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12-06-2014, 03:26 PM | #111 | |
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No human is able to replicate the electronic systems (like ABS and TC) ability to exploit available traction. Agree on ABS calibration. But since the car used was a race car, I suspect the ABS is set up for sticky tires and good brakes |
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12-06-2014, 05:44 PM | #112 | |
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12-06-2014, 06:35 PM | #113 | ||
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12-06-2014, 11:44 PM | #114 | |
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While this is a BMW forum, and I drove them for years and still do, one thing I'll say for Ford is that they are shockingly reasonable on stuff like this. I can buy a plug-and-play replacement ABS controller for my car from Ford for about $400 with the racing slick calibration used in the factory race cars. BMW could do this, but they don't. If you're not a pro race team, you just can't get this stuff. |
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12-07-2014, 01:09 PM | #115 | |
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Have you tested brakes with for instance a MAHA decelerometer? I have done this frequently and on many different cars. On the graph of measured deceleration you will see that deceleration rises and peaks, before settling at a lower level until standstill. On a old car with ABS, the deceleration settles at a noticeable lower level than at peak initial deceleration (optimal or treshold deceleration). On a modern car, the drop under ABS braking is very small compared to the initial highest deceleration. Today the ABS operates at such a high frequency of on/off that it's impossible for any human to replicate by treshold braking. IMO ABS brakes today IS effectively replicating treshold braking. BTW, Ayrton Senna won all of his championships in F1 cars with ABS brakes... -1988 McLaren MP 4/4 in which he took his first championship -1989 and 1990 McLaren MP 4/5 (1989 Prost WC and 1990 Senna WC) -1991 McLaren MP 4/6 ABS was banned after the 1993 season. I'm sure that if Senna thought he could brake better without ABS he would have had it taken off his car. And, even F1 drivers struggle with locking brakes and getting flat spots on their tires. I'm pretty sure they all would have said yes to ABS from a pure performance perspective as that woul eliminate a few destroyed tires, massive vibrations and early pit stops due to flat spotted tires... |
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12-07-2014, 03:35 PM | #116 | |
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12-07-2014, 04:23 PM | #117 |
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I guess this goes back to the argument of DSC in M mode which showed to intervene even though it wasn't noticeable. The question is...how good was the ABS system? Even if ABS could shorten the stopping distance...then is it a good comparison to test a system designed for 4 axles on only 2 axles?
I have no answer for that. Interesting discussion.
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12-08-2014, 03:43 PM | #118 |
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I have no data to back it up but my opinion is the M3's system is very very effective (both before and after my Stoptechs) in straight-line braking, but starts to pulse the inside front a little sooner under trail braking now that I have the stoptechs. A full-ABS stop paints two faint black stripes (but no smoke or lockup) on concrete in my car, that tells me it's allowing a good amount of slip without lockup. Optimal? Probably not, few street systems are all the way there to max threshold braking all the time in all situations for all tires because they have to handle a huge range of conditions and tire selections safely, but the M3's ABS is one of the best systems I've played with. It handles a wheel in the air, pogoing, racing tires, weird sizes, etc. very well for a factory system. I think pad compound difference is more to blame for the difference Iv'e noticed with the Stoptechs
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12-09-2014, 01:42 PM | #119 |
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BBK's are definitely engineered to provide fade-resistant braking power lap after lap. The best possible setup for a fast track probably can't be all things to all drivers. If you don't track, a track setup is probably worse for your safety. I personally don't track so I am happy with the stock units (minus their weak looking calipers) since they can stock my car in those unexpectedly hard stops. The last thing I want is a nice looking BBK that I can't utilize that also takes time to warm up and is noisy and chattery.
This is not to say that on the times I am on mulholland dr fun a fun drive, two things start to heat up really fast. My brakes and my oil. My stock setup will get mushy pretty quickly and the pedal will travel further and the pads will feel grittier and choppy as everything gets hotter. Our brakes are a compromise just like every single other aspect of our car is a compromise. Who knows about the Brembo kit in the test...all I know is that they seem to have tried to cancel out variables and control the test very tightly. I just see a lot of people here getting really upset over one test. I see vendors getting hyper defensive over a product they sell frequently and a lot of people who own brembos getting upset. Relax...it's one publication. If EVO or some other guys did this same exact test you can almost guarantee they would not provide a consistent review. It's just a desperate when people get so butt hurt and defensive over some test results. |
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12-09-2014, 02:10 PM | #120 |
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I have the Brembo 380 kit and could care less what people on the forums think. My kit has performed flawlessly in the 30 or so track days I've run them in. No issues with fade, pedal feel is always consistent, and I've had complete confidence in them from day 1.
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12-18-2014, 11:49 AM | #121 | |
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01-09-2015, 09:37 PM | #122 |
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I worked for Stoptech for 13.5 years. I'm not surprised of the results of this test. That team tries its hardest to deliver and rarely fails. Never once has this company gone and tried to create a false forum user name to bad mouth a company just because it has created a healthy competition in the market like some other companies- ehhem! The Director of Engineering is by far one of the most dedicated automotive weenie-heads I have ever met. As for the product, it is constantly being pushed to the limits on racetracks all over the world. I know this post comes from a prideful place within, but hey, I'm taking the opportunity to bask a little. Thanks.
Enjoy those ST BBKs. It puts a little smile on my face for doing my job well. |
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01-10-2015, 10:47 AM | #123 |
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This pretty much does not surprise me at all. Brembo is never the first name track junkies turn to. Big name, but the top 3 in the test would have always been the only three I would have looked at WITHOUT this test.
Cheers, e46e92
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01-10-2015, 10:52 AM | #124 | |
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I'm not gonna sit here and justify my brembo kit (I know my set up isn't the end all solution), but just throwing that out there.
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01-10-2015, 06:00 PM | #125 |
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cater to the masses and look pretty?
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01-11-2015, 09:07 AM | #126 | ||
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Kind of like Recaro as well. A product that works well with a premium price for the name. But I'm sure car manufacturers use Brembos because of the name recognition to sell products. Do you think Stoptech brakes would be a big seller for the car buying majority (which is not us)?
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01-19-2015, 06:12 PM | #127 |
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I'm still gonna get the Brembo 380 kit. lol
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01-19-2015, 06:15 PM | #128 | |
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01-20-2015, 04:13 AM | #129 |
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UPDATE: In the last issue of Auto Bild Sportscars there was a letter in the "Readers letters" section that took up the BBK test.
The editor replied that they assumed that "Brembo had delivered the wrong kit which was the reason behind the disastrous results" and the they would do a new test with the proper Brembo BBK that would be published later. |
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01-20-2015, 11:05 AM | #130 | |
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01-20-2015, 03:46 PM | #131 |
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Depends if you let perple derple bleed them.
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01-20-2015, 05:20 PM | #132 | |
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Last edited by radiantm3; 01-20-2015 at 05:25 PM.. |
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