Track forum general chit chat.

[//steve\\]

Anyone have a lot of the OE suspension arms around they want to sell? Provided they don't have tons and tons of track time or miles?

Specifically the 4 upper rears, front lowers, and front tension arms.

[roastbeef]

Exploring.

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

Exploring.

Wow I wish I had the motivation to explore like that!

[roastbeef]

Just make sure you have a full day to torture yourself.

[redpriest]

Originally Posted by Exclusivs

Thanks for chiming in.

redpriest Do you run cooling/to your braking setup on e46? Definitely think something funky is going on, to only get 6 days. Running particularly aggressive pad compound on those? Just thinking outloud

No special ducting. Just PFC pads. Don't remember the compound, but endurance pads. The Brembo brake kit just sucks and triggers anti-icing out the whazoo.

[elim11]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

Exploring.

I'm surprised mrs beef hasnt killed you yet.

[hsaguirre]

So after 4 months of waiting for a shed to be delivered and continuous delays/issues from the company we've decided to cancel our order.

This while very inconvenient since we've needed the storage space, may have opened my fiancé up to the idea of putting a true garage in place. Our house is small, from the 50s, and doesn't have space for a garage in front of the house but has a driveway that can lead through to the back yard which is very large considering the house itself is small.

My idea, and what I hope to get input on, is to build a separate standing structure two car garage (with AC since I'm in Miami) in the back that is tall enough for a true lift. Curious what some of your set ups look like and if you were to start from scratch what you would definitely think about or what really wasn't needed.

Thanks in advance for the advice!

[Move Over]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

Just make sure you have a full day to torture yourself.

It's not too bad , once you've done it 3 times it's like a cake walk

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by elim11

I'm surprised mrs beef hasnt killed you yet.

I sent her off to work.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by dparm

What replaced it?

I don't discriminate, I troll everyone around here. Haven't owned an M3 for four years.

We value diversity.

I don't even have sports car anymore and haven't been on track since 2018.

[roastbeef]

I flopped today. Took the dash off to explore and look around. I decided instead of working hard on something that is going to get modded anyways is just worth waiting. There is a ton of insulation against the firewall I was after, and I was going to drill the dash support tube, but it was just too much for a one day project. I'll be back in there when I fully strip the car.

Still lost a few pounds from ditching the lower footwell covers and forgetting a few bolts here and there.

Stuff for my coil overs is came in, still waiting on bimmerworld to fix their network issues to order camber plates and endlinks.

Dash weighs 23.6lbs with the passenger airbag in it.

[okusa]

I upgraded my JRZ RS Pros to the Motorsports 3 ways. So, I'm going to be posting the Pros for sale shortly. PM me if interested or know someone that may be. If not, I'll post in the general for sale section.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by CPWINCH

im curious, why do you track with DSC? I only ask because I find the car undrivebale even on the street with traction control.

If its a fear thing, I understand but I promise its in your head. Its safer to push a car at its limit without TC
The best form of traction control is your right foot and your hands

Hire Michael Jantz at your next Speed District day and only do traction off with him and you will never go back

It's mostly a financial thing at this point. I invest heavily and a car isn't a huge priority if I was to ball it up and had to start over, so I'm clinging to what I have.
Once I can go more consistently, I'll start working and building with everything off. Until then, it feels like I'm rusty every time I go. I'm not afraid of the car, I'm afraid of doing too much too soon.

[sbo76]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

the life of my ap racing rotors has been short. it is partially my fault, and i have a theory- they are thin with a ton of cooling vanes to keep them light and dissipate heat quickly. i track using mdm and that puts a ton more heat into them. while i'm relentless when i do get some seat time and use every minute i can possibly be on track, i leave the traction control on because i have to drive it home and just don't get the seat time i need to be confident enough to turn everything off (checking my ego here, guys). so cycling these things throughout the day with slicks on a full bodied car and a unskilled goon behind the wheel is particularly hard on them.

My e46 does not even have the traction control any longer after hitting a wall at Laguna Secca (brother was driving not me) so i have drove for years without it. A few session ago i took the e9x on the track and forgot to turn off the traction control. What a difference and not in a good way. I typically hit 6-10 events a year so i am a good driver no where near great. I make mistakes that luckily the e46 and a good track set up help fix with minimal input from the driver. Trust yourself on the track you will probably do much better than you are giving yourself credit for. I found the traction control much too intrusive and as you mentioned it is hard on your equipment.

[redpriest]

Originally Posted by okusa

I upgraded my JRZ RS Pros to the Motorsports 3 ways. So, I'm going to be posting the Pros for sale shortly. PM me if interested or know someone that may be. If not, I'll post in the general for sale section.

How is it?

[okusa]

No yet installed. I still need to order springs which I hope to sort out today.

[Bimmer Barney]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

It's mostly a financial thing at this point. I invest heavily and a car isn't a huge priority if I was to ball it up and had to start over, so I'm clinging to what I have.
Once I can go more consistently, I'll start working and building with everything off. Until then, it feels like I'm rusty every time I go. I'm not afraid of the car, I'm afraid of doing too much too soon.

