Anyone miss driving a manual?

[FreddieDB]

Nope. Never stopped.

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Does that count for motorcycles too? I've been using a clutch since the 8th Grade. I required knee replacements at 50 and 52 years old. Never thought it was knee cancer from using a clutch. Dammit!

Ever watch Sons of Anarchy? Clay had his wife inject cortisone or some sort of pain killers into his hands from so much riding over the years. Manual shifting cancer is real.

[Vuu]

Missed it and made sure the M3 was a 6 speed when searching.

[Conissah]

Every "car" (300zx, G35, M2C, Miata, M3) I've ever owned has been manual. SUVs and trucks were all auto, but I never stopped driving manual.

[Merlin_83]

All of my BMWs are manual (6-speed) my kids, both of them learned how to drive with the two 335i's I have. One is an X-Drive 335 E90 and the other is an E90 335i, which has the OEM factory Performance Package One. Which I think is the same tune applied to the 335is. The car is also M-Sport equipped too, with the sport steering wheel, sports seats, and brakes and some of the suspension connecting pieces are also M-Sport. It is very, very stiff - but handles amazingly well. Especially with Michelin Supersport in a staggered OEM wheels set-up. The 335i X-Drive is sublime with a recent brand new transfer case the car grips the asphalt tightly. The one thing I am looking for and will likely have to buy new from Turner Motorsport or ECS is the Type 162 wheels. This is the staggered set-up on the 335i and the stance is perfect and looks aggressive 'enough'.

Cheers,
Merlin

[///MPhatic]

Nope, as I'm never without at least 1. I have 2 at present.

[JDMSteven]

Nope. Bought my 04 IS300 with the rare 5 speed manual with intentions of swapping in a "Supra" Turbo 2JZ-GTE, single turbo as a fun street car. I've ended up daily driving the damn thing every day for the last 1.5 years as I slowly collect the parts that I need.

I bought a GS300 with an Aristo JDM market 2JZ-GTE VVTI with a single turbo and its setup 99% the way I want it, and will essentially be the heart donor. I just can't stop driving the IS300 long enough to start working on it because it's just so nice to drive an "old school" manual car with a silky smooth 2JZ Inline 6 and a linear clutch pedal. One of these days I'll get around to starting it, but I think I need to find another manual daily first.

[G80indy]

my manual cars since college:
1984 VW Rabbit
1989 Civic
1991 Mitsu Eclipse GSX
1993 Prelude (wife's)
1994 318i
1995 325ic
2000 Z3 roadster
2002 330i
2006 Z4M roadster
2013 M3
2023 M3

[jankisdead]

i do, and then i hit traffic

[Theruleslawyer]

I miss manuals, but to be honest I don't want one in a car I have to daily drive. Its just a hassle. Old auto were so bad that it was worth the trade off on a DD to deal with it in traffic. My DCT is probably 95% of the experience of a manual for me. It shifts amazingly fast. It holds gears. I feel like I'm in control. It just doesn't have a clutch. If I had to choose between a manual and a ZF8 it would be a lot harder.

[JayML]

Attachment 2974649

Originally Posted by Theruleslawyer

I miss manuals, but to be honest I don't want one in a car I have to daily drive. Its just a hassle. Old auto were so bad that it was worth the trade off on a DD to deal with it in traffic. My DCT is probably 95% of the experience of a manual for me. It shifts amazingly fast. It holds gears. I feel like I'm in control. It just doesn't have a clutch. If I had to choose between a manual and a ZF8 it would be a lot harder.

Auto guys always say that. I can get 95% of what I want in an auto. Thats why you drive it. Because its a pain for you. No matter how you try to justify it , an Auto is not 95% of a manual. Its just not. If you feel like you are in control of your auto, that's you trying to convince yourself that its amazing and your so happy. You don't owe anyone any reason for getting what you want. But don't say my auto is the same as a manual.

My brothers 911 PDK is NOTHING like my 911 manual. he agrees. He's just lazy. He likes to do his makeup while driving

[BGM-M3COMP]

It's not 95% of a manual, maybe 90%. It just doesn't have a clutch.

I have both a manual and an auto car. My auto car can do everything my manual car can. Except i have to use a clutch in the manual car.

Auto cars have came a LONG way.

Manual cars used to have the advantage, now they're a disadvantage. People get them because they want to involve themselves more in the drive. Meaning using your left foot, and using your right hand.

