Official S65 Rod Bearing Condition Example Thread

[Alexand3r]

Originally Posted by bmwtmx

And to the most over-hyped least understood "problem" that ever existed. So nice to see how many people throw their money away on this considering less than 1% failure globally. I doubt you would change your eating habits if you had less than 1% chance of catching a disease but hey, why not join in on the stupidity. Add this to the DME hype on post 996 911's and I could open my own shop replacing parts.

And keep in mind, when you replace the rod bearings the tolerances are exactly the same so while you may have changed the material it's the tolerance that causes the failure.

Yeah, tell that to all the people with seized engines, including me! Let me ask you, if you blow a motor, due to a rod bearings issue, would you do them on the second engine, or you'll play the lottery again? I highly doubt it will be the second one..

The problem is existing, and on a scale, much greater than fails of other motors and brands.

The fact is, that 99% of the bearings that come out of the engines, look so bad, that I highly doubt that anyone will say "They look fine, put them back in"

[deansbimmer]

Here's a fun one from last week- 7000 mile 2012 E92 DCT.

[G80indy]

First oil change with RB swap, or what? To post this with no story at all is lame

[drrust]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

Here's a fun one from last week- 7000 mile 2012 E92 DCT.

Wow! Part of me can't imagine only putting 1,000 miles a year on a car. The other is frustration with BMW with this whole issue. Those really illustrate that something is amiss with these motors.

It is my understanding that BMW tears down motors from warranty claims, I would love to see what their root cause was on the motors that they have replaced.

[bmwtmx]

Originally Posted by Alexand3r

Yeah, tell that to all the people with seized engines, including me! Let me ask you, if you blow a motor, due to a rod bearings issue, would you do them on the second engine, or you'll play the lottery again? I highly doubt it will be the second one..

The problem is existing, and on a scale, much greater than fails of other motors and brands.

The fact is, that 99% of the bearings that come out of the engines, look so bad, that I highly doubt that anyone will say "They look fine, put them back in"

The issue with rod bearing failure is almost 100% driver error or lack of knowledge as to what the issue is. The issue is caused due to the fact that oil is not getting to the rod bearings when the car is cold because the oil sits lower than where the bearings are located. So, the way to resolve the problem is not rev the car over 3k RPM's until the car is warmed up. End of story.

However, most people rev their cars well above that as soon as they get in it and that causes the bearings to wear out as they are "oil starved" and the result is catastrophic. Buying new rod bearings does nothing because the tolerances are exactly the same meaning that the oil still has difficulty lubricating the bearings when the car is cold so if you think that you replace them once and you are done you are wrong. BMW upgraded the materials but not the tolerances so you will suffer failure regardless if you replace them if you don't allow the motor to warm up.

The picture above of a 7k mile motor is ludicrous and a total waste of money. The bearings have no wear and the driver will suffer bearing failure if he doesn't allow the car to warm up just as he would if didn't replace the bearings. I am for it on a motor with 60k+ miles but even then it depends on how the car is driven.

There are many videos and write ups on this issue but they over-hype in the forums is dumb. I am sorry you lost your motor but simply allowing the car to warm up is the way to prevent it and I practice that every time I drive my car.

[bmwtmx]

Here is a video that completely shows how to replace and explains everything.

[RedScytheM3]

Originally Posted by bmwtmx

The issue with rod bearing failure is almost 100% driver error or lack of knowledge as to what the issue is. The issue is caused due to the fact that oil is not getting to the rod bearings when the car is cold because the oil sits lower than where the bearings are located. So, the way to resolve the problem is not rev the car over 3k RPM's until the car is warmed up. End of story.

However, most people rev their cars well above that as soon as they get in it and that causes the bearings to wear out as they are "oil starved" and the result is catastrophic. Buying new rod bearings does nothing because the tolerances are exactly the same meaning that the oil still has difficulty lubricating the bearings when the car is cold so if you think that you replace them once and you are done you are wrong. BMW upgraded the materials but not the tolerances so you will suffer failure regardless if you replace them if you don't allow the motor to warm up.

The picture above of a 7k mile motor is ludicrous and a total waste of money. The bearings have no wear and the driver will suffer bearing failure if he doesn't allow the car to warm up just as he would if didn't replace the bearings. I am for it on a motor with 60k+ miles but even then it depends on how the car is driven.

There are many videos and write ups on this issue but they over-hype in the forums is dumb. I am sorry you lost your motor but simply allowing the car to warm up is the way to prevent it and I practice that every time I drive my car.

You should seriously delete your post. You have no idea what you're talking about. To say the above "bearings have no wear" says all I need to know about your knowledge and credibility on the topic.

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by bmwtmx

And to the most over-hyped least understood "problem" that ever existed...... The issue with rod bearing failure is almost 100% driver error or lack of knowledge as to what the issue is....

I make an effort to avoid stirring things up but you really should do as suggested and delete your posts. You've proven that you fall into your category of individuals who don't understand the issue and you're simply perpetuating the same misunderstandings you condemn.

