Alcon BBK via Bimmerworld or AP Racing Pro 5000R?

[Grippinaround]

I have the pfc z45 in the rears with 08 pads and man do those pads like to dance. Over any little crack or bump and at any speed you can hear them knocking around back there. Perhaps the rear is a bit too stiff but regardless theyre loud.

[omgzirra_exe]

I am a victim of the Lettering falling off. except its just the lil arch thing that fell off.

[K-Bag]

Hey Guys. Read the thread with interest, especially considering I was comitted to the AP 9660.

Has anyone had any experience with this caliper? A close relative to the CAR89.

CAR89 TA6+

https://www.alcon.co.uk/products/mot...ers/car8949zg/

[Estoril Blue]

Originally Posted by K-Bag

Hey Guys. Read the thread with interest, especially considering I was comitted to the AP 9660.

Has anyone had any experience with this caliper? A close relative to the CAR89.

CAR89 TA6+

https://www.alcon.co.uk/products/mot...ers/car8949zg/

The differential piston diameters is interesting - if it effectively addresses pad taper.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Estoril Blue

The differential piston diameters is interesting - if it effectively addresses pad taper.

I've yet to see a quality kit that doesn't have different diameter pistons

[leftfootbr8king]

Originally Posted by Estoril Blue

The differential piston diameters is interesting - if it effectively addresses pad taper.

Yea agreed with Syt. I don't think there are many kits on the market from the main manufacturers that don't have different piston sizes. Despite this it often still doesn't eliminate pad taper.

[K-Bag]

Well these guys are inbound. 378x34mm rotor.

Expecting a 4 week wait theile the rotor hats are manufactured. Should be on the car before racing resumes in Feb. Ill keep everyone informed on how they go.

[spxxx]

So I'm in a kinda shitty situation, I bought a used set of PFC Z54 brakes but upon inspection noticed that the piston coating had peeled off and they'd likely not seal when mounted. I can either ship them back to the seller or spend ~$500 on seals/pistons/etc to rebuild them.

Alternatively, I can pickup a set of AP 9668 or Alcons for nearly the same price

Any suggestions from folks who've run the PFCs, are they really that incredible? Haha

[DRLane]

Sounds like your gut is telling you to send them back. I’d trust it.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by spxxx

So I'm in a kinda shitty situation, I bought a used set of PFC Z54 brakes but upon inspection noticed that the piston coating had peeled off and they'd likely not seal when mounted. I can either ship them back to the seller or spend ~$500 on seals/pistons/etc to rebuild them.

Alternatively, I can pickup a set of AP 9668 or Alcons for nearly the same price

Any suggestions from folks who've run the PFCs, are they really that incredible? Haha

The Alcon kit is just as good, and if not better. Much more modern design, lightweight.
I'd take the PFC kit over the AP due to all the people I've heard having pad taper issues. I had the PFC kit on an E36 and an E92 and now have the Alcon kit on an F82.

Assuming that calipers will be fine once rebuilt and there's no internal damage to the piston walls, that's an option for sure. But if you're saying you can get a NEW Alcon kit for the same price as rebuilding the used PFC kit, I'd say the Alcon kit is a no brainer...

[spxxx]

Originally Posted by tsk94

The Alcon kit is just as good, and if not better. Much more modern design, lightweight.
I'd take the PFC kit over the AP due to all the people I've heard having pad taper issues. I had the PFC kit on an E36 and an E92 and now have the Alcon kit on an F82.

Assuming that calipers will be fine once rebuilt and there's no internal damage to the piston walls, that's an option for sure. But if you're saying you can get a NEW Alcon kit for the same price as rebuilding the used PFC kit, I'd say the Alcon kit is a no brainer...

Okay it'd be about $2k more for Alcon after looking at the pricing, I managed to snag 2 pairs of from PFC calipers so I'm confident the internals are okay. With repairs I'll be in for ~$4k for the full rebuilt PFC kit with 3 sets of pads... Tough decision.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by spxxx

Okay it'd be about $2k more for Alcon after looking at the pricing, I managed to snag 2 pairs of from PFC calipers so I'm confident the internals are okay. With repairs I'll be in for ~$4k for the full rebuilt PFC kit with 3 sets of pads... Tough decision.

Depends on the rotor condition on your PFC kit as well - lots of life left?

[jritt@essex]

Gents,
I haven't been involved in this particular discussion, but another forum member pointed me here. Let me know if you have any specific questions about our AP Racing by Essex Radi-CAL Competition Brake Kits.

I did see some comments here from certain members about uneven pad wear/taper. I wanted to let you know that we see tapered and uneven wear at all levels of the sport, from the complete rookie to NASCAR Cup, and we see it on products from every major brake manufacturer. As noted in previous pages of this thread, there are a enormous range of variables that impact pad wear, and trying to compare one car, driver, and scenario to another on this topic is a fruitless pursuit.

Also of note, I've now been working in the aftermarket brake business for 20 years. I've helped many thousands of people with their brakes, from Honda Civics, to M3s, to McLarens. I was one of the early team members at StopTech and helped put them on the map, and I've been with Essex/AP Racing for the last 14 or so years. I've worked with amateurs, OEMs, and pro racers from around the world. We also have our own engineering staff at Essex, including an engineering director who was also head of Tilton Engineering's for 14 years before joining Essex. Essex also services professional racing in North America, including being the exclusive brake supplier to NASCAR Cup.

Additionally, I'll echo what others have said regarding spares, service, etc. When purchasing a brake kit, you need to be aware of the company you're purchasing from, what experience level they have, how long they've been in business, how easy it is to get spare pads and discs, how much inventory your supplier typically has on hand, where they are physically located, if they have dedicated staff to service their brake products, etc.

