Official Harrop TVS1740 Supercharger Thread

[rotomoto712]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

Thanks for the update. Glad you're now seeing >6.0psi at ~1000ft of elevation. Peak boost of 6.2psi at ~1000ft of elevation is about right IMO. See my earlier post about how much boost loss is typical with elevation. Also, I recommend reading through this thread (when time permits) as a learning, since quite a few others have chronicled their experiences debugging low boost, bypass valve ECU issues, bypass valve actuator calibration etc. etc. I'm also glad to know Harrop provided the replacement parts you needed. It might be time for some stickier rear tires...

Sticky tires are definitely next up on the to do list. I'm thinking of picking up a set of wheels with Michelin Pilot Sport Cups to use during the summer months.

[RUG8RB8]

Originally Posted by rotomoto712

Out of curiousity how quickly do you hit 6.5 Psi, i.e. at what RPM?

Hello, I finally got around to uploading a short video clip of a 70mph cruise at basically zero boost to WOT stomp. You can see just how fast 6.*** psi hits.

0-6 psi Time

[CamasM3e93]

Originally Posted by RUG8RB8

Hello, I finally got around to uploading a short video clip of a 70mph cruise at basically zero boost to WOT stomp. You can see just how fast 6.*** psi hits.

0-6 psi Time

That looks solid to me and I think you’ve got it as good as you are going to get it. I’m always focused on keeping the car from fishtailing into another lane on similar maneuvers, so curious what mine looks like, lol.

[drwankel]

I really need to get a boost gauge setup in this car...

Anybody got some pictures of their P3 setup? Would love to see how you handled the analog boost sensor, and getting the wiring back into the cabin.

[CamasM3e93]

Originally Posted by drwankel

I really need to get a boost gauge setup in this car...

Anybody got some pictures of their P3 setup? Would love to see how you handled the analog boost sensor, and getting the wiring back into the cabin.

Mine looks like his in the video. Driver door AC vent. 3/8” ID vacuum hose ran from the 1/4” npt port on the passenger side of the Harrop unit connected via a hose barb connector. I ran the hose along the firewall and into the cabin via a small cut on the brake reservoir/booster rubber boot.

[BP709]

Originally Posted by drwankel

I really need to get a boost gauge setup in this car...

Anybody got some pictures of their P3 setup? Would love to see how you handled the analog boost sensor, and getting the wiring back into the cabin.

If I have some time this weekend I’ll take a few things apart to get pictures of how I routed it.

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by drwankel

I really need to get a boost gauge setup in this car...

Anybody got some pictures of their P3 setup? Would love to see how you handled the analog boost sensor, and getting the wiring back into the cabin.

See CamasM3e93 above. It’s literally that simple. Remove the cowl for easier routing near the firewall and use a coat hanger to fish through the access port down by the pedal.

[drwankel]

Exactly the info I needed!

Pictures are still welcome. It will help someone else later.

[RUG8RB8]

I did similar to above, I am on a plane flying to Florida for two weeks or I would send you pics tomorrow. If you still need pics when I get back let me know. I made a tee and have an old fashioned dial gauge as well to verify the P3 is accurate. It is Spot on BTW. I bought a 0-10psi analog so I got better resolution.

[RUG8RB8]

BTW, the female port on the Harrop is NOT 1/8”NPT!!! It is BSP which is slightly different. Australia thing I guess, down under.

[RUG8RB8]

Originally Posted by CamasM3e93

That looks solid to me and I think you’ve got it as good as you are going to get it. I’m always focused on keeping the car from fishtailing into another lane on similar maneuvers, so curious what mine looks like, lol.

I have slightly larger rears 295’s on BBS FI’s, I can’t make them break lose unless everything set to manual and a dead stop WOT. From a roll they are always hooked up. This car just pulls and pulls, but I have a E93 pig, tons of weight.

[CamasM3e93]

Originally Posted by RUG8RB8

BTW, the female port on the Harrop is NOT 1/8”NPT!!! It is BSP which is slightly different. Australia thing I guess, down under.

You might be right, I’ve got an email from BPM support below calling it 1/8” npt. BPMSport can you confirm the size of the pressure sensor port?

[BP709]

Originally Posted by CamasM3e93

You might be right, I’ve got an email from BPM support below calling it 1/8” npt. BPMSport can you confirm the size of the pressure sensor port?

I got the same info from BPM and am running a vibrant 1/8 npt to 90 degree quick connect fitting (vibrant p/n 2665) to a polyurethane hard vacuum line (.156 OD) I compared it to the plug that came out of the Harrop and it was identical diameter/pitch.

[RUG8RB8]

You can cram the incorrect fitting in there but simply call Harrop and ask them, or you can just believe me, because I have called and verified with Harrop. There is a slight difference, but 1/8 NPT will most likely seal even though it is not proper. Never use a plastic PushLok fitting, the heat from engine bay breaks down the plastic and it will leak. If you want a PushLok type, you can order a metal unit from Legris with the proper thread and high temp Viton O-ring.

[drwankel]

This is oddly enough a common problem with Mazda rotary engines. The oil pressure sensor sender is BPT, and many people make the mistake of using a NPT fitting. Why in the world a Japanese manufacturer decided to use BPT I will never know.

I'm somewhat surprised that folks aren't having issues. Using NPT in that oil pressure sender fitting on Mazda Rotary engines typically results in a very slow oil leak and damages the threads on the engine side.

[BP709]

Originally Posted by RUG8RB8

You can cram the incorrect fitting in there but simply call Harrop and ask them, or you can just believe me, because I have called and verified with Harrop. There is a slight difference, but 1/8 NPT will most likely seal even though it is not proper. Never use a plastic PushLok fitting, the heat from engine bay breaks down the plastic and it will leak. If you want a PushLok type, you can order a metal unit from Legris with the proper thread and high temp Viton O-ring.

