Official S65 Rod Bearing Condition Example Thread

[Blindside_137]

Does anyone have BE bearings in stock currently?

[Assimilator1]

Re Lang racing, I wonder how much shipping to the UK would be? And import duty??

Originally Posted by Scharbag

Plastigauge is meaningless. Plain and simple.

Any shop that quotes clearance using that is not a great shop.

And on cost: your S65 is a very expensive engine. I cannot fathom why saving a few hundred dollars is something to worry about for a job like this.

Do it once. Do it right.

Cheers,

Try £400-£500 (note pounds) difference, so ~$528-$660, that's more than a few hundred dollars!
I haven't given up yet on finding a cheaper source for the BE bearings, but there are very few choices here in the UK. Additionally, it seems they're out of stock atm?

Re plastigauge, unless you strip the engine down, that's the only way to measure it, right?
And they don't claim it to be pinpoint accurate, I don't recall their exact words, but it's along the line of a good ball park figure, so better than nothing by a big margin, don't you think?

And who says doing it with ACL bearings is not doing it right?? If so, why?
I appreciate that the BE bearings are better, as I see it, BE bearings are gold, maybe even Platinum standard, ACL are silver standard ........ OEM is rusty iron standard?

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

My thoughts on mixing shells is blunt and may offend some, but it's honest. It's a great practice. But(!) if you have to post or inquire on how to do it, how to measure it, seek a second opinion, or for any reason are not certain about any aspect of how to perform it- you should buy BE bearings and know it has been done right.

ACL bearings are excellent! Mixed sets are great when done correctly.

Re mixing shells, I know you've mentioned that before, but surely even without measuring, if you're aiming for a nominal clearance inbetween the H & HXs, and the minimum clearance is still slightly more than the OEM maximum (although if the figures I got earlier are right, they're not!), then how can that be a problem??
JFYI I'm not keen on the HXs upper end clearance, seems a bit much. Nor on the H's minimum, (again) assuming they're the right figures.

Helmsman
Yea I know you said it's ACL's own specs, what I'm asking is where did you get those? Because I don't see it on their website or their pdf catalogue.
Did you get it via email?

[pbonsalb]

I am leaning toward ACL next. Installed late stock WPC treated in 2014 at 60k miles, a little over 40k miles ago (102k on 08E90).

[Assimilator1]

Will be interesting to see what they look like when you pull them, do you plan to do that at 120k? If so, will that be in ~2.5 yrs time?? (assuming a steady 8k/yr).

[pbonsalb]

Sometime between now and then. Tempted to do them and the main bearings. Much bigger job but doable.

[Evo13]

Originally Posted by Blindside_137

Does anyone have BE bearings in stock currently?

Just picked up a set from mpowermotorsports. Ordered Thursday, received them on Saturday (01/30/20 - 02/01/20).

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

Helmsman
Yea I know you said it's ACL's own specs, what I'm asking is where did you get those? Because I don't see it on their website or their pdf catalogue.
Did you get it via email?

Yes, I got the specs from ACL. Remind me and U'll pm them ones back to the office.

Ps. Felt the same reg cost, and availability for BE. The shops I asked said they'd get BE but it wasnt't possible to say when and I need to plan my life...not too bothered about the slight clearance difference but wouldn't mind the coating. Next time.

[tom @ eas]

2011 M3 6MT @ 105,852mi

[oxfordm5]

2011 DCT 122k

[jvictormp]

Guys, ECS's got BE Bearings with ETA February 7th.

Originally Posted by Blindside_137

Does anyone have BE bearings in stock currently?

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

Re Lang racing, I wonder how much shipping to the UK would be? And import duty??



Try £400-£500 (note pounds) difference, so ~$528-$660, that's more than a few hundred dollars!
I haven't given up yet on finding a cheaper source for the BE bearings, but there are very few choices here in the UK. Additionally, it seems they're out of stock atm?

