First track build (e92 M3)

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by FrostyAZ

I have been considering the R1 and R1S and was leaning towards R1 since I live in AZ and our temps will start to hover around 100 within a month, I was concerned the R1S might not hold up well. Have you used them in high temp and for longer sessions?

I don't run a whole lot in high temps anymore, and when I do in run in high temps, I don't run long sessions---the engine/supercharger can't take it, so I'm not the best guy to ask. I have generically heard others say that in high temps they would tend more in the direction of the R1. But again, I have no direct experience. Personally, I can't find a reason to buy a set of "slower" R1 since I'm so happy with R1S.

In the hot temps, I will make the effort to go to the track for a Time Attack. Last summer, I ran R1S when it was 92ºF at Big Willow Springs. Time Attack sessions are fairly short. GTA's sessions run about 15 minutes. At 92ºF, my engine will go 2 laps at top speed before complaining. The tires did great. I ran a 1:27 and won my class that day. So, from what I've seen, high temps with shorter sessions are fine for R1S.

One other thought: when you get advice about tires from another driver, it is worth noting their lap times and experience level. If I handed my car to a novice in 100ºF conditions with R1S, and they were at Buttonwillow running 2:08 laps, I'll bet the engine and tires could actually run for 30 minutes without issue. But when trying to get a 1:48 at Buttonwillow in 85ºF, the engine would get through 2 laps and call it quits. You'd never even find the limit of the tires as far as knowing their potential to run in the heat. My point is, that advice of this nature can be situational.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by FrostyAZ

I am trying to do everything I can to keep temps down, ceramic coated headers/X pipe

besides keeping temps down, is there any benefit to having hotter exhaust gasses? for example, if the headers are containing the heat better, i have read that it helps exhaust gasses move faster. i have no idea if this is true, a theory, or a marginal speed secret from the high-end guys...

also on the subject of heat shields, have you heard of teknofibra? i'm not sure how others stack up, but i was blown away when i discovered it.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

dogbone, I'm surprised you aren't running the full d088 combo. If anyone can use it, that's you!

hehe I've seen several people upgrade various coolers in their cars with minimal-to-no benefit. I've even seen people add ADDITIONAL coolers and still no luck. So, honestly, I've been very dubious about the claims regarding what these coolers can do. That is why I made such a big deal about installing before-and-after-cooling oil temp gauges on the DCT cooler setup. And I waited to install the aftermarket unit until I had run the OEM setup several times with the temp gauges installed, so I could have a baseline I could compare to. I have said so many times in the past, I hate "butt-dyno" testimonials. They mean nothing to me. And there's lots of that out there. And to make it worse, some of the claims from the manufacturers of these radiators are simply useless-----you get an unquantifiable % change of some parameter, or some crappy chart shows just a few degrees difference under some very unknown circumstance.

it's not hard to measure the effectiveness of these radiators. As a vendor, it would take minimal resources to test the items if you really wanted to----temp gauges, a track day, and someone to change between one radiator and another quickly. That's not much commitment. I suspect that most of the coolers don't do much better than the OEM pieces, so they don't want to post any hard info. How many companies are willing to say, "we went to Laguna Seca at XºF air temps and drove X number of laps, recorded XºF temps on the specific gauge on the OEM setup, and then immediately switched to our super-duper cooler and did the same. Here are the results." Ummm I don't see anyone doing it. C'mon, I'm a nobody, and I've been able to post hard data about this topic.

As far as the do88 offerings, they seem nice, but they haven't really been around that long. I don't normally jump that fast on things like that. I have found that in motorsport, being an early adopter can lead to a fair amount of pain. Ask me how I know.....

Anyway, when another forum member here put up some hard data about the changes he was seeing on his DCT oil temp gauge, I became interested.

Honestly, some other brands that advertise one more row of tubes or a few more fins or whatever.....how the heck is that going to lead to some miraculous difference than stock? From what I've seen it usually doesn't. Something has to be really different.

One of the shops I work with noted that the BMW OEM coolers are very light, and that lightness is an important piece of the puzzle because light metal can shed heat quickly. He noted that some aftermarket pieces seemed heavy by comparison and he figured they may not shed heat as efficiently as a result. I don't know.....I'm no expert on this. Never pretended to be. Before replacing any other radiators on my car, I need to hear a string of solid success stories from people running fast laps.

Initially, I would say I'm happy with my do88 DCT cooler as far as temps I see on the DCT oil temp gauges I installed. But, it still didn't prevent a double upshift last Friday at Buttonwillow that cost me a new personal best. (I talked and showed data about this on my build thread this week.) So, where does that leave me? Do I have a software problem in the car? Why couldn't I get cleanly through 2 hot laps without getting 2 double upshifts in the second lap?

[SYT_Shadow]

I agree. I also dislike butt dyno information.

I upgraded the whole caboodle with do88 after reading your review. I was under the impression you had done the whole thing, not only the DCT cooler.

I completely agree that the onus of proof is on the vendor. The lack of scientific data is appalling.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

besides keeping temps down, is there any benefit to having hotter exhaust gasses? for example, if the headers are containing the heat better, i have read that it helps exhaust gasses move faster. i have no idea if this is true, a theory, or a marginal speed secret from the high-end guys...

also on the subject of heat shields, have you heard of teknofibra? i'm not sure how others stack up, but i was blown away when i discovered it.

I'm doing headers in my car soon and wondering if I should get them ceramic coated first

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I upgraded the whole caboodle with do88 after reading your review. I was under the impression you had done the whole thing, not only the DCT cooler.

I completely agree that the onus of proof is on the vendor. The lack of scientific data is appalling.

Ah, no---I just did the DCT cooler for now. And there is no doubt at all that it cools better than OEM. I'll wait awhile to see if the do88 oil cooler and coolant radiator have any effect for others that have taken the leap. If you have an AIM Solo DL tied into the CAN bus, it's quite easy to track the oil and coolant temps. The AIM collects all that data, plus it tracks the ambient air temps, so it's super easy to compare in the AIM software. I would love it it if someone would post some comparisons.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by dogbone

Ah, no---I just did the DCT cooler for now. And there is no doubt at all that it cools better than OEM. I'll wait awhile to see if the do88 oil cooler and coolant radiator have any effect for others that have taken the leap. If you have an AIM Solo DL tied into the CAN bus, it's quite easy to track the oil and coolant temps. The AIM collects all that data, plus it tracks the ambient air temps, so it's super easy to compare in the AIM software. I would love it it if someone would post some comparisons.

Yes, I have AIM tied to the canbus. The thing is I don't have anything else to compare to so I'm not sure it's useful.

If both cars were DCT and only one had do88 goodies it would be easier to compare apples to apples

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Yes, I have AIM tied to the canbus. The thing is I don't have anything else to compare to so I'm not sure it's useful.

If both cars were DCT and only one had do88 goodies it would be easier to compare apples to apples

The best would be to compare data in the same car. Did you save sessions from before the coolers were installed?

Here's what I would do. Let's say I have the do88 stuff installed now:

-I would look at the weather temps for my upcoming track day. Let's say it was going to be 75ºF high.
-I would look in my archived AIM sessions at the same track on the OEM cooling setup and look for a day with similar weather temps and then identify a session where you ran for a decent number of hot laps.
-If possible, I would try to run the same kind of tire as the OEM laps.
-Let's say on the third session of that OEM day, it was 72ºF and you ran 6 hot laps and several were good laps. Let's say you ran several laps around 2:03 at this track.
-At some point in my upcoming track day, I would try to go out when the air temps are in the low 70º's F and run several similar 2:03 laps and do 6 hot laps and exit the track.

I think the AIM software would give you a pretty clear indication of what's going on.

This doesn't have to be a 100% scientific experiment performed in a lab. If things are working as we all hope with the do88, you should be able to see a drop in Oil and Water temps in the AIM software.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by dogbone

The best would be to compare data in the same car. Did you save sessions from before the coolers were installed?

Here's what I would do. Let's say I have the do88 stuff installed now:

-I would look at the weather temps for my upcoming track day. Let's say it was going to be 75ºF high.
-I would look in my archived AIM sessions at the same track on the OEM cooling setup and look for a day with similar weather temps and then identify a session where you ran for a decent number of hot laps.
-If possible, I would try to run the same kind of tire as the OEM laps.
-Let's say on the third session of that OEM day, it was 72ºF and you ran 6 hot laps and several were good laps. Let's say you ran several laps around 2:03 at this track.
-At some point in my upcoming track day, I would try to go out when the air temps are in the low 70º's F and run several similar 2:03 laps and do 6 hot laps and exit the track.

I think the AIM software would give you a pretty clear indication of what's going on.

This doesn't have to be a 100% scientific experiment performed in a lab. If things are working as we all hope with the do88, you should be able to see a drop in Oil and Water temps in the AIM software.

Unfortunately the do88 stuff went onto a car which has never been tracked. All the data I have is for my original E92 which is still on stock coolers

The best I'll be able to do is compare temps of the DCT d088 equipped car with the 6MT stock E92 car. If the temps of the DCT are equal or lower than the 6MT I will be happy.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Unfortunately the do88 stuff went onto a car which has never been tracked. All the data I have is for my original E92 which is still on stock coolers

The best I'll be able to do is compare temps of the DCT d088 equipped car with the 6MT stock E92 car. If the temps of the DCT are equal or lower than the 6MT I will be happy.

Ahhhh.....well, I would still be very curious to know if you go out on a similar temp day, at the same track and run a similar number of laps at a similar lap time what the results would be compared to an old session.

Hey, it's better than nothing. And it CERTAINLY is better than the lack of info that we've gotten from vendors!

[FrostyAZ]

I have heard there is a potential for better exhaust scavenging but my primary reason for coating them was to help with underhood temps.

Originally Posted by roastbeef

besides keeping temps down, is there any benefit to having hotter exhaust gasses? for example, if the headers are containing the heat better, i have read that it helps exhaust gasses move faster. i have no idea if this is true, a theory, or a marginal speed secret from the high-end guys...

also on the subject of heat shields, have you heard of teknofibra? i'm not sure how others stack up, but i was blown away when i discovered it.

[FrostyAZ]

Some updated pics, definetely taking much longer than planned but everything is turning out really nice and clean.

[FrostyAZ]

Corner worker fire and kill switch on drivers side.

[FrostyAZ]

CF trunk and wing mount.

[warp10]

[Leglessracing]

Originally Posted by FrostyAZ

CF trunk and wing mount.

Loving the build, which wing are you using?

[FrostyAZ]

Thanks and likewise, enjoy seeing your progress as well. I am using the Flossman DTM style wing. I bought it along with many other items from CA in the UK. Roy is a good guy to work with. Happy with all of the Flossman parts except their splitter. I ordered it with brake ducts and it came with separate ducts but not cut out in the splitter, kind of frustrating. Here is a pic with the wing mounted now.

Originally Posted by Leglessracing

Loving the build, which wing are you using?

[Leglessracing]

I was looking at the flossman trunk but went a different way. I need to be able to generate a little more downforce with more adjustability and the flossman wing just wasn't enough. Still kept with the front wings from them though. Roy is great to deal with too, never had any issues through CA. I'll be keeping an eye on your build seeing how it goes

[FrostyAZ]

How is your build progressing? When did you start and when do you think it will be complete?

Originally Posted by Leglessracing

I was looking at the flossman trunk but went a different way. I need to be able to generate a little more downforce with more adjustability and the flossman wing just wasn't enough. Still kept with the front wings from them though. Roy is great to deal with too, never had any issues through CA. I'll be keeping an eye on your build seeing how it goes

[Leglessracing]

Originally Posted by FrostyAZ

How is your build progressing? When did you start and when do you think it will be complete?

It's coming along, currently the motorsport loom, hand controls, fuse box and Bosch motorsport abs are all being completed, so it's not looking like much is being done. With any luck within a month I'll be. Out doing a shake down! Fingers crossed anyway

[FrostyAZ]

A few more updated pics. Hoping that we are finally a week or two away.

[FrostyAZ]

Front end almost done