Supercharged e90 M3 Failure

[US///M3]

Originally Posted by Jaypod

E90 per the thread title and first line of initial post.

your question really depends on what speed/rpm you were at when you missed the shift

According to AA he was doin 128mph, I guess it was a typo AA describing the OP's car as an e92 M3. If your rpm isn't high then goin from 4th into 3rd isn't gonna result in a money shift.
A stock engine can take 300rpm over redline without throwing a rod through the engine block.

[Dodge2Dub]

Originally Posted by US///M3

According to AA he was doin 128mph, I guess it was a typo AA describing the OP's car as an e92 M3. If your rpm isn't high then goin from 4th into 3rd isn't gonna result in a money shift.
A stock engine can take 300rpm over redline without throwing a rod through the engine block.

...but with boost and stock internals, who knows where the line is crossed from a miss shift to a money shift.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by akh23456

lol revving that high when the redline by active is set a 8100 deff a big no no. What do you expect when you over rev an engine stock or boost. Lol at the Ess advertisement

I think you're talking about what I said in regards to # of ESS SC's sold with no documented failures. I can understand why you, especially with history here and the subject of the thread, would make you feel that way. It was not my intention. It's completely relevant to the current discussion and the discernible paranoia about the S65 going on right now and it shouldn't bother you, but rather make you feel a little bit better that your car is most likely going to be okay.

Here's the relevant question I've yet to see asked. How many kits have all of Supercharger companies sold? How many documented failures do we know about? How many M3's have been sold vs. how many failures? I think it's a fair question and the fact that ESS has sold hundreds of kits without these types of failures, should answer some of those questions and let people feel a little more secure that it's unlikely they may have a failure stock or if their supercharger kit has a good history of units sold vs. failures.

[M3PO]

Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke

The Maximum engine speed recorded indicated 8705+ RPM when the factory rev limiter is set to 8300, and Active Autowerke clearly set the rev limiter to 8100RPM for the supercharged cars.

He was not at 6000 RPM when the engine failed.

The throttle position showed 36% opening and not 100% opening when the engine failed, this would indicate that the engine most likely was in a deceleration mode. Active suspects a driver mis-shift going from 4th to 5th gear and hitting 3rd by mistake. Why? Because the road speed at the time with the 36% throttle opening indicated a 207 KM/hr speed (128 MPH). If the supercharger created excessive load on the engine to break the connecting rod, the shadow memory would most likely indicate that the throttle would be closer to 100% opening where the maximum supercharged power is developed.

When was the maximum engine speed recorded? Just prior to the "event"?

If I'm reading this correctly, you think he missed an upshift from 4th to 5th and downshifted to 3rd instead? He would have had to be near redline in 4th at full throttle, attempting to bang it into 5th, but instead slipped it into 3rd, dumped the clutch, and dropped the hammer. Forget 8700, wouldn't that have broken the damn needle of the gauge? You wrote 8705+, what does that mean exactly? How long was the car at 36% throttle? An instant during the shift?

[US///M3]

Originally Posted by Dodge2Dub

...but with boost and stock internals, who knows where the line is crossed from a miss shift to a money shift.

+1

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by US///M3

Reading between the lines,the moral of the story is to go with ESS.

Thanks! Drew.

Based on how many units sold, and no documented failures I think it's a solid decision, but that's not to say other brands don't offer solid kits. Failures do happen, but that doesn't mean the company is not worthy at all, many of the best tuners in the car world have had failures, no doubt about it, but usually when they are pushing the limits in some way.

I don't know the exact # of how many units others have sold vs. failures, I can tell you it's probably not in the 300's based on forum traffic, but some believe that means nothing. I certainly think other companies are capable of developing great SC'r kits, but I would say that # is very low. Active has been doing this a long time, no reason to doubt their abilities based on this one failure, and I'm not sure who's fault the failure really is, we need more info, and frankly it's no one's business unless they chose to share it with us.