If it makes you feel any better, I spun turn 6 in my first session last time out and didn't hit anything. Midday spun turn 10 and didn't hit anything. Out braked myself in turn 6 towards the end of the day + target fixation and stopped in the gravel and drove out.

First two mistakes were due to over zealous throttle application too early on exit. Last one I think was mental fatigue/poor judgement. In other words, all stupid mistakes.

I don't remember my point with this post...but did it make you feel better? 😂

[Ximian]

Some groups here have a "three spins and you're out" policy. After two spins, you're asked to sit out the rest of the day which isn't going to inspire confidence in anyone.

When I went from DSC to MDM, it with night and day. When I first went from MDM to DSC off, it was stupid because it was cold and raining with concrete barriers feet away at some parts of the track. I got caught up in the "driving without any aides is the best way to learn" opinion and didn't act sensibly. When I go out now, 80% is working on improving something specific while MDM is on, while the 20% of time, DSC is off while I'm having fun putting together a fast lap.

MDM is fine while you're working on technique. It's fine if it makes you feel comfortable. It's also fine for safety reasons. Let's not shame people for using MDM/DSC.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by Ximian

MDM is fine while you're working on technique. It's fine if it makes you feel comfortable. It's also fine for safety reasons. Let's not shame people for using MDM/DSC.

No one has shamed people for protecting an expensive car. I drove with electronics on for a number of years. I occasionally use them if the conditions are poor during a session or I need to learn a new track.

I still refuse to drive Road America without PTM turned on. Seen way too many wrecks at the kink.

The point I made earlier is that I think people should try turning it off if the situation warrants (e.g. safe track and not a lot of traffic), it's not as bad as you might think. Worst case is you maybe spin it and learn something.

[Bimmer Barney]

Yeah nobody is shaming anyone. This thread is about learning. My point was that the car is easier to drive at the limit without traction aides and it took me a while to hold down that DSC button on track.

As a former motorcycle racer I would also argue that you cannot understand the limits of your vehicle until you've explored those limits and surpassed them. In this group we modify our cars to extend those limits and are trying to become better drivers. But again, why extend limits if you don't know where those limits exist? We add BBK's, stickier tires, suspension and aero and still lap slower than Randy did in a stock M3. Or we lap faster but aren't realizing the full potential of these expensive mods because we didn't build the skills foundation.

Driving without aids is intimidating. This is a place to work past those fears! I for sure am not one of the fastest people in this room but I've had multiple people at track days say it's fun to drive behind me because they can't believe how well I can control slides. My goal is to quit inducing slides, but I am proud of my ability to control the car at the limit (with exception, see previous post)

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by Ximian

Some groups here have a "three spins and you're out" policy. After two spins, you're asked to sit out the rest of the day which isn't going to inspire confidence in anyone.

MDM is fine while you're working on technique. It's fine if it makes you feel comfortable. It's also fine for safety reasons. Let's not shame people for using MDM/DSC.

As they should. If you're spinning out 2 or more times a day at an HPDE something isn't right. Transitioning to driving with all the systems off =/ spinning is the norm. Spins happen, but shouldn't at that frequency. If someone is spinning out excessively with everything off, then they are probably not ready to drive their car like that and likely need some coaching to get them there.

With that being said, there is no shame in driving with aids on. I don't think that was ever implied. If in certain conditions, tracks or cars an individual is more comfortable with driving aids on, then absolutely they should leave them on. I've driven plenty of cars on track and left the systems on. Particularly with students cars, I almost never turn anything off. I have no shame in admitting that. It's actually a good demonstration to show how quickly a car can be driven with everything on. A smooth driver can easily drive a car at ~8-9/10ths without the systems being overly intrusive. Driving with everything off is definitely a different driving experience and probably something everyone should work towards. Like you mentioned, it could even be something where only part of the time you drive with it all off. At the end of the day people should do whatever they are comfortable with and allows them to have fun - as long as they are in control and safe lol.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by Bimmer Barney

As a former motorcycle racer I would also argue that you cannot understand the limits of your vehicle until you've explored those limits and surpassed them. In this group we modify our cars to extend those limits and are trying to become better drivers. But again, why extend limits if you don't know where those limits exist? We add BBK's, stickier tires, suspension and aero and still lap slower than Randy did in a stock M3. Or we lap faster but aren't realizing the full potential of these expensive mods because we didn't build the skills foundation.

I have said that very thing in this thread several times, and in other threads. Being comfortable driving at the limit (which is not static) is what people need to focus on. Sharing telemetry with others can really help "prove" how fast a car can go and what the limits are. Otherwise you are just guessing where those extra few seconds came from. Share your AIM data!

My coach does this with me a lot since he has other C7 Corvette clients:

"X is flat through there, you should not be lifting"
"X is braking 30 feet later, you need to wait for the 2 board"
"X is holding 3rd gear, do not short shift to 4th"
"X's min speed at that corner is 5mph higher, you're overslowing"
etc.