OEM 702/703 to BE Bearings

[AutoTalent]

The BE Bearings are a TriMetal bearing + PTFE coating. The closest equivalent to OEM bearings would be to start with 088/089 (Clevite TriMetal) bearings and add the PTFE coating.

The last set of 088/089 bearings we bought cost us $640 for the V8 set. If we added the PTFE coating for about $75, the total cost would come out to $715 for the OEM equivalent to what BE is making.

[Sneaky Pete]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Why don't you foot the bill for anyone thinking about changing rod bearings, but does not and experiences bearing failure?

I'm not saying don't change...just change them for a known product. If you got say 70K miles from OEM clearance bearings then there is every likely hood you will get 70K from another set.

[OM VT3]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

Lets say these BE dudes are in fact not as smart as BMW and their RB clearance guess produces worse reliability...who is footing the bill when the early adopters start seeing rod shaped ventilation holes in the side of their blocks?

So much for only posting technical things without a personal agenda. I honestly don't know the answer to this, but curious what BMW would say if you asked them the same question for the same car out of warranty.

Did you email anybody at BE Bearings to ask this question? Of course you didn't. Pretty obvious you have a personal agenda here if you're not asking these questions to both BMW and BE before you post something like this. You don't seem to care what BMW would do, only what BE would do. Well then, why don't you ask them? Pretty obvious you don't want to.

Originally Posted by Klipper

Stir up trouble?
I'm just asking what guarantee of success is there with these bearings? Simple question when they are charging more than Oem for an unproven product.

Originally Posted by AutoTalent

The BE Bearings are a TriMetal bearing + PTFE coating. The closest equivalent to OEM bearings would be to start with 088/089 (Clevite TriMetal) bearings and add the PTFE coating.

The last set of 088/089 bearings we bought cost us $640 for the V8 set. If we added the PTFE coating for about $75, the total cost would come out to $715 for the OEM equivalent to what BE is making.

LMFAO. Simple facts are the best antidote for "new member" BS with an agenda. But when will they stop? Probably never. Why? Because it's personal. Notice they never ask VAC the same exact questions because it's personal.

[Klipper]

Originally Posted by OM VT3

So much for only posting technical things without a personal agenda. I honestly don't know the answer to this, but curious what BMW would say if you asked them the same question for the same car out of warranty.

Did you email anybody at BE Bearings to ask this question? Of course you didn't. Pretty obvious you have a personal agenda here if you're not asking these questions to both BMW and BE before you post something like this. You don't seem to care what BMW would do, only what BE would do. Well then, why don't you ask them? Pretty obvious you don't want to.





LMFAO. Simple facts are the best antidote for "new member" BS with an agenda. But when will they stop? Probably never. Why? Because it's personal. Notice they never ask VAC the same exact questions because it's personal.

Who's getting personal. You seem to be mighty butt hurt about such a simple question. Do you by any chance have your own agenda? If not, can you answer my question. I've mailed BE with no response

[OM VT3]

Originally Posted by Klipper

Who's getting personal. You seem to be mighty butt hurt about such a simple question. Do you by any chance have your own agenda? If not, can you answer my question. I've mailed BE with no response

HAHA, that's a good one. I think I share the same agenda that a lot of people here have that they don't like the small of BS, and they don't like people masquerading their agendas as "legit" questions. It's the same two or three people doing this same thing for the past three years now. Same talking points and none of it ever changes. Look above, you disprove one thing and they switch to something else. Wait six months and they'll same the same thing in a different thread as if it had never been shot down before. We're all sick and tired of this personal vendetta and that's our only agenda to see that the BS stops.

I've got a pint that says you never sent any email and that you can't produce one with all of its headers, dates, and security checksums in your next response. People with something to prove usually provide proof. I got a pint that says you don't have any and can't produce any.

[Klipper]

Originally Posted by OM VT3

HAHA, that's a good one. I think I share the same agenda that a lot of people here have that they don't like the small of BS, and they don't like people masquerading their agendas as "legit" questions. It's the same two or three people doing this same thing for the past three years now. Same talking points and none of it ever changes. Look above, you disprove one thing and they switch to something else. Wait six months and they'll same the same thing in a different thread as if it had never been shot down before. We're all sick and tired of this personal vendetta and that's our only agenda to see that the BS stops.

I've got a pint that says you never sent any email and that you can't produce one with all of its headers, dates, and security checksums in your next response. People with something to prove usually provide proof. I got a pint that says you don't have any and can't produce any.

Thats weird. How would you have access to the BE emails? Is your cover slipping? Is there something you aren't being truthful about (again) ?

