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04-07-2021, 05:13 AM | #111 | |
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I'd add... when we see "M-Sport", it's just a trim level. |
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04-07-2021, 05:57 AM | #112 | |
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I think they hold their own place, particularly as in average conditions they can outpace the comparable M cars to 60mph (i.e. non-competition or 5 / 8 series variants which are well over £100k). |
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04-07-2021, 06:15 AM | #113 | |
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The M-sort trim is also market influenced. Here in the UK, for example, the F30 340i was only available in M-Sport trim. Many engine levels are available in different trims. Same key 'mechanicals', can be optioned. Like having an SE model with M-sport suspension and sport seats. Therefore a very similar drive in the SE, (identical performance) to the M-sport trim level. I view cars like the current M340i as an "M-Lite". |
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04-07-2021, 07:11 AM | #114 |
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The real deal will always be a complete sports car package.
Many manufacturers sprinkle their sports car model appeal down to other models. Some with real performance upgrades and some are just cosmetic. M-Sport S-Line R-Design F-Sport AMG Line etc. |
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04-07-2021, 07:35 AM | #115 | |
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I think back to when, with Honda, "Si" was just trim (seats, badges, etc), and it was pretty sad. Gone are those days, thankfully. |
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04-07-2021, 08:20 AM | #116 |
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I've always felt a real ///M car is a car with a real M engine. M engines to me are only the ones that can make 100hp/Litre naturally! I own a F82 M4 now but miss my E46 M3 with that free spirited S54 engine. Turbo is nice and all for that initial torque and fuel efficiency but it's missing the soul that the S54 had.
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04-07-2021, 08:57 AM | #117 | |
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I know in the UK some M-Sport models, in a particular line-up, would have options for upgraded brakes, or packages with upgrades. Some originally optioned items can become standard fitment over time. What also adds some confusion, is the Mxxx models are often referred to by BMW as BMW M Performance (models) Automobiles. Then we have the M Performance Parts catalogues, allowing a 'mix and match' array of options, which can be added to standard cars. No wonder users can get so up tight about their specific car, once we move away from the obvious 'full fat' M-cars. |
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04-07-2021, 09:20 AM | #118 |
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It's inclusion, after all. BMW is as much of a performance brand as it is a luxury brand to many, so if they can't quite afford the M, these little bits help them feel included. I get it. But yeah, I wish there was either M, or not-M.
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04-07-2021, 09:23 AM | #119 |
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Sadly was headed back to work yesterday from lunch, on I-95 S between McNab & Commercial in Fort Lauderdale. Passed a black F10 535i w/black wheels and blacked out badges, with a really sweet ///M decal on the base of the trunk, just to the left of the passenger side tail light.
Made me shake my head in disgust.
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04-07-2021, 09:33 AM | #120 | |
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2012 F30 (328i with very minimal options) 2015 F30 (328i) Sport Line (heavily optioned) 2018 G30 (M550i) Fully optioned My understanding of what an M-Sport is, is that it's a package that can be added to most cars that is primarily an appearance package. Yes, it includes the bigger brakes, but other than that, no real performance upgrades. My 2015 Sport Line F30 did not have the M-Sport package, but rather Sport brakes and a Sport mode for the transmission. It had a bit thicker steering wheel than my first car and some nice Sport Line wheels. My 2018 M550i is referred to as an M-Performance car, which has all the M-Sport appearance goodies along with some added performance (the twin-turbo 4.4L V8 being the most significant of those). Having come from a long stretch of Mercedes cars, I get the sensitivity of the owners of the top tier badges like M and AMG. My last Mercedes was an SL-500 with "AMG package". It was NOT an AMG car, but simply had a lot of appearance goodies from the AMG cars. It did not have any AMG badges anywhere on the car. This, is a distinction I find interesting between Mercedes and BMW. Mercedes doesn't use the AMG badges except on the AMG cars, whereas BMW is freely using the M on all sorts of stuff. It's no wonder that many BMW owners can't distinguish the products. I'm sure the M5 owners in 2018 were livid when the 2018 M550i was faster than the M5 that year. True M car owners should just relax and know that their cars are incredible racing machines. You have the opportunity to embarrass the "inferior" M-labeled cars at every stop light. |
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04-07-2021, 10:45 AM | #121 |
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Not just about cost. I wanted a xDrive Touring so no option yet. I'll look at the M3 Touring when it's out next year and will consider as long as the comfort adaptive isn't too stiff!
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04-07-2021, 11:05 AM | #122 |
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04-07-2021, 12:06 PM | #124 | |
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https://www.mercedes-benzsouthwest.c...he-difference/ |
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04-07-2021, 12:19 PM | #125 |
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The 1M being the exception I presume
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04-07-2021, 12:21 PM | #126 | |
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Much like the M purists, to me an AMG means that the engine is hand-built by one person. In the end, it's not about the badge, but what the badge represents that matters. |
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04-07-2021, 12:28 PM | #127 |
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Absolutely
There is also an E12 5 series M535i (m90 engine) that belongs in the list. As it dates back all the way to 1980 And imho the bmw 2002 turbo and E9 CSL also belong in that list as the granddaddys
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04-07-2021, 01:27 PM | #128 | |
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So yes, I think they hold their own place... on the street. With some modifications they can hold their place on the track as well, but then you are sacrificing the daily driveability that the car excels and still with compromises compared to it's M counterpart.
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04-07-2021, 02:56 PM | #129 | |
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04-07-2021, 04:35 PM | #130 | ||
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In the end though, it just seems to be about bragging rights for something they can't really use unless they are breaking the law. It just seems a bit meaningless to me.
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04-10-2021, 12:24 PM | #131 |
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The BMW enthusiast world collectively gasped when BMW announced that M-Sport would become more than just a trim. And on exhale, in chorus, “the M is just for marketing now!”
I’m seeing a lot of defenders in here now. So what’s changed that perception? Any specific car? M240? M550? M340? M440? |
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04-10-2021, 12:36 PM | #132 | |
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If Dodge started a Hellcat sports trim and started slapping the Hellcat badge all over every Dodge model with 20 inch wheels and a factory tuned 6 cylinder the “Dodge guys” with ‘real’ Hellcats would be up in arms. American car buyers are some of the biggest badge worshippers on the planet. The fact that you call them “Dodge guys” is very revealing. Last edited by OSee; 04-10-2021 at 12:41 PM.. |
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