face and then I'm like which one and their like the CLA and I'm like -__- are you fucking kidding me?
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01-07-2014, 02:51 AM | #137 | |
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You haven't been exactly accurate for some while now.. All we hear now is a marketing B.S on an enthusiast forum. But I understand, you are a pawn in BMW's hands good luck man and it's really tough to be in your shoes right now It's just a matter of time
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01-07-2014, 04:30 AM | #138 |
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Odd, how many BMW's use the BMW formula today..? (RWD + LSD) For instance, I have a 6month old $52,000 BMW 135is.. that doesn't have a LSD. So it is not a true BMW, even though it has the "S" moniker. (I was duped by your e-marketing, and further, cannot even easily add one). Same for the 3-series. So? So, not only has BMW strayed from their rear wheel drive heritage, they circumvent customers from getting a real, rwd car from BMW (unless they buy into the M). Scott, a simple 325is in the 90s had a LSD (or at least had the option) so laugh at Audi all you want, BMW has not been true to their customer in 15 years. Most here are done complaining and trying to explain to BMW why we are leaving. You guys will figure it all out, when we are all driving your competitor's cars & BMW becomes the biggest SUV manufacturer. This level of un-focused attention to your core & uber-reliance on marketing has a cost. No enthusuaist cars, but BMW now makes suvs/savs, or this, or that? I never heard anyone ask, or make a plea for an Active Tourer, but I have for a M135i in America, or a small sportwagon, or something other than just a 135i/335i. Epic fail and the reason the core client are leaving & trying other brands. Or ever wonder why so many others, have been waiting on a true successor to the e46 M3, because it was quintessential BMW stuff.. ie: 1M. So, You cannot laugh at Audi for being AWD/FWD focused, when only a few of the cars YOU make, are true RWD. It's called "hypocrisy" and it's laughable that you try to call our Audi, but forget BMW artificially limit their own customers. Again, with simple things such as when you buy a $50k performance BMW and it has a clutch delay valve or no real LSD option, bouncy sub-frame bushings, etc. You've bean-counted away BMW's heritage & it shows. Honestly, does BMW's need more carbon fiber... or less clutch delay valves..? Again SCOTT, BMW isn't pure to their own heritage, don't take that route here on this forum with us. I've been a BMW fan for 35 years & you have little that interest me since the i6 M3. So shame on your smug attitude... there is an exact reason you won't release the price list for the LSD on the M235, because you know it should be stock! Let-alone jack up the price for a mechanical LSD, for a vehicle already has an //M on it...? (let alone optional). Ford doesn't charge for lsds on their sportcars. Guess what, the new S550 Mustang and Alpha/ATS based Z28 will be much less expensive than either an M2 or M4... and then we can buy a secondary American hatchback for DD. FWIW, I forced myself to buy a 135is, because you ran out of 1M's... funny isn't it..? (My car is not worth the BMW price) Last edited by w3rkn; 01-07-2014 at 04:49 AM.. |
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01-07-2014, 08:54 AM | #139 | |
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F30/f32 have an optional MP LSD available this year.
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01-07-2014, 02:26 PM | #141 |
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Yes for an Active Tourer / Gran Tourer /X2. These models have to competitive in their respective markets.
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01-07-2014, 02:37 PM | #142 |
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01-07-2014, 02:52 PM | #143 |
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You guys will figure it all out, when we are all driving your competitor's cars & BMW becomes the biggest SUV manufacturer. This level of un-focused attention to your core & uber-reliance on marketing has a cost. No enthusuaist cars, but BMW now makes suvs/savs, or this, or that?