[m3aviator]

I don't see any issue with putting the stock bearings and bolts back in as replacement.

[OM VT3]

Originally Posted by Klipper

Thats weird. How would you have access to the BE emails? Is your cover slipping? Is there something you aren't being truthful about (again) ?

If I were able to see their emails, I wouldn't have asked you to post it now would I? And if you posted the full email header like I asked, then anybody with experience could tell if it was a real email or not. But thanks for your participation, I think we all got the answer we all expected.

[OM VT3]

Originally Posted by m3aviator

I don't see any issue with putting the stock bearings and bolts back in as replacement.

On the 3ed page you say.....

Sure but if the clearance wasen't so tight there would be oil on the bearings during cold start. If it was purely ethanol content we would see bearing failures in all vehicle combustion engines. I'd really love to know what the oiling schematic on the crank is.

Now BE bearings opens up clearance yet you dont see any issue with putting stock bearings back in?

[Sneaky Pete]

Originally Posted by Klipper

Thats weird. How would you have access to the BE emails? Is your cover slipping? Is there something you aren't being truthful about (again) ?

You do have to wonder if some of the advocates for BE bearings are simply shills.
I certainly don't get why anyone not involved in the project would advocate for a product that most likely will be less reliable than OEM....or at least whose reliability will remain suspect until proven otherwise.

[OM VT3]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

You do have to wonder if some of the advocates for BE bearings are simply shills.
I certainly don't get why anyone not involved in the project would advocate for a product that most likely will be less reliable than OEM....or at least whose reliability will remain suspect until proven otherwise.

HAHA, give facts, proof and hard information instead of just making claims!

Please explain in detail how you think BE bearings will be most likely less reliable then OEM....

Stock: 0.0014 clearance (far to tight for the size of the rod journal) so we already have a problem and then 10w60 a big no no for that clearance, together we have a disaster, also a cheap tin aluminum bearing.

BE bearings: The HIGHEST quality bearing available on the market with 0.0026 clearance (correct for the size of the rod journal) and 10w60 perfect for BE bearings clearance.....pretty easy choice for me.

[Sneaky Pete]

Originally Posted by OM VT3

BE bearings: The HIGHEST quality bearing available on the market with 0.0026 clearance (correct for the size of the rod journal) and 10w60 perfect for BE bearings clearance.....pretty easy choice for me.

OMG you really are a shill for BE!
Tut tut though....criticizing VAC, shamelessly promoting BE while all the time pretending to be all impartial...

Originally Posted by OM VT3

Please explain in detail how you think BE bearings will be most likely less reliable then OEM....

Apart from by nearly doubling the RB clearance, you will get increased oil leakage from the bearings causing a reduction in local oil pressure making the oil film less able to resist high combustion stroke loads...apart from that do you mean?

[tdott]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

Apart from by nearly doubling the RB clearance, you will get increased oil leakage from the bearings causing a reduction in local oil pressure making the oil film less able to resist high combustion stroke loads...apart from that do you mean?

Do you keep forgetting the part where Clevite's own recommendation for bearing spec is for more clearance than BMW spec'd? or the diagnoses of worn bearings shown to Clevite and other experts? What about industry accepted bearing spec's across the board? BMW spec'd the engine too tight, not enough blow up to justify a recall. Most cars will last through their warranty period.

End the BS and continue to believe what you will, you will use stock bearings with no chance at any improvement, others will use the bearings with more clearance because they believe the evidence and think there is a good chance of the problem being lessened.

[Klipper]

Originally Posted by OM VT3

Please explain in detail how you think BE bearings will be most likely less reliable then OEM....

.

I haven't seen any evidence anywhere on the board that lists actual S65 tolerances. It's all guesswork derived from your own measurements. Given the choice between bearings designed by a few self proclaimed Internet experts with zero qualification in bearing design and no R&D results or staying with bearings designed by some of the worlds best engineers with multi million dollar R&D, I'd pump for Oem every time.
Nothing wrong with .0014" clearance at all or even slightly less.

[tdott]

Originally Posted by Klipper

Nothing wrong with .0014" clearance at all or even slightly less.

Please show us an engine that revs to 8250 or close to it and uses a w60 weight oil where the manufacture lists .0014" for rb clearance.

Originally Posted by Klipper

I haven't seen any evidence anywhere on the board that lists actual S65 tolerances. It's all guesswork derived from your own measurements.

What about all the evidence from pulled bearings that show signs of wear that can be attributed to clearance issues?