Re plastigauge, unless you strip the engine down, that's the only way to measure it, right?
And they don't claim it to be pinpoint accurate, I don't recall their exact words, but it's along the line of a good ball park figure, so better than nothing by a big margin, don't you think?

And who says doing it with ACL bearings is not doing it right?? If so, why?
I appreciate that the BE bearings are better, as I see it, BE bearings are gold, maybe even Platinum standard, ACL are silver standard ........ OEM is rusty iron standard?



Re mixing shells, I know you've mentioned that before, but surely even without measuring, if you're aiming for a nominal clearance inbetween the H & HXs, and the minimum clearance is still slightly more than the OEM maximum (although if the figures I got earlier are right, they're not!), then how can that be a problem??
JFYI I'm not keen on the HXs upper end clearance, seems a bit much. Nor on the H's minimum, (again) assuming they're the right figures.

Helmsman
Yea I know you said it's ACL's own specs, what I'm asking is where did you get those? Because I don't see it on their website or their pdf catalogue.
Did you get it via email?

Ouch - why so much more for BE...

And ACL is great. But you still have to deal with tolerance stack unless the H and HX are binned properly to make a good matched set. If that is done properly, then ACL is a perfect choice. As discussed, check with Lang Racing to see if they sell properly binned sets of ACL bearings.

Cheers,

[Assimilator1]

I'm not sure really, but I'm sure the pound tanking since bloody brexit is part of it , BE bearings come from the US, right?

Re Lang racing, roger that, although even if they do then I'd have import duty to pay (& assuming they ship abroad).

Helmsman
Yea thanks, if you could . I emailed ACL but no reply so far .
I can't remember which bearings you went for in the end, was it ACL?

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by Assimilator1

I'm not sure really, but I'm sure the pound tanking since bloody brexit is part of it , BE bearings come from the US, right?

Re Lang racing, roger that, although even if they do then I'd have import duty to pay (& assuming they ship abroad).

Helmsman
Yea thanks, if you could . I emailed ACL but no reply so far .
I can't remember which bearings you went for in the end, was it ACL?

Yep, ACL HX. Might have went for mixed set today, but again not worried and suit my driving style (Sweden climate, short daily commute).

Cheers

[jvictormp]

What is it you guys call "to commute"?

[pbonsalb]

Driving to work and back home.

[deansbimmer]

I'm getting lots of messages about mixed sets.

ACL bearings are excellent bearings. I would not hesitate to use them if BE are unavailable.

ACL does "bin" their bearing sets. The contents of each box of 16 shells will yield the advertised clearance. This is where it gets sticky when you try to blindly mix boxes in hopes of creating a better "BE type" clearance.

I've had ACL's HX shells measure as fat as some of their H shells and vice-versa. Based on the many sets I've measured, it is very possible to mix an H and HX set and, and 'draw the short straw'- ending up with standard (or even tighter than std) oil clearance on some journals. It's why I'm only a proponent of mixing those sets when done with proper knowledge and measurement equipment. We install and sell properly mixed ACL sets, as does Lang and a few others.

A box of ACL shells for S65 come with two sealed packs of 8 shells. Anecdotally, I've also received their sets with 8 shells a good bit thicker than the other pack of 8, indicating they certainly match their shells for each set. It's also a good reminder that all bearing shells should be measured with at least a micrometer before installation, as those thicker 8 shells would ideally be upper shells. Many shops plug and play as they don't know any better- you don't know what you don't know.

Every bearing manufacturer must "bin" their bearings, mixing and matching "thin" shells with "fat" shells to yield the proper bore diameter. Otherwise, manufacturers would be throwing away a majority of their shells which fall outside a super narrow margin. BE does this to the most fool-proof extent, marking uppers and lowers into an ideal clearance set, easy to install for anyone doing the job.

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

I'm getting lots of messages about mixed sets.

ACL bearings are excellent bearings. I would not hesitate to use them if BE are unavailable.