An auto allows THE CAR TO DO THE SAME THING, whereas you as a driver don't have to.

[G80indy]

BS
A manual tranny is also about throttle control as it applies to selected gears.
Also skipping gears at discretion ….
not being forced into sequence

Driving manual is about driving the car, not being ferried around

[BGM-M3COMP]

Driver involvement definitely goes to the manual. No question. Because you do have to do work to drive the car. That's obvious.

The other stuff you said is the actual BS. Which is why almost every car maker of elite performance has gone away with manuals.

And the few manuals that are left, their auto counterpart is a lot faster.

[Theruleslawyer]

Originally Posted by JayML

Attachment 2974649

Auto guys always say that. I can get 95% of what I want in an auto. Thats why you drive it. Because its a pain for you. No matter how you try to justify it , an Auto is not 95% of a manual. Its just not. If you feel like you are in control of your auto, that's you trying to convince yourself that its amazing and your so happy. You don't owe anyone any reason for getting what you want. But don't say my auto is the same as a manual.

My brothers 911 PDK is NOTHING like my 911 manual. he agrees. He's just lazy. He likes to do his makeup while driving

I'm not an 'auto guy'. I drove manuals most of my life. I guess it comes down to how important very specific act of a H pattern shifter and clutch is to you.

Almost all the complaints about auto have been resolved in modern DCT transmissions.
* Autos are slow to downshift. A DCT will drop to the lowest gear for the speed before you can get the clutch pressed in.
* Autos won't hold gears. DCTs generally will let bounce off the rev limiter no problem
* Autos are slow to shift on command. DCTs are way way way faster than a human can use a manual.
* Autos will unpredictable shift for you. DCTs in manual mode don't.

I'm not sure how "thottle control as it applies to selected gears" is any different. Both manual and DCT can hold a gear in the same way.

You lose being able to skip gears, Which I'm not sure is a huge deal. I only ever really did that when I was just being lazy.

It comes down to how import a clutch is to you. It asks more of the driver to work it and that's part of driver engagement for sure. Nobody but you can really determine how important that part is for you. However as a driver, a DCT resolves the great majority of complaints about traditional autos.

[G80indy]

If you think advocates of manual are about "Faster" you're highly mistaken.
Enjoyment and attachment to the engine, gearbox and chassis, yes.
Enjoy your automatics

[eluded]

Originally Posted by FreddieDB

Nope. Never stopped.

Same.

I have no idea how to drive an auto. D N P, launch control is soooo confusing

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by Theruleslawyer

I'm not an 'auto guy'. I drove manuals most of my life. I guess it comes down to how important very specific act of a H pattern shifter and clutch is to you.

Almost all the complaints about auto have been resolved in modern DCT transmissions.
* Autos are slow to downshift. A DCT will drop to the lowest gear for the speed before you can get the clutch pressed in.
* Autos won't hold gears. DCTs generally will let bounce off the rev limiter no problem
* Autos are slow to shift on command. DCTs are way way way faster than a human can use a manual.
* Autos will unpredictable shift for you. DCTs in manual mode don't.

I'm not sure how "thottle control as it applies to selected gears" is any different. Both manual and DCT can hold a gear in the same way.

You lose being able to skip gears, Which I'm not sure is a huge deal. I only ever really did that when I was just being lazy.

It comes down to how import a clutch is to you. It asks more of the driver to work it and that's part of driver engagement for sure. Nobody but you can really determine how important that part is for you. However as a driver, a DCT resolves the great majority of complaints about traditional autos.

Exactly.

[BMWCCA1]

Do any of you auto/DCT proponents live where you can actually drive and enjoy your car? Or is your preference based on your traffic-clogged daily commute? Living in the shadow of the Blue Ridge Mountains, I can't imagine any driving I do being as enjoyable with any automatic as it is with my 128i M-sport 6-speed manual. So glad I don't live in NOVA or DC.

Next you'll be telling us your electronic power-steering somehow offers better feel (in parking?) than my vintage hydraulic steering. Most of the world who has experienced the former will disagree.

[BGM-M3COMP]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

Do any of you auto/DCT proponents live where you can actually drive and enjoy your car? Or is your preference based on your traffic-clogged daily commute? Living in the shadow of the Blue Ridge Mountains, I can't imagine any driving I do being a enjoyable with any automatic as it is with my 128i M-sport 6-speed manual. So glad I don't live in NOVA or DC.