What cost is that? The global market has changed and for the US the story remains the same they want the SUV. Customers across the globe want the SAV. Why do you think Audi and Mercedes-Benz have outline proposals for new SUVs? BMW SAVs are huge sellers. That's a sign of the times. It is nothing to do with BMW, the markets respond , BMW has to act and adapt. BMW still makes enthusiasts car as they already have been but progression of the market shows that customers choose BMW as a status rather than a choice. And this started in North America. I never heard anyone ask, or make a plea for an Active Tourer, but I have for a M135i in America, or a small sportwagon, or something other than just a 135i/335i. Epic fail and the reason the core client are leaving & trying other brands. Or ever wonder why so many others, have been waiting on a true successor to the e46 M3, because it was quintessential BMW stuff.. ie: 1M. Once again BMW are present in the global market. They look at progression from the market , the customer demographic and the segment. 2er Active Tourer is in a growth segment its also a demanded concept in Europe, for customers who have progressed out with BMW but need the space and flexibility. Active Tourer is a good car to drive because again in amongst the flexibility and spatial purpose you have a car that sits very close to the road more than expected with vehicles in this segment. Such appeal will apply to other markets also including North America. If we look at the F31 it is being outsold in the USA by the X1 and X3, primarily because they want the SUV. Such a car as a Touring will not sell in the US in the quantities expected. When customers in the US are faced with wagon or SUV the SUV wins every time because of its status. So, You cannot laugh at Audi for being AWD/FWD focused, when only a few of the cars YOU make, are true RWD. I am sorry but what FWD BMW is on the market currently? The Active Tourer is the first BMW model. If you refer to MINI? Then you should Drive one. It is well praised for its dynamics. It's called "hypocrisy" and it's laughable that you try to call our Audi, but forget BMW artificially limit their own customers. Again, with simple things such as when you buy a $50k performance BMW and it has a clutch delay valve or no real LSD option, bouncy sub-frame bushings, etc. You've bean-counted away BMW's heritage & it shows. Not every BMW customer wants LSDs etc as the majority are bought for status. The option is there for the customer to decide. BMW are not selling you a VW underneath a fancy frock. Or as known in Munich - Volume disguised as premium.
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01-07-2014, 02:58 PM | #144 | |
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At this point, Max Hoffman is probably laughing hysterically...or crying perhaps.
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01-07-2014, 03:03 PM | #145 | |
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Sorry but I am in Asia constantly regarding BMWi and I am seeing how appreciated and excited customers are about the i3 and i8 and seeing how other customers act regarding other new models such as the M3 and M4 (Austin Yellow will be popular in China) . And where are we as a company? A leader. Innovator ,We control the momentum. We might be second in the USA, but we are still no1. And sales in nearly all markets have grown in 2013 because of new products. We expect a very good 2014 Because there is a lot of new models arriving and we will have full sales runs globally on cars that were launched just before the close of the year. Then we have new MINI on sale and Rolls-Royce which we have just unveiled the Ghost V Specification. A Wraith powered Ghost with over 600PS.
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01-07-2014, 03:06 PM | #146 | |
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The rest of market does not want. You cannot sustain a model on sales that register a handful.
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01-07-2014, 03:11 PM | #147 | |
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I do not know if you were present here at that time but those that did received their cars.
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01-07-2014, 04:08 PM | #148 | |
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Since BMW has NEVER even bothered to bring such a car as I mentioned to the US market, it's total speculation on their part. Not once have they imported a hot wagon or 5-door with a 6MT, trick suspension, LSD, etc. If they put together something like an M135i ZHP in a 5-door configuration where ZHP equals LSD, sunroof optional, sports seats, M-sport+ suspension, etc, I seriously doubt they would have trouble selling every single one they import. That they haven't capitalized in the past 9 years on the huge goodwill attached to the ZHP moniker that exists in the USA marketplace tells you something about the current market planning operation...one major opportunity Max would not have left hanging dry.