Finally, I'm not sure if everyone saw our recent announcement, but we are now offering AP Racing Pro5000R calipers in Electroless Nickel Plated (ENP) finish. Again, let me know if you have any questions. We've been sponsors for years, I have personally helped several people who have commented in this thread, and I'm happy to help.

Thanks!

[jritt@essex]

Originally Posted by spxxx

Okay it'd be about $2k more for Alcon after looking at the pricing, I managed to snag 2 pairs of from PFC calipers so I'm confident the internals are okay. With repairs I'll be in for ~$4k for the full rebuilt PFC kit with 3 sets of pads... Tough decision.

My comments on your pistons from your other thread...


OP,
That does not look like a coating coming off. To me it looks like debris got into the piston bores around the outside of the pistons. Sometimes during a pad change, the pistons get pushed back into the bore with dirt on them (this is why the pistons on a racing caliper always need to be wiped down prior to pushing them back in). If the pistons are pushed in dirty, the dirt on the sides of the piston is ground between the wall of the piston and the wall of the caliper. My hunch is that if you pull out the damaged pistons and shine a light inside the piston bore of the caliper, you're going to see matching scores/scrape marks.

If only the pistons are damaged, you can replace them with new pistons. If the inside of the piston bores inside the caliper body itself are damaged, the caliper is unfortunately junk. With that type of damage, the caliper likely won't hold good pressure. The gouges would allow brake fluid to slip past the piston seals. You'd get a soft brake pedal, and consistent brake fluid loss around the affected pistons.

Wish I had better news.

[spxxx]

Originally Posted by jritt@essex

My comments on your pistons from your other thread...


OP,
That does not look like a coating coming off. To me it looks like debris got into the piston bores around the outside of the pistons. Sometimes during a pad change, the pistons get pushed back into the bore with dirt on them (this is why the pistons on a racing caliper always need to be wiped down prior to pushing them back in). If the pistons are pushed in dirty, the dirt on the sides of the piston is ground between the wall of the piston and the wall of the caliper. My hunch is that if you pull out the damaged pistons and shine a light inside the piston bore of the caliper, you're going to see matching scores/scrape marks.

If only the pistons are damaged, you can replace them with new pistons. If the inside of the piston bores inside the caliper body itself are damaged, the caliper is unfortunately junk. With that type of damage, the caliper likely won't hold good pressure. The gouges would allow brake fluid to slip past the piston seals. You'd get a soft brake pedal, and consistent brake fluid loss around the affected pistons.

Wish I had better news.

Yeah that's one pair of the calipers, my other set isn't that bad, but does have some damage to the ends of the pistons (I got the second set of calipers really really cheap). Both of these kits sat for over a year though, it is really weird... Initially the pistons only looked like they had wrinkles/dirt near the tips kinda like old chrome finish that's falling off... It just looked like slight corrosion/scuff marks on the ends but as soon as I tried to wipe the dirt/residue off with a microfiber, they started flaking and losing their shiny finish. Is this common with the coatings on pistons?

[RickyBobby]

Jeff, that nickel plating looks fantastic. Not sure if I could own them with my ocd though. 😂
I'm super happy with the standard coating on my new 9660's. 2 track days in so far and loving them, an best of all the Knockback has been eliminated over my stoptechs's with the 6lb springs.

[nicksm3]

Originally Posted by spxxx

So I'm in a kinda shitty situation, I bought a used set of PFC Z54 brakes but upon inspection noticed that the piston coating had peeled off and they'd likely not seal when mounted. I can either ship them back to the seller or spend ~$500 on seals/pistons/etc to rebuild them.

Alternatively, I can pickup a set of AP 9668 or Alcons for nearly the same price

Any suggestions from folks who've run the PFCs, are they really that incredible? Haha

Id say stick with PFC. Ive had my kit for nearly 4 years now and its by far the best system i have ever used.
Question for you, im trying to locate rebuild kits myself for the PFC, where did you source them from?
Thank you.

[jritt@essex]

Originally Posted by RickyBobby

Jeff, that nickel plating looks fantastic. Not sure if I could own them with my ocd though. 😂
I'm super happy with the standard coating on my new 9660's. 2 track days in so far and loving them, an best of all the Knockback has been eliminated over my stoptechs's with the 6lb springs.

Haha...The ENP would definitely show more fingerprints than anodized!

Good deal on the AKB features...glad our Radi-CALs are solving that issue for you. Thank you for your support!

[spxxx]

Originally Posted by nicksm3

Id say stick with PFC. Ive had my kit for nearly 4 years now and its by far the best system i have ever used.
Question for you, im trying to locate rebuild kits myself for the PFC, where did you source them from?
Thank you.

Unfortunately I got some incorrect info from BW but after talking to a PFC Racing Dept rep it seems that the ZR54 Kit from the M235iR uses the same 41/44mm pistons and the rebuild kits are easier to find. I've been chatting with Dalton if you want to ping him or just DM me.

[spxxx]

Hi all!

After all my debacles with used brakes I'm considering going with the new Alcon kit from Bimmerworld or 9668, just wanted to check on pad fitment. Do these use the same 25mm pad shape as the AP 9668?

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by spxxx

Hi all!

After all my debacles with used brakes I'm considering going with the new Alcon kit from Bimmerworld or 9668, just wanted to check on pad fitment. Do these use the same 25mm pad shape as the AP 9668?

it should be, my carbotech XP12 is D54.

[spxxx]

Originally Posted by omgzirra_exe

it should be, my carbotech XP12 is D54.

I decided to be safe and go with the AP 9668 after the KB issues with ST40R. Didn't love having to drive around the issue or deal with swapping pads every 3-4 events since they wore so fast. Time for the 25mm meat pads!