Next you'll be telling us your electronic power-steering somehow offers better feel (in parking?) than my vintage hydraulic steering. Most of the world who has experienced the former will disagree.

There will never be an agreement when you have auto purists and manual purists in one discussion. One will always favor the other.

Instead, understanding the opinions of owners who have BOTH make sense. Some people have both. Some people still prefer one or the other.

I have both currently. I still prefer the auto. Been driving manual since the 90s. I never NOT had a manual car since then. Always had at least 1. One point i had 4 manuals and 0 autos.

I usually drive my toys on the weekend. I took my manual car out yesterday, ghost roads because it was an early sunday morning on labor day weekend. I did not find anymore enjoyment in the actual shifting part when there's no one on the roads than i do in an auto car when there's traffic.

Is auto better for traffic? Obviously.

But if the logic is that manual is more "fun", then i suggest reevaluating that logic because that means you're implying that every single car owner who has an auto performance car is NOT having fun with their car.

We all know manual involves you more. That is a no brainer. You have to do the chicken dance to drive your car. You have to do the electric slide when you want to parallel park your car. No one is saying manual doesn't involve more.

I am saying from a performance standpoint, the manual is a downgrade. And if you want to involve yourself more in performance, you're handicapping the performance of the car for the sake of more involvement.

[Theruleslawyer]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Dual CLUTCH Transmission. It is not an automatic transmission.

I'd agree the DCT are different enough that they shouldn't be considered automatic, but everyone seems to be throwing them in that category.

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I'm not sure why you think manually shifting gears of a transmission that is designed mechanically to operate one of its two clutches to shift to the next gear is equivalent to using a third pedal.

I don't really think its equivilent, but it solves the issues of a traditional automatics and in mechanical design it is far more similar to a manaul than an automatic.

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

When in auto mode, the Dual CLUTCH Transmission is just as dumb about WHEN to shift gears depending on traffic and road conditions as a true torque converter automatic. A Dual CLUTCH Transmission automates the manipulation of a clutch; it doesn't know when to shift based on what the driver is thinking.

Yes and no. Yes in that a well programmed auto can have the same shift pattern. No in that autos generally aren't programmed anywhere near as aggressive as the DCT but also autos aren't anywhere near as fast shifting either. It doesn't have any additional knowledge for forsight.

In any case, I'm not talking about using a DCT in auto mode. That's fine for puttering around. I'm talking about things like taking it on the track. TBH if you're just going to leave it in auto mode all the time you might as well just get a traditional auto as they have less weirdness. If you're in default mode it feels like hot garbage in auto due to the fuel savings program. Getting it in park and correctly shutting down the car requires a tutorial.

[NickyC]

I'm 46 years old and had never owned anything besides a manual (even learned to drive on a manual) until purchasing my G82 in June of 2021, and then my current F80 in August of 2021. I bought the Competition G82 because of the sizeable power downgrade the 6MT G82 came with, and also to deal with Miami traffic. I bought the F80 with DCT because it was on a nearby dealer's lot and the car was a fantastic deal at the time (as well as still having to deal with Miami traffic).

With that history, I have to be honest and tell you I really don't miss driving a manual all that much. I use the paddles exclusively and never let the car auto shift itself, I even make a habit of hitting the paddles to downshift so it feels like a manual. What really opened my eyes to the benefits of the paddles is that you keep both hands on the steering wheel at all times. A couple months back, I was driving a manual C7 Z06 a friend of mine has and it felt completely bizarre only having one hand on the wheel while shifting. Even though I had driven cars like that for nearly 30 years, after one year of using nothing but paddles as soon as I shifted back to a manual the driving experience felt very odd with only having one hand on the wheel. I didn't feel as in control and everything felt more loose, I hope that makes sense.

So do I miss driving a stick? The DCT in the F80 is so fantastic (even more so with the GTS flash I have on it), that I can't say I miss driving a stick at all. I don't think I could ever have an auto car where it does all the work for you, but by manually selecting all the gears up/down with the paddles I still feel like I'm shifting the car. If you just let the car go Auto mode with DCT it is BORING as hell, I'd never own a car that didn't let me manually select the gears up or down in some way.

I wouldn't say I'm a DCT convert from 6MT, but I certainly see the argument for it whereas a couple years ago I thought I'd be 6MT until the day I died. I hope this helps.