[Sneaky Pete]

Originally Posted by tdott

Do you keep forgetting the part where Clevite's own recommendation for bearing spec is for more clearance than BMW spec'd? or the diagnoses of worn bearings shown to Clevite and other experts? What about industry accepted bearing spec's across the board?

The is the very same Clevite that was in partnership with BMW for how many years? supplying the very bearings with alleged insufficient clearance.
And during all that time they never thought once to mention to the M division that they were using completely the wrong clearance for the M5 and the M3...Seriously?

Originally Posted by tdott

End the BS and continue to believe what you will, you will use stock bearings with no chance at any improvement, others will use the bearings with more clearance because they believe the evidence and think there is a good chance of the problem being lessened.

There are plenty people who have no idea (probably the majority) of the issues involved who are being carried along by the hype and are buying these completely untested bearings...shouldn't they at least hear the counter arguments....and why it is always the same cache of people who try so hard to discourage negative comments about them.

[tdott]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

And during all that time they never thought once to mention to the M division that they were using completely the wrong clearance for the M5 and the M3...Seriously?

I already answered why:
BMW spec'd the engine too tight, not enough blow up to justify a recall. Most cars will last through their warranty period.


Also BMW specs the bearing likely without sharing any info with Clevite most likely doesn't even know what the final clearance will be. If they had asked for a recommendation i'm sure they would have got it.

[serranot]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

The is the very same Clevite that was in partnership with BMW for how many years? supplying the very bearings with alleged insufficient clearance.
And during all that time they never thought once to mention to the M division that they were using completely the wrong clearance for the M5 and the M3...Seriously?



There are plenty people who have no idea (probably the majority) of the issues involved who are being carried along by the hype and are buying these completely untested bearings...shouldn't they at least hear the counter arguments....and why it is always the same cache of people who try so hard to discourage negative comments about them.

Seriously? I'm sure Clevite made the bearings to BMW's specifications--period. They are not responsible for engineering the specs.

And, to your second point, those of us who bought the bearings realize the context. I don't need "saving" from myself. If things turn out to be as you say, I have no one to blame but myself. But it is a solution based on logic and science. Your "solution" is no solution at all, nor is it a "counterargument." It's just throwing rocks at the solution and is entitled to very little if any weight given the "science" behind your arguments. Got it, understand your point, they are untested. Now go away or come up with some other solution than the stupidity advanced so far, like ethanol in gas.

[rcracin]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

The is the very same Clevite that was in partnership with BMW for how many years? supplying the very bearings with alleged insufficient clearance.
And during all that time they never thought once to mention to the M division that they were using completely the wrong clearance for the M5 and the M3...Seriously?



There are plenty people who have no idea (probably the majority) of the issues involved who are being carried along by the hype and are buying these completely untested bearings...shouldn't they at least hear the counter arguments....and why it is always the same cache of people who try so hard to discourage negative comments about them.

What's your counterargument? Please provide it with data and facts. Preferably something other than bmw m division made it this way.

I've see the facts and data supporting my need for larger clearance. Where's your data? I've measured several cranks myself but according to you that isn't good enough. I know race engine builders that laugh at the bearing clearance. What credible source do you and this other guy klip turn to to say that 1.3 thousandths is good? Again, besides bmw because bmw hasnt been consistent. Every clearance ive measured has been different.

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

Apart from by nearly doubling the RB clearance, you will get increased oil leakage from the bearings causing a reduction in local oil pressure making the oil film less able to resist high combustion stroke loads...apart from that do you mean?

You should really stop providing false accusations and information when you don't know what you are talking about. What you just said is false. There is no oil leakage, its called a increase in flow rate. The oil pump and system is more than adequate to compensate for the pressure demands of the bearings.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by rcracin

What's your counterargument? Please provide it with data and facts. Preferably something other than bmw m division made it this way.

I've see the facts and data supporting my need for larger clearance. Where's your data? I've measured several cranks myself but according to you that isn't good enough. I know race engine builders that laugh at the bearing clearance. What credible source do you and this other guy klip turn to to say that 1.3 thousandths is good? Again, besides bmw because bmw hasnt been consistent. Every clearance ive measured has been different.

Hey RC, I saw your other thread when you changed engine (nice!) as well as rod bearings. When you say measured clearance has been different everytime, you mean between BMW engines in general or the S65 specifically? If so, you recon this is due to actual bearing dimension differences, or other source for discrapancy?

Sorry for my ignorance but wanting learn...

Thanks

[rcracin]

I check my existing clearance with stock rod bearings and it was really tight. I reached out to a few different engine builders and they pretty much laughed at how tight it was.

Stock honda clearance is usually around 1.8-2.0 thousandths. Beyond that it becomes a builder's preference.