[akh23456]

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

I think you're talking about what I said in regards to # of ESS SC's sold with no documented failures. I can understand why you, especially with history here and the subject of the thread, would make you feel that way. It was not my intention. It's completely relevant to the current discussion and the discernible paranoia about the S65 going on right now and it shouldn't bother you, but rather make you feel a little bit better that your car is most likely going to be okay.

Here's the relevant question I've yet to see asked. How many kits have all of Supercharger companies sold? How many documented failures do we know about? How many M3's have been sold vs. how many failures? I think it's a fair question and the fact that ESS has sold hundreds of kits without these types of failures, should answer some of those questions and let people feel a little more secure that it's unlikely they may have a failure stock or if their supercharger kit has a good history of units sold vs. failures.

Lol i have been sure about my kit since the day i bought it. People can say other wise about someone else motor with the ess kit which people rarely speak of why is that? Oh i know the Non-disclourse agreement.

[BMRLVR]

Originally Posted by M3PO

When was the maximum engine speed recorded? Just prior to the "event"?

If I'm reading this correctly, you think he missed an upshift from 4th to 5th and downshifted to 3rd instead? He would have had to be near redline in 4th at full throttle, attempting to bang it into 5th, but instead slipped it into 3rd, dumped the clutch, and dropped the hammer. Forget 8700, wouldn't that have broken the damn needle of the gauge? You wrote 8705+, what does that mean exactly? How long was the car at 36% throttle? An instant during the shift?

Most people don't let the clutch all the way out before they catch themselves. A money shift, no matter what the RPM is, places extreme loads on on the entire driveline. There is no where for the energy to go so parts break in a hurry.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by akh23456

Lol i have been sure about my kit since the day i bought it. People can say other wise about someone else motor with the ess kit which people rarely speak of why is that? Oh i know the Non-disclourse agreement.

I never questioned your certainty about your choice, knocked your kit or AA here, I merely stated a fact, you took it the wrong way AK. As far as the 2nd part of your statement, I have no clue what you are referring too.

[M3PO]

Originally Posted by BMRLVR

Most people don't let the clutch all the way out before they catch themselves. A money shift, no matter what the RPM is, places extreme loads on on the entire driveline. There is no where for the energy to go so parts break in a hurry.

Yep, I've done that before with my previous 350Z and I understand that it usually happens that way. Fortunately, in my case, everything held on. The reason for my post is that they're explanation is confusing and potentially contradictory. The seem to suggest that the car was decelerating and the owner missed a downshift which is the most common misshift. But then at the same time, they make it seem like he missed an upshift, which is harder to do, especially when it's 5th. I'm just looking for some clarification from AA on what their theory actually is. If it jives, that's the last nail in the OP's coffin, for me at least.

[US///M3]

People i know who had money shifts told me it occured on downshifts. Thry moved the shift lever too far to the left passing the gate for the desired gear.
I guess the OP didnt even move the shifter to the right or maybe he didn't bleed off enough rpm before goin into 3rd when slowing down.

[chris s]

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

I never questioned your certainty about your choice, knocked your kit or AA here, I merely stated a fact, you took it the wrong way AK. As far as the 2nd part of your statement, I have no clue what you are referring too.

I would have to agree Akash...i think you took drew's post the wrong way. Just MHO though. I thought his post was on point, well written and informative and in no way was he trying to throw out an ess endorsement.

[Mbauer]

Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke

Jordan,

Can You please post a copy of the work order from BMW stating your warranty was denied for 198 mph speedometer reading.

I'd like to say Andrew is right... Who's doing 6th gear pulls on the dyno? They always read the shadow memory before the OK even if it's a SMG.

[erm324]

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

I think you're talking about what I said in regards to # of ESS SC's sold with no documented failures. I can understand why you, especially with history here and the subject of the thread, would make you feel that way. It was not my intention. It's completely relevant to the current discussion and the discernible paranoia about the S65 going on right now and it shouldn't bother you, but rather make you feel a little bit better that your car is most likely going to be okay.

Here's the relevant question I've yet to see asked. How many kits have all of Supercharger companies sold? How many documented failures do we know about? How many M3's have been sold vs. how many failures? I think it's a fair question and the fact that ESS has sold hundreds of kits without these types of failures, should answer some of those questions and let people feel a little more secure that it's unlikely they may have a failure stock or if their supercharger kit has a good history of units sold vs. failures.

+1, The numbers don't lie.

[SflBimmer8484]

198 Mph would be a risk we would never take on our dyno.

[m33]

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

I think you're talking about what I said in regards to # of ESS SC's sold with no documented failures. I can understand why you, especially with history here and the subject of the thread, would make you feel that way. It was not my intention. It's completely relevant to the current discussion and the discernible paranoia about the S65 going on right now and it shouldn't bother you, but rather make you feel a little bit better that your car is most likely going to be okay.

Here's the relevant question I've yet to see asked. How many kits have all of Supercharger companies sold? How many documented failures do we know about? How many M3's have been sold vs. how many failures? I think it's a fair question and the fact that ESS has sold hundreds of kits without these types of failures, should answer some of those questions and let people feel a little more secure that it's unlikely they may have a failure stock or if their supercharger kit has a good history of units sold vs. failures.

well put

[m33]

Originally Posted by akh23456

Lol i have been sure about my kit since the day i bought it. People can say other wise about someone else motor with the ess kit which people rarely speak of why is that? Oh i know the Non-disclourse agreement.

I can attest , the AA kit is pretty solid as i saw what it did at the drag strip at multiple events we both went to , especially the last one at Atco
Let's not forget about my hot Laps

what ESS motor are you referring too ?

[MilehighM3]

Originally Posted by Andrew@ActiveAutowerke

198 Mph would be a risk we would never take on our dyno.

A top speed run on a dyno is never a good idea. I have no doubt that any/all tuners would deny a clients request to even try it. Guaranteed to overheat, there is not enough air to cool the car down. Math will tell you what the achievable top speed of a car is without a speed limiter.

That being said, Active has always taken care of what needs to be taken care of in my experience. Without question or compromise. I can't say the same for any other tuner, on any platform. The only one I have zero experience with would be Gintani, and I have no interest in doing so. Active has been around a long time and continues to break new ground. It's a great thing for the tuner community and promotes out of the box thinking of what can and can't be done. Plenty of others have had occasional failures, there's no question about that.
To any one who wants to play, be ready to pay. Period.
Thanks for getting in here Andrew!

[MPoweredAuto]

I don't have much time to elaborate on everything, due to time constraints but will tomorrow. Maybe you should speak with your former sales staff who recommended I return back to stock. Also, in 6th gear to run a top speed it will certainly do 198mph.

The rest of the allegations "Andrew" imposed will be addressed tomorrow. I have a pregnant wife and I must go. I will include more details tomorrow. And as for the thought of me "money shifting" it, that is 100% untrue and will remain that way until I die. Anyone who has ridden in a car with me knows I backhand from 3rd to 4th and have NEVER "money shifted" a car.

More elaboration to everything tomorrow. Thanks

[SflBimmer8484]

Originally Posted by Bmw135er

A top speed run on a dyno is never a good idea. I have no doubt that any/all tuners would deny a clients request to even try it. Guaranteed to overheat, there is not enough air to cool the car down. Math will tell you what the achievable top speed of a car is without a speed limiter.

That being said, Active has always taken care of what needs to be taken care of in my experience. Without question or compromise. I can't say the same for any other tuner, on any platform. The only one I have zero experience with would be Gintani, and I have no interest in doing so. Active has been around a long time and continues to break new ground. It's a great thing for the tuner community and promotes out of the box thinking of what can and can't be done. Plenty of others have had occasional failures, there's no question about that.
To any one who wants to play, be ready to pay. Period.
Thanks for getting in here Andrew!

Everyone at Active appreciates feedback like that! Thank you

Many Companies have come and go in the last decade I tend to think we are doing something right. 31 years in buisness and stronger than ever

[US///M3]

The tuning communty is a dog-eat-dog world.

[Singletrack]

Got it. So the evidence shows that Jordan Russ is dishonest. Check.

This reminds me of that line in True Romance:

"Now, what we got here is a little game of show and tell. You don't wanna show me nothing but you're telling me everything."