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01-08-2014, 08:25 PM | #149 | |
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Sorry, I am not going to accept you lip-service..! The term "Global market for the US" is an oxymoron statement & "growth segment" is just your way of saying BMW want to pursue the super small SUV segment in Asia, but need a Country to dump the active tourer on, while BMW figures out Asian channels. Right? No American is screaming for a mini-BMW sport activity vehicle. Secondly, BMW's marketing in America is awkward and probably only parsed in California (west coast). You claim marketing statistics, but those numbers are skewed (as mentioned in this thread), as you don't offer AWD wagons, or hot hatches in America... so how can you claim "Active Tourer is a good car to drive because again in amongst the flexibility and spatial purpose you have a car that sits very close to the road more than expected with vehicles in this segment. Such appeal will apply to other markets also including North America." ...? The M135i, (or 2-series hatchback) serves the EXACT same purpose... if it had AWD. (There is zero utility difference in an AWD M135 & an Active Tourer) Thirdly, "I am sorry but what FWD BMW is on the market currently?" Sorry my friend, but please step back from your hubris and answer the question put forth to you. Out of the 13, or so models in BMW's arsenal, how many follow BMW heritage of, true RWD..? How many models even have an option for true RWD..? (NONE...) Coincidentally, your remarks are troublesome, because for the past 15 years I've wanted a LSD on every BMW I've ever wanted to buy... why wasn't it an option? And just because an LSD is now a $2k option on the 235i, You can't erase 15 years of history of no LSD and welded differentials. So don't mock Audi, when BMW themselves have artificial sold their RWD heritage away... as I have a $52k sports car from BMW without an optional LSD. (Which is BMW sacrilege.) SCOTT, if you continue to think the "most people buy a BMW for the status", instead of their handling characteristics & BMW drive... then I understand why BMW is now making cars, that are comparable to Cadillac & Audi. As there is very little that differentiates BMW's from the rest of the world anymore. .... except maybe clutch delay valve... on a sports car. I wonder if GM puts those in their corvettes & Audi on their S3s..? Last edited by w3rkn; 01-08-2014 at 11:27 PM.. |
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01-08-2014, 11:29 PM | #151 | |
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01-09-2014, 06:55 AM | #152 | |
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So just remember everyone: BMWNA market planning are heroic god-like figures who never make a mistake because they know that "status" is the only thing that matters to Americans anymore. This is why they pawn off crap like "electronic LSD" based on braking opposite side bs since those seeking this vaunted "status" won't care, won't know, etc. The motto is now apparently "milk the market of status-seeking numnuts as hard and as long as possible" before it falls apart. They "know as fact" that an M135i ZHP would never sell here, which of course is total bs just like they "knew as fact" that there was no business case in North America for the E36 M3 and it took a massive letter writing campaign from the BMWCCA to rectify their stupidity. The door has never been left open wider for the competition. The more denials from the insiders that this is true, the stronger that case is made. Audi and Mercedes have that opportunity to bust the door frame all apart not to mention some other makers. I actually wish I was at the helm of Audi NA at the moment since we'd make some moves that would seriously exploit this situation...
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01-10-2014, 10:33 AM | #153 | |
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This is a great post and directly mirrors nearly the exact same conversation I had on New Years Eve. (SCOTT should print his post out, & pass it around the office) I think 2015 is going to be a really confusing year for BMW. Possibly an ousted exec. They have no clue what BMW's image stood for, and are going after mad profits, on the laurels of BMW's heritage & previous offerings. Problem is, BMW's cars are all full of fluff & numbers now, zero substance. BMW is making Asian BMW's for America. We just want the cars you offer in your own country, nothing more. It's called respect and SCOTT you've lost a lot of respect with the BMW core, because of your flippant views of what constitutes American driver & a BMW enthusiast. Again, if BMW wants to make cars just good enough, to sell the BMW badge.. then there is zero reason to buy a BMW car. BMW cars use to be the Ultimate Driving Machine, now they are just average cars w/BMW badge. But that is ok, because Your revenues are still ranked in the world? Honestly SCOTT, nobody cares about BMW themselves, or how well they are doing financially. People ONLY care about the actual cars BMW produces. We are not the Quandt Family... we don't care about BMW's bottom line, only that we once loved BMWs and wondering where our relationship has gone. Why have you sold us off..? Scott: Does the world really need to wait to 2016, before BMW can breathe and say: Behold.. a true BMW... witness the M2 ..? Because as it stand, the ONLY quintessential BMW on the roads today, are the E46 M3 and the 1M. That doesn't leave much room for gloating or lipservice on BMW's part... Or, You guys still wondering, if a 183", $60,000 M4 is the answer..? I know Mercedes Benz & Audi are listening, cuz I am now looking at their brands. Very easy to do when BMW copied them. |
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01-14-2014, 07:36 AM | #154 |
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So what's up with the following article then?
"BMW posts record sales for 2013 ahead of M-B and Audi" http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...ticle16295056/ |
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