Track forum general chit chat.

[kyippee]

Originally Posted by //steve\\

I think like any car the driver mod is the most important one.

Entry point to a good 997 GT3 actually worth buying is $80k on the low side and that's rare. I feel like you're going to spend $90-100k for the condition I want, or you're going to buy one at $80-85k and need to spend $10k to take care of some maintenance and get it sorted.

Even if you started with a more expensive, very clean LCI E92 at $35k, put another $25k into it and it's going to be a hell of a car for $60k total.

Agreed. However, think about this way... my car a similar amount spent on it in terms of what mods are currently on the car and what's been done. But if I were to sell the car, the car is unlikely to fetch a good price compared to a clean, stock example.

A stock 997 GT3 has good cooling and other go-fast bits stock. One could just get camber plates and good tires, and just track it. Then sell it stock with less depreciation. (I assume)

So what's the wiser long-term decision? Lower entry cost vs. lower long-term depreciation?

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by kyippee

Agreed. However, think about this way... my car a similar amount spent on it in terms of what mods are currently on the car and what's been done. But if I were to sell the car, the car is unlikely to fetch a good price compared to a clean, stock example.

A stock 997 GT3 has good cooling and other go-fast bits stock. One could just get camber plates and good tires, and just track it. Then sell it stock with less depreciation. (I assume)

So what's the wiser long-term decision? Lower entry cost vs. lower long-term depreciation?

I think it's difficult to say because the two are just so different in price right now.

Given what the market for GT Porsches is doing you could probably track a 997 GT3, put some mileage on it and sell it for exactly what you paid down the road. Who knows it might even appreciate lol. Right now and for the next few years I see the E9X's continuing to depreciate until they reach a point like the E46's did a couple of years ago and start to go up in value again.

[kyippee]

Agreed! It's hard to figure out. It's a gamble. Luckily it's not actionable for me anyways. I'm already too deep in this car!

[//steve\\]

Originally Posted by tsk94

I think it's difficult to say because the two are just so different in price right now.

Given what the market for GT Porsches is doing you could probably track a 997 GT3, put some mileage on it and sell it for exactly what you paid down the road. Who knows it might even appreciate lol. Right now and for the next few years I see the E9X's continuing to depreciate until they reach a point like the E46's did a couple of years ago and start to go up in value again.

I feel like really good E9x examples are already starting to slowly trend upwards. Of course a lot of this is based on what I see cars listed for vs what they actually sell for but I think it won't take too many more years for the guys with the desirable spec cars that still have low-ish milage to start seeing real good numbers.

This won't be me either. I think I have a good spec but the car is far from stock now and at a minimum due to the front bumper being cut for the GTS lip/splitter it would be impossible to return it to 100% stock/original parts.

The used market is weird these days though. If you were a well known YouTube guy or had a huge following on Instagram you could easily get far far more than some unknown guy/girl with the exact same and/or cleaner car just because no one knows who they are.

This is a reason I actually like keeping and seeing other people who make a build journal of some sort. It gets you a glimpse of how that person likely cared for the car, how they drove it, and what kind of overall condition it's in. I bought my current one without ever even driving it....didn't need to. I could tell it was what I wanted and the previous owner took the same kind of care/precautions I would have. May sound strange to blindly trust someone but it seemed overly evident I wouldn't have to worry about what I was getting. Previous owner was local though so at least I saw the car a few times before buying.

[rhyary]

I am looking for Macht Schnell - DCT Gauge Boss - BMW E9X M3.

EAS said its been discontinued

[ThunderMoose]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

This depends on state of mod. They aren't that fast.

Agree to disagree?

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by ThunderMoose

Agree to disagree?

Of course haha. Cheers.

[TMANN]

All these different perspectives and debate about what's faster, GT3 or built M3, reminds me about my own wonderment. Because I go through LOTS of daydreaming about what I could do - upgrade existing track car; strip and convert daily driver; buy something new to me - soo many possibilities...GT3, GT4, M2CS R, super-built-track M3, etc., but recognize that I continue to like the "built" as opposed to "bought" approach.

Once in a while I catch myself and think about why I go to the track. It really is just to have fun, chasing others and continue learning and improving my skills. I just got an Apex Pro, so I'm starting to post lap times. However since I'm not racing, I'm not sure that more speed = more fun for me. For now, ecstatic that we all have been able to get back on a track in this tragic year!