Just went off the info from BPM. Nothing was crammed in by any means. It threaded in smooth by hand and has no leaks after nearly two years but I’ll definitely be looking into a metal unit from Legris as you suggested. Appreciate the info.

[M.Hagen]

Originally Posted by drwankel

I really need to get a boost gauge setup in this car...

Anybody got some pictures of their P3 setup? Would love to see how you handled the analog boost sensor, and getting the wiring back into the cabin.

I was running a P3 with analog boost and ethanol content sensor with my Harrop setup. The vacuum line and ethanol content sensor wires were routed through the firewall above the dead-pedal (there is a rubber grommet with a + on it, poke through the center of the +).

The vacuum line I ran along the back of the firewall and affixed with a few small zip-ties on the strut tower braces. I had a standard male vacuum hose nipple/fitting installed on the boost port.

FYI - that P3 setup is for sale currently:
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2027097

Cheers,
M

[drwankel]

I'd like to discuss one area with the kit that isn't brought up so much but after 3 years of ownership, is a weak point in the kit:

Heatsoak

The harrop kit is always at it's absolute peak right when the car first warms up. Drive it for a while, it will heatsoak. Drive it hard, it will heatsoak rather significantly. The hotter it gets, the less power you make.

I'm planning to get the full Do88 kit installed, and I'm curious for others who have done the same, if there was any improvement on heatsoaking the harrop kit.

Secondarily, I am thinking about what I can do to improve the harrop intercooler system itself. The reservoir in particular seems like it could be massively improved upon. A larger capacity with better positioned return lines could yield some benefits.

What have others done to mitigate heatsoak?

[CamasM3e93]

Originally Posted by drwankel

I'd like to discuss one area with the kit that isn't brought up so much but after 3 years of ownership, is a weak point in the kit:

Heatsoak

The harrop kit is always at it's absolute peak right when the car first warms up. Drive it for a while, it will heatsoak. Drive it hard, it will heatsoak rather significantly. The hotter it gets, the less power you make.

I'm planning to get the full Do88 kit installed, and I'm curious for others who have done the same, if there was any improvement on heatsoaking the harrop kit.

Secondarily, I am thinking about what I can do to improve the harrop intercooler system itself. The reservoir in particular seems like it could be massively improved upon. A larger capacity with better positioned return lines could yield some benefits.

What have others done to mitigate heatsoak?

What are you experiencing that you attribute to heat soak?

When the unit was on my e93 I had stock radiator, stock oil cooler, stock thermostat, usual Harrop intercooler and supporting equipment. I once stopped in the middle of a long drive, 400 hard miles into a fall day. After idling for 30 seconds on a flat road, I pulled a digitally measured 4.0s 0-60. Never saw once heat soak on that setup, all road driving, some of it in ambient temps as high as 103F.

On my e90 now I have the CSF radiator but stock everything else. IATs are reliably 30F above ambient, maybe creeping to 40F above ambient on the very hottest days. The unit pulls just as hard on a long drive as it does just after reaching warm up. On track this summer, I had one end of day session on a hot day with heat soak and significantly reduced power. Since that episode, I park between sessions with the hood up and the intercooler pump running for 15-20 minutes. When I start the car up for the next session, engine/oil temp is down to ~120F and I'm good for the whole session and then some.

Would say that if you are reliably seeing loss of power into a drive, would wonder if there is another cause or something is wrong in your coolant system overall - like maybe a thermostat that isn't opening early enough. Are you monitoring IATs and coolant temps?

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by drwankel

I'd like to discuss one area with the kit that isn't brought up so much but after 3 years of ownership, is a weak point in the kit:

Heatsoak

The harrop kit is always at it's absolute peak right when the car first warms up. Drive it for a while, it will heatsoak. Drive it hard, it will heatsoak rather significantly. The hotter it gets, the less power you make.

I'm planning to get the full Do88 kit installed, and I'm curious for others who have done the same, if there was any improvement on heatsoaking the harrop kit.

Secondarily, I am thinking about what I can do to improve the harrop intercooler system itself. The reservoir in particular seems like it could be massively improved upon. A larger capacity with better positioned return lines could yield some benefits.

What have others done to mitigate heatsoak?

Heat soak with these kits is 100% a problem. No, making the upgraded cooler investments won’t improve it.

There’s a reasonably good article on the Harrop plenum’s IAT sensor location being a contributor to the issue as the sensor itself heatsoaks. Thus it’s difficult to solve.

Good options:
1. A spacer to lift the plenum and make room for heat shielding. And thereby heat shielding the sensor as well.
2. Much larger coolant tank as additional volume improves efficiency.
3. Larger 3rd party heat exchanger (probably works great with expanded tank)
4. Forced Induction Chiller or Interchiller systems to use AC compressor to supercool the intercoolers. Likely the best option for street applications.
5. Ice system (meh)…
6. Meth water but would need to be post the compression from the twin screw. Which makes it almost impossible. I’ve tried the meth water before as part of the intake at saw no improvement.

Other improvements, reduce heat under the hood. Vents, coating / shielding the headers, etc.

[erics02wrx]

There’s definitely a difference in power between driving the car after initial warm up and driving in traffic, around town, hot days, etc. The worst is driving the car 1-2 hrs after parking it hot, it never seems to get back to the same output regardless of ambient temps or duration.

I see a ~30 deg ambient/IAT delta during first drive and ~40 deg delta after. This seems normal but the perceived power difference between first drive and later drives is very noticeable and I can’t imagine that most of that is due to IAT differences.

[erics02wrx]

Has anyone ever monitored intercooler water temps before and after SC? It would be interesting to see how efficient the cooling system is in different ambient and driving conditions.