ACL does "bin" their bearing sets. The contents of each box of 16 shells will yield the advertised clearance. This is where it gets sticky when you try to blindly mix boxes in hopes of creating a better "BE type" clearance.

I've had ACL's HX shells measure as fat as some of their H shells and vice-versa. Based on the many sets I've measured, it is very possible to mix an H and HX set and, and 'draw the short straw'- ending up with standard (or even tighter than std) oil clearance on some journals. It's why I'm only a proponent of mixing those sets when done with proper knowledge and measurement equipment. We install and sell properly mixed ACL sets, as does Lang and a few others.

A box of ACL shells for S65 come with two sealed packs of 8 shells. Anecdotally, I've also received their sets with 8 shells a good bit thicker than the other pack of 8, indicating they certainly match their shells for each set. It's also a good reminder that all bearing shells should be measured with at least a micrometer before installation, as those thicker 8 shells would ideally be upper shells. Many shops plug and play as they don't know any better- you don't know what you don't know.

Every bearing manufacturer must "bin" their bearings, mixing and matching "thin" shells with "fat" shells to yield the proper bore diameter. Otherwise, manufacturers would be throwing away a majority of their shells which fall outside a super narrow margin. BE does this to the most fool-proof extent, marking uppers and lowers into an ideal clearance set, easy to install for anyone doing the job.

Thanks Deansbimmer, how interesting. I had no idea that ACL matched binned devices within the same box, but was under the assumption that they produced with 0.008mm tolerance and packed the shells as they come.
If they do match deliberately, I guess it would say so on the box, or is it a given for a shop to take one shell from each bag per rod?

Cheers,
Nik

[jvictormp]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Driving to work and back home.

Is that good or bad?

[Helmsman]

Originally Posted by jvictormp

Is that good or bad?

For me? Good every single day...

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Thanks Deansbimmer, how interesting. I had no idea that ACL matched binned devices within the same box, but was under the assumption that they produced with 0.008mm tolerance and packed the shells as they come.
If they do match deliberately, I guess it would say so on the box, or is it a given for a shop to take one shell from each bag per rod?

Cheers,
Nik

Machines cannot consistently and 100% without fail produce bearings that are all exactly .000X of each other. There must be a process of selection prior to packaging.

All bearing manufacturers measure shells as they're packed, in one way or another. It is a mandatory step in the production process when dimensions down to the ten-thousandths must be known. Some brands capitalize on their process and advertise them to portray a sense of superiority. For example, KING trademarked theirs as "Bulls Eye Tolerance".

ACL offers "Graded Sets" for some engines, but I've not seen much literature from ACL regarding their process for our engines. Based off of measurements I've encountered it's obvious however that they must be measuring and matching shells for each set.

Here is another fun article from KING's Dr. Dmitri Kopeliovich about bearing wall consistency. King has published some of the best literature about bearing design and production. http://www.kingbearings.com/wp-conte...tency-aera.pdf

[jvictormp]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

For me? Good every single day...

Nice!!

Here it's only commuting on weekends lol.

But I'm so satisfied this way.

[jvictormp]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

Machines cannot consistently and 100% without fail produce bearings that are all exactly .000X of each other. There must be a process of selection prior to packaging.

All bearing manufacturers measure shells as they're packed, in one way or another. It is a mandatory step in the production process when dimensions down to the ten-thousandths must be known. Some brands capitalize on their process and advertise them to portray a sense of superiority. For example, KING trademarked theirs as "Bulls Eye Tolerance".

ACL offers "Graded Sets" for some engines, but I've not seen much literature from ACL regarding their process for our engines. Based off of measurements I've encountered it's obvious however that they must be measuring and matching shells for each set.

Here is another fun article from KING's Dr. Dmitri Kopeliovich about bearing wall consistency. King has published some of the best literature about bearing design and production. http://www.kingbearings.com/wp-conte...tency-aera.pdf

How rich these infos are! Thanks a lot!