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08-30-2013, 12:07 PM | #111 | |
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I do have access to a few different sets of used factory bearings, but it will take a few weeks before I'm available to go take a look. When I do, I'll report back. I'll be able to take pictures of whatever the shop has in the way of replaced bearings. They are doing an S65 rod bearing replacement next week themselves. If you're right about no color on factory bearings, then I'll bet Kawasaki is right about blue being +0.0005 (I think he meant 0.0005 not 0.0010), and red being +0.0000 and realoem just being a bit ambiguious about the rod bearing color designation. |
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08-30-2013, 12:21 PM | #112 |
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But then I found this:
Using a clean-room wipe and isopropyl alcohol, carefully clean each rod bearing (see Photo 4). Install each bearing into the rod cap and rod half. Depending upon which engine you have, there may be upper and lower bearing shell halves (blue for the top side and red for the lower side near the rod cap).http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/tech...d-Bearings.htm |
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08-30-2013, 12:23 PM | #113 | ||
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Not sure if this was posted yet, but posting to help aid in a forum search at a later date. BMW OEM ROD BEARING PART NUMBERS 11 24 7 841 703 - Bearing shell, blue 53,00MM (0) (old part number 11 24 7 838 089) 11 24 7 841 702 - Bearing shell, red 53,00MM (0) (old part number 11 24 7 838 088) Quote:
We're also going to tear down our shop M3 @ 18,000mi in the upcoming weeks and get an oil sample to make an early mileage comparison. We'll be sure to post results when completed.
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08-30-2013, 04:17 PM | #114 |
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So then with the actual factory spec of blue on top and red on the bottom, the space within the rod is not round for the crank journal to start with? It seems that red+red and then M0-40 is the best bandit we have for the time being. Do you have any recommendation or knowledge of the WPC process that has kinda flow into these threads? If going with this shot peening process, do we do both side of the bearing or just the side that contacts the journal? Thinking maybe to get the red bearings for both top and bottom and have them treated with the WPC process. Thanks in advance.
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08-30-2013, 04:45 PM | #115 |
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Had a request to post a picture of the markings of the rod bearings:
While there is no paint designation, clearly the 088/089 part numbers can be seen.
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08-30-2013, 04:48 PM | #116 | ||
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Going from a red to a yellow is .0005 but you will only gain .00025. Likewise going from red to blue will be .0005 tighter not .001 Quote:
From our extensive testing there is just nothing to coated bearings. Coated cams, lifters and other parts are fine but crankshafts and bearings just never work out. Problem is most of the coating ends up coming off anyway and it serves no purpose but wasting money. There is absolutely no need for a coated rod bearing if everything else is right clearance wise. Now being we are too tight does it help, I guess that is yet to be seen. It is very rare that you will see the paint on the rod bearings because they are rotating in the oil which washes the paint off. Sometimes the mains will retain the paint because the oil runs across them but they are not spun in the oil like the rods.
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08-30-2013, 05:28 PM | #117 | |
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08-30-2013, 05:41 PM | #118 | |
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08-30-2013, 05:50 PM | #119 |
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Got a lot more information. There have apparently been three different S65 crankshafts, and two sets of connecting rods. Maybe somebody with better BMW connections (hint, hint, Tom@EAS) can fill in the blanks. You will be surprised, I even found +.001 bearings and they are currently available!