Using that video as your "proof" only further demonstrates that the understanding of engine lubrication and bearing design escapes you. That video was a hot topic, discussed at length in various other threads by actual engine builders and engineers who instantly identified numerous issues and incorrect nomenclature proving the narrator himself did not understand bearings in general much less how they relate to the S65. It was an embarrassment and I'm sure some people over there wish that video would disappear from the internet.

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by bmwtmx

The issue with rod bearing failure is almost 100% driver error or lack of knowledge as to what the issue is. The issue is caused due to the fact that oil is not getting to the rod bearings when the car is cold because the oil sits lower than where the bearings are located. So, the way to resolve the problem is not rev the car over 3k RPM's until the car is warmed up. End of story.

Someone who knows nothing about the issues on these motors and little about motors in general.

[NeverL8]

Don’t feed the troll

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by bmwtmx

The issue with rod bearing failure is almost 100% driver error or lack of knowledge as to what the issue is. The issue is caused due to the fact that oil is not getting to the rod bearings when the car is cold because the oil sits lower than where the bearings are located. So, the way to resolve the problem is not rev the car over 3k RPM's until the car is warmed up. End of story.

However, most people rev their cars well above that as soon as they get in it and that causes the bearings to wear out as they are "oil starved" and the result is catastrophic. Buying new rod bearings does nothing because the tolerances are exactly the same meaning that the oil still has difficulty lubricating the bearings when the car is cold so if you think that you replace them once and you are done you are wrong. BMW upgraded the materials but not the tolerances so you will suffer failure regardless if you replace them if you don't allow the motor to warm up.

The picture above of a 7k mile motor is ludicrous and a total waste of money. The bearings have no wear and the driver will suffer bearing failure if he doesn't allow the car to warm up just as he would if didn't replace the bearings. I am for it on a motor with 60k+ miles but even then it depends on how the car is driven.

There are many videos and write ups on this issue but they over-hype in the forums is dumb. I am sorry you lost your motor but simply allowing the car to warm up is the way to prevent it and I practice that every time I drive my car.

No wear ? The S65 in question has only 7K miles on it . And the wear on these bearings is obvious . It's actually worse with only 7K on it , because this situation is *premature* bearing wear .
This S65 wouldn't make it to 40K miles ...

I have one in my database with only 6K miles on it . The car was idling on the parking lot from a BMW/Dealer . The owner was worried about a loud ticking noise . The car stayed there with bearing failure and the S65 was replaced under BMW/warranty . The owner sold the car ASAP.

A German in my database bought one with a replaced S65 by bearing failure . He drove on the German autobahn and he got bearing failure . He was very lucky that he was able to avoid an accident.
So...He replaced the S65 . And he got bearing failure again ..
This means 3 bearing failures in the same car .....
So. Yeah , it's a waste of money !

[Green-Eggs]

Originally Posted by bmwtmx

The issue with rod bearing failure is almost 100% driver error or lack of knowledge as to what the issue is. The issue is caused due to the fact that oil is not getting to the rod bearings when the car is cold because the oil sits lower than where the bearings are located. So, the way to resolve the problem is not rev the car over 3k RPM's until the car is warmed up. End of story.

So you're saying that the driver starts the engine, then drives like mad before the rod bearings reach full oil pressure and flow? That is what you just said. On factory rod bearings, the engine reaches 75% pressure in 2.0 seconds; and 90% pressure in 2.6 seconds. So you're saying 99% of all drivers are doing this rod bearing damage in less than 2.0 - 2.6 seconds from the time they start the engine? I say 99% because 99% of all of these engines (including the above at 7000 miles) show excessive bearing wear.

Never mind the technical reasons why that's impossible by knowing how a rod bearing works in the first place. The claim itself is silly for anybody who knows the data.

On aftermarket BE Bearings, those numbers are even better: 1.6 seconds to 70% pressure, and 1.9 seconds to 90% pressure. Oil flow more than doubles too.

However, most people rev their cars well above that as soon as they get in it and that causes the bearings to wear out as they are "oil starved" and the result is catastrophic. Buying new rod bearings does nothing because the tolerances are exactly the same meaning that the oil still has difficulty lubricating the bearings when the car is cold so if you think that you replace them once and you are done you are wrong. BMW upgraded the materials but not the tolerances so you will suffer failure regardless if you replace them if you don't allow the motor to warm up.

False, and offered with no evidence. BTW: Most people consider the rod bearing change a downgrade of materials, not an upgrade.

The picture above of a 7k mile motor is ludicrous and a total waste of money. The bearings have no wear and the driver will suffer bearing failure if he doesn't allow the car to warm up just as he would if didn't replace the bearings. I am for it on a motor with 60k+ miles but even then it depends on how the car is driven.

There are many videos and write ups on this issue but they over-hype in the forums is dumb. I am sorry you lost your motor but simply allowing the car to warm up is the way to prevent it and I practice that every time I drive my car.

The video you posted is from a company that has no engine expertise or experience. It has been widely debunked (and brutally mocked for it's errors and omissions). Believe them at your own risk.