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by TMANN

All these different perspectives and debate about what's faster, GT3 or built M3, reminds me about my own wonderment. Because I go through LOTS of daydreaming about what I could do - upgrade existing track car; strip and convert daily driver; buy something new to me - soo many possibilities...GT3, GT4, M2CS R, super-built-track M3, etc., but recognize that I continue to like the "built" as opposed to "bought" approach.

Once in a while I catch myself and think about why I go to the track. It really is just to have fun, chasing others and continue learning and improving my skills. I just got an Apex Pro, so I'm starting to post lap times. However since I'm not racing, I'm not sure that more speed = more fun for me. For now, ecstatic that we all have been able to get back on a track in this tragic year!

Yea, there are so many ways to skin a cat. Seems like the most fun thing would just be to switch between lots of different cars, learning each one and then moving on to another.

[//steve\\]

Originally Posted by TMANN

All these different perspectives and debate about what's faster, GT3 or built M3, reminds me about my own wonderment. Because I go through LOTS of daydreaming about what I could do - upgrade existing track car; strip and convert daily driver; buy something new to me - soo many possibilities...GT3, GT4, M2CS R, super-built-track M3, etc., but recognize that I continue to like the "built" as opposed to "bought" approach.

Once in a while I catch myself and think about why I go to the track. It really is just to have fun, chasing others and continue learning and improving my skills. I just got an Apex Pro, so I'm starting to post lap times. However since I'm not racing, I'm not sure that more speed = more fun for me. For now, ecstatic that we all have been able to get back on a track in this tragic year!

This is often very much how I feel and most of us have a bad tendency to think the grass is greener on the other side. I know for me I find bone stock cars boring regardless of how good they are. And I don't necessarily mean boring to drive but just the drive isn't what cars are all about to me. I think I like to tinker and work on them almost as much as driving.

Go to a big Porsche meet and you'll see loads of GT3s that all look just like the next one because owners won't change a thing. Still one of my absolute favorite cars straight from the factory but it's about more than that for me. this doesn't represent all owners but more or them than less. For all I know maybe it would be nice to have a car that's basically perfect and doesn't need a thing. Maybe one day I'll find out.

[TMANN]

Originally Posted by //steve\\

...Go to a big Porsche meet and you'll see loads of GT3s that all look just like the next one because owners won't change a thing...

Yep, its typical for PCA days here in the PNW to see 10-15 GT3/RS and GT4's. So I get lots of time to watch them in the paddock and on track. There's a great variety of color which keeps it interesting. Its a different vibe than the "built" crowd because no one is staring into their engine bays (not much to see anyway I guess). I do get a few lookers at my old E36 M3 and nice comments, they're just nostalgic perhaps as some say "I use to have one of those, loved it, miss that car" or something like that. It does give me pause when I'm daydreaming about something else. They're good guys and gals, all friendly, no attitudes.

Bartledoo - so on the money man! Would love to have a stable of cars to learn and try different things.

[Ximian]

DCT pan install is kicking my ass over the dumbest things. First the felt cover and the rear screws (took a while to find my deep socket 6-point 10 mm) and now removing the snap ring on the filter. I have the tool but it opens just barely enough to be annoyingly useless. Looks like this is going to be a three day project.

I had about 1.3 L come out of the fill plug. The fluid was pretty dark but not much debris on the magnet.

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by TMANN

Yep, its typical for PCA days here in the PNW to see 10-15 GT3/RS and GT4's. So I get lots of time to watch them in the paddock and on track. There's a great variety of color which keeps it interesting. Its a different vibe than the "built" crowd because no one is staring into their engine bays (not much to see anyway I guess). I do get a few lookers at my old E36 M3 and nice comments, they're just nostalgic perhaps as some say "I use to have one of those, loved it, miss that car" or something like that. It does give me pause when I'm daydreaming about something else. They're good guys and gals, all friendly, no attitudes.

Bartledoo - so on the money man! Would love to have a stable of cars to learn and try different things.

Yea the Porsche people are cool. I even signed up for a PCA event over a BMW CCA event at Pacific, because I'm so used to being on track with the Porsches haha. Hope to meet you out there sometime too!

[rhyary]

I am not sure I can tell people apart based on what they drive. I found most people at an HPDE event to be very nice.

I can tell people apart based on "speed", those that like to go fast are more interesting to talk to than those that like to show off their car. But this categorization is obviously a biased one since I am more interested in going fast. The people themselves are equally nice but one group is more helpful than the other.