BTW, this wasn't easy to track down. Had to look in catalogs out of country, etc. Called local dealer and confirmed they are all valid part numbers, and +size bearings are still available using these part numbers. Crankshafts: 11 21 7 838 641 Crankshaft, Ended (no date given), no weight given 11 21 7 841 658 Crankshaft, Ended (October 2008), 20.400 kg 11 21 0 443 639 Crankshaft, Current production, 23.840 kg Main Bearings: 11 21 7 841 488 Main Bearing Top, Yellow, Ended (October 2008) 11 21 7 841 609 Main Bearing Top, Yellow, Replaced 488 bearing 11 21 7 841 489 Main Bearing Top, Green, Ended (October 2008) 11 21 7 841 610 Main Bearing Top, Green, Replaced 489 bearing 11 21 7 841 490 Main Bearing Top, Violet, Ended (October 2008) 11 21 7 841 611 Main Bearing Top, Violet, Replaced 490 bearing 11 21 7 841 483 Main Bearing Bottom, Yellow, Ended (October 2008) 11 21 7 841 605 Main Bearing Bottom, Yellow, Replaced 483 bearing 11 21 7 841 484 Main Bearing Bottom, Green, Ended (October 2008) 11 21 7 841 606 Main Bearing Bottom, Green, Replaced 484 bearing 11 21 7 841 485 Main Bearing Bottom, Violet, Ended (October 2008) 11 21 7 841 607 Main Bearing Bottom, Violet, Replaced 485 bearing Rod Bearings: 11 24 7 838 089 Rod Bearing Blue, 53.000 mm, +0.000 mm, Ended (no date given, but hints at July '08) 11 24 7 841 703 Rod Bearing Blue, 53.000 mm, +0.000 mm, Replacement for 089 bearing. 11 24 7 838 091 Rod Bearing Blue, 52.750 mm, +0.250 mm, Currently available 11 24 7 838 088 Rod Bearing Red, 53.000 mm, +0.000 mm, Ended (no date given, but hints at July '08) 11 24 7 841 702 Rod Bearing Red, 53.000 mm, +0.000 mm, Replacement for 088 bearing. 11 24 7 838 090 Rod Bearing Red, 52.750 mm, +0.250 mm, Currently available I have verbal confirmation that some bearings replaced at another SoCal shop have 088/089 stamped on the back. So this would be pretty strong evidence along with information posted by Tom & B767capt that the rod bearings have indeed been superseded since production began. Most likely they were superseded in October 2008 when the crankshaft and main bearings were superseded. I will take pictures when I see these bearings in person. Last edited by regular guy; 08-30-2013 at 05:57 PM.. Reason: Added more info on rod bearing sizes from catalog. |
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08-30-2013, 05:55 PM | #120 | |
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08-30-2013, 05:55 PM | #121 |
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08-30-2013, 05:57 PM | #122 | |
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24 G82 Xdrive Comp
16 F82 M4 DCT - ZCP - JB4 - 556WHP / 570WTQ 08 ESS VT3-750 - 60-130MPH 6.14s - 10.81 @ 135.13 MPH 690WHP/463WTQ 08 E92 M3 - 1/2 Mile Trap Speed WR - 174.13 MPH |
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08-30-2013, 08:57 PM | #125 |
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BMW only shows (14) of the 091s and (6) of the 090s in the country. Not even a full set.
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08-30-2013, 09:29 PM | #126 |
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[QUOTE=regular guy;14589440]
11 24 7 838 088 Rod Bearing Red, 53.000 mm, +0.000 mm, Ended (no date given, but hints at July '08) 11 24 7 841 702 Rod Bearing Red, 53.000 mm, +0.000 mm, Replacement for 088 bearing. 11 24 7 838 090 Rod Bearing Red, 52.750 mm, +0.250 mm, Currently available QUOTE] depending on how they are figuring the clearance, the 52.75 looks like thinner bearings but the +.250 tends to believe less clearance. Have to wait for some to get measured on that one.
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08-30-2013, 09:51 PM | #127 | |
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Quote:
http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E9...earing_shells/ |
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08-30-2013, 11:12 PM | #128 | |
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I'm guessing sctochbrite will thin down the bearings a little? .
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08-30-2013, 11:27 PM | #129 | |
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[QUOTE=kawasaki00;14590302]
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08-31-2013, 02:39 AM | #130 |
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Not that it's completely relevant to this thread, but what the hell would account for a 3.44 kg difference in crank weight for the same engine?
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08-31-2013, 07:01 AM | #131 | |
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http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E9...earing_shells/ 11 21 7 838 641 19.900 kg / 43.872 lb 11 21 7 841 658 18.960 kg / 41.8 lb 11 21 0 443 639 18.600 kg / 41.006 lb
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09-02-2013, 06:08 PM | #132 |
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