[MaximusB]

Originally Posted by bmwtmx

The issue with rod bearing failure is almost 100% driver error or lack of knowledge as to what the issue is. The issue is caused due to the fact that oil is not getting to the rod bearings when the car is cold because the oil sits lower than where the bearings are located. So, the way to resolve the problem is not rev the car over 3k RPM's until the car is warmed up. End of story.

100% false.

But I’ll along, if your “theory” is true then my daily beater would have blown up a long time ago. 200,000+ km (124k miles), I floor it daily upon starting the car up in the morning, as I live at the bottom of a hill. Even in Canadian winter.

[Millie]

Originally Posted by MaximusB

100% false.

But I’ll along, if your “theory” is true then my daily beater would have blown up a long time ago. 200,000+ km (124k miles), I floor it daily upon starting the car up in the morning, as I live at the bottom of a hill. Even in Canadian winter.

Location: Vancouver

Lets not get ahead of ourselves here.

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by bmwtmx

The issue with rod bearing failure is almost 100% driver error or lack of knowledge as to what the issue is. The issue is caused due to the fact that oil is not getting to the rod bearings when the car is cold because the oil sits lower than where the bearings are located. So, the way to resolve the problem is not rev the car over 3k RPM's until the car is warmed up. End of story.

However, most people rev their cars well above that as soon as they get in it and that causes the bearings to wear out as they are "oil starved" and the result is catastrophic. Buying new rod bearings does nothing because the tolerances are exactly the same meaning that the oil still has difficulty lubricating the bearings when the car is cold so if you think that you replace them once and you are done you are wrong. BMW upgraded the materials but not the tolerances so you will suffer failure regardless if you replace them if you don't allow the motor to warm up.

The picture above of a 7k mile motor is ludicrous and a total waste of money. The bearings have no wear and the driver will suffer bearing failure if he doesn't allow the car to warm up just as he would if didn't replace the bearings. I am for it on a motor with 60k+ miles but even then it depends on how the car is driven.

There are many videos and write ups on this issue but they over-hype in the forums is dumb. I am sorry you lost your motor but simply allowing the car to warm up is the way to prevent it and I practice that every time I drive my car.

Wow...

Just wow.

[MaximusB]

Originally Posted by Millie

Location: Vancouver

Lets not get ahead of ourselves here.

It gets cold in my standards. I’m delicate

[bmwtmx]

So I guess I know nothing and every single S65 motor will detonate and they are all just piles of metal all waiting for the garbage bin. So if every motor made has this issue how are any still in existence if they are all built to the same tolerance? It's all just 1 big conspiracy by BMW who built a motor that can't last 5k miles! As I said, go out and spend $2500 every 10k miles cause that's what Joe on the forum told you to do. If there was a problem this big there would be a recall, a class action lawsuit or something. Instead, it's the forum full of mechanical geniuses each waiting for their job to develop the next F1 engine because they can build them better.

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by bmwtmx

So I guess I know nothing...

Correct. But nobody knows all these things when they're just starting out. There are many resources out there from BEbearings, Clevite, King, etc. to help you change that. Check them out and be educated. Become informed and be part of the solution instead of the problem.

Engines are not all built to the same tolerances, research "tolerance stacking" and its effects. Additionally, you're evidently not aware that the vast majority of owners now are replacing with aftermarket bearings like BE or ACL which increase the clearances, not stock with the same clearances prone to failure.

And yes, there is in fact a class action suit currently in litigation.

Try these resources:
http://bebearings.com/Overview.html

http://www.kingbearings.com/technical-info/

http://www.kingbearings.com/wp-conte...-they-work.pdf

https://www.mahle-aftermarket.com/me...s-brochure.pdf

[bmwtmx]

Trust me. I am not just starting out. The issue I have with this problem is that the replacement bearings sold by virtually every vendor including BMW has the same tolerances so you will be replacing the bearings for the entire time you own the car. BE and ACL are the only companies that make bearings with increased clearance. I do not doubt that there is an issue here but I think changing them at 50k to 60k miles is the way to go for preventative maintenance and not at any mileage and then showing that a bearing has wear is proof the motor was going to detonate. As some members have pointed out, they have a substantial amount of miles on their cars with no issue and lets keep in mind this is an M3 with a NA V8 that revs to 8400 rpm so the typical user is someone who revs them to redline quite a bit as that is the point of the car. I just don't subscribe to the hysteria which I saw when I raced E30 M3's, the numerous Porsche's I owned and tracked and other cars as well. I am a firm believer that most of the time it is the driver that causes the issue unless proven otherwise.

[Dpc2u]

SMH.

[G80indy]

I'll rephrase
Change your F#¥€ing oil!
Before 5k miles! <3k miles, even better!

Oh sit back and e n j o y them fireworks now.
You're welcome

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by bmwtmx

As I said, go out and spend $2500 every 10k miles cause that's what Joe on the forum told you to do.

I have never read anyone suggest that and I have been following the rod bearing issue here for 8 years (and changed mine myself in 2014).