If you expect a "show off" person to be helpful with a jack, or changing tires before your next session starts, it is not a fair expectation and that person can be viewed as "not nice" or "standoffish" but I think it is just not fair expectation.

I do expect everyone in the advance group to give "point by", regardless of what they drive, since part of being in the advance group is awareness that some one is behind you.

My typical contribution to the driver meeting is the sentence "There is only ONE reason for someone to be behind you, he is faster, move to the side and give them point by"

[MaximusB]

Is this appearance normal? Did back to back track days in hot 38C weather. No brake fade or judder or anything. Using PFC Z rated pads.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by MaximusB

Is this appearance normal? Did back to back track days in hot 38C weather. No brake fade or judder or anything. Using PFC Z rated pads.

No, that looks like smearing. It's normal from street driving but on the track you want a very consistent blue color without streaks or splotchiness. Were you getting into the ABS a lot? How did the brake pedal feel, was there any pad fade?

I thought the "Z" is their performance street pad, not their track pad?

[dparm]

Couple photos and vids from COTA with NASA last weekend. Took first in TT3 on Saturday (ran unopposed) but took second to a heavily-prepped C6 Z06 on Sunday. Weather was trash on Sunday because the hurricane's tendrils were brushing the circuit. We'd get 20 minutes of torrential rain, then the sun would come out and dry a lot of it up, only for the rain to come right back.

A lot of us were 2-3s off pace which is baffling given that the track had been repaved after the USGP and has seen plenty of HPDEs and events since. I dunno. The new sway bars were pretty nice, the car felt much more neutral through the carousel and the telemetry even validated that -- plus the front tires didn't get shredded from high-speed understeer like they did at the previous event.

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by Ximian

DCT pan install is kicking my ass over the dumbest things. First the felt cover and the rear screws (took a while to find my deep socket 6-point 10 mm) and now removing the snap ring on the filter. I have the tool but it opens just barely enough to be annoyingly useless. Looks like this is going to be a three day project.

I had about 1.3 L come out of the fill plug. The fluid was pretty dark but not much debris on the magnet.

Finally done installing the pan. The 50 ml tube of Loctite is more than enough but gets hard to squeeze out. The extension to the suction/pick up tube is a little shady because there wasn’t a satisfying click when installing it, more of a snap. Now to waiting a day before filling up the fluid.

The filter snap ring is the biggest PITA. I got the Lisle snap ring pliers which open up wide and have a 90 degree clip. The clip should stick out as little as possible from the pliers for best leverage. To pull out the snap ring, compress it then pull down. After a few tries, it should pop out a bit. Same for reinstalling the new one. If the ring keeps popping off the pliers, try different pliers. The filter cover pulls out with two flat head screw drivers or needle nose pliers. I used the pliers to get the filter out too.

With a lift and the right tools ahead of time, this is a 3-4 hour job. On jackstands with constantly searching the the toolbox to find the right socket, I’m two days in.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by Ximian

Finally done installing the pan. The 50 ml tube of Loctite is more than enough but gets hard to squeeze out. The extension to the suction/pick up tube is a little shady because there wasn't a satisfying click when installing it, more of a snap. Now to waiting a day before filling up the fluid.

Good to hear you got it done

[StripclubDJ]

Originally Posted by dparm

Couple photos and vids from COTA with NASA last weekend. Took first in TT3 on Saturday (ran unopposed) but took second to a heavily-prepped C6 Z06 on Sunday. Weather was trash on Sunday because the hurricane's tendrils were brushing the circuit. We'd get 20 minutes of torrential rain, then the sun would come out and dry a lot of it up, only for the rain to come right back.

A lot of us were 2-3s off pace which is baffling given that the track had been repaved after the USGP and has seen plenty of HPDEs and events since. I dunno. The new sway bars were pretty nice, the car felt much more neutral through the carousel and the telemetry even validated that -- plus the front tires didn't get shredded from high-speed understeer like they did at the previous event.

How's your GS been treating u reliability wise ?

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by dparm

Took first in TT3 on Saturday (ran unopposed)

"won the class." hey, winning is winning.

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by dparm

Couple photos and vids from COTA with NASA last weekend. Took first in TT3 on Saturday (ran unopposed) but took second to a heavily-prepped C6 Z06 on Sunday. Weather was trash on Sunday because the hurricane's tendrils were brushing the circuit. We'd get 20 minutes of torrential rain, then the sun would come out and dry a lot of it up, only for the rain to come right back.

What's the farting sound